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Thread: Does the AI ever attack you?

  1. #1
    Lt. General iron0037's Avatar
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    Does the AI ever attack you?

    At this point, I've logged several hundred years of game play in versions 1.05c, 1.04b, and 1.03. I've played exclusively as independent realms: Gwynedd, Galicia, and Nicaea (aka Byzantine Empire post Fourth Crusade).

    How many times has the AI attacked me in all this play? 3. I was attacked twice by Muslim nations early in my Galicia game and once by England in a game as Gwynedd. And that's it. Are other players experiencing this?

    It seems to me that the AI is hesitant to attack once your realm reaches a certain manpower level. Unless it sees that it has significant manpower superiority, it'll take a pass. There appears to be no strategic thinking on the part of the AI. It doesn't say "hey, the Byzantines are tied up fighting the Latin Empire, maybe it's a good time for some Turkish expansion." It doesn't think "Galicia has exhausted all its levies and angered its vassals: time for some sweet revenge."

    The lack of any threat of reprisal from the AI makes for a rather boring game. Once you master character opinions, it's nothing but endless expansion on all fronts against heathens, those with the misfortune of being in your de jure border, and anyone you can find a claimant to invite. I would find CK2 far more compelling if I wasn't dragged into this perpetual grind.

    Some specific suggestions for improvement:
    1. AI should consider whether or not a realm is at war with another nation when considering declaring war. When another nation is at war, it should pounce.
    2. AI should consider manpower levels and vassal opinions when declaring war. When they are low, it should pounce.
    3. AI should consider likelihood of third parties joining their war when declaring. Third parties should be inclined to join a war when it opens opportunity to attack a foe it would be unable to tackle on its own.
    4. There needs to be some kind of warmongerer penalty. Opinions of adjacent foreign powers should go down as you gobble up neighbors. There needs to be something akin to EU3's Dishonorable Scum CB.
    Any other ideas?
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  2. #2
    Completely agree. AI doesn't hit me when I'm weak, which I was relieved about the first few times it happened but now it's getting boring! Playing as the Byzantines there have been a couple of massive civil wars which brought the empire to it's knees, yet nobody from outside joined in.

  3. #3
    Major MartinSWE's Avatar
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    I partly agree but I see a few flaws with your ideas.

    1. The 'other' AI-nation would still need a valid CB to 'pounce' on a neighbour at war. Creating a new CB to enable this would make it extremly booring/impossible to play as a small nation (County in Ireland and the likes).
    2. Agree but still the AI needs a valid CB to attack you.
    3. I think it already does. At least that explains why all nations in Iberia are so agressive.
    4. I agree on that something needs to be done to limit 'agressive expansion' but a 'dishonorable scum CB' as in EU III would make it booring/impossible to play/have fun with a small nation (county in Ireland and the likes). Also note that in CK II it is impossible to wage without a 'valid' CB so in a sense it´s impossible to be considered 'dishonorable' by other nobles as a result of a war.

    On 4 I think extensive warfare should put a much bigger penalty on relations with your vassals then it currently does and that revolt risk should increase in your provinces as a result of the 'lowborns' being fed up in getting killed for the Glory of their Ruler.
    "The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism—ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power" - Franklin. D Roosevelt, 1938

  4. #4
    Lt. General iron0037's Avatar
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    The AI not attacking the player is sort of a corollary to the bigger problem of expansion being too easy. I totally agree with you that there need to be fixes on that front. Suggestions have been put forth in other threads, namely decreasing troop reinforcement rates and further penalizing vassal relations for constant fighting. Combined with some AI intelligence that encourages them to attack when this happens, the game will be vastly improved.

    I also agree with you that suggestions 1 and 2 only work with a valid CB. But there are many situations where the AI has opted not to use his Holy War CB on me in such situations. In my Nicaea game, Egypt is nearly as large as me and yet they never attack when I'm engaged against Hungary or Bulgaria.

    Suggestion 4 was a possible way of providing further CBs to open up further examples of the AI capitalizing on player vulnerability. I don't necessarily advocate that it work exactly like EU3's dishonorable scum. Perhaps there could be a random event that triggers every time you declare war. If you get it, you gain a trait called "Warmonger" that gives a CB to everyone that's similar to the Excommunication CB. A corresponding random event could remove the trait when you're at peace. You'd have to tweak the MTTT and particulars of the CB for game balance.
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  5. #5
    this may be the case since 1.5, but playing galicia on 1.4, the AI did attack me when i was weak and i would have been defeated were it not for mercenaries. especially mauretania took advantage of my weakened position thanks to their claims on granada and murcia.

    ive started a new galicia game on 1.5 though and havent been attacked yet. i didnt have any moments of crisis either, so i think the AI is doing quite well actually. once you have +20 provinces, its good to have an AI that thinks twice before attacking you. but id agree to make the AI a little more aggressive

  6. #6
    Colonel Diet of Worms's Avatar
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    I do agree that the AI is cautious, perhaps overly so.

    I don't think it is correct that it doesn't sense weakness - certainly I have been attacked when weak several times by an AI that has had a claim for some time. I've also noticed the AI seize the moment when I am beating up on a country to press its own claims on multiple occasions.

    I think it is just generally pretty cautious, so doesn't take what appear to be suitable openings.

  7. #7
    Major MartinSWE's Avatar
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    I think it may be a bad idea to tweak the game in order to make the HRE, Byzantium and the likes 'hard' to play since it would make 'smaller' nations close to impossible to 'succeed' or let alone survive with. The reason why Muslim majors might be cautious to attack Byzantium/Nicea or another christian powerhouse is becuase the AI knows that unless it secures a quick victory (unlikely) it will se it´s own nation torn apart by internal strife. The Muslim powerhouses (Egypt, the Caliphate and so on) where not really 'stable' in those days and it have been modelled into the game (perhaps a bit to well).
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  8. #8
    First Lieutenant BaronVonHarry's Avatar
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    Agree.

    Ive played through many different games across many different locations, racking up hundreds of years of game time. I have been attacked exactly 4 times. Twice by Muslim Iberia, once by France, once by Norway.

    Need more aggression by the AI! Even after my first game, I saw this as a problem. I was bummed that there wasn't a AI aggression setting like I have seen in other games. I want to FIGHT for my life, not just expand at my leisure.

  9. #9
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    I never allow AI to get marriage claims on anything so the only way they'd get a CB on me would be Holy or Fabricate
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  10. #10
    I've been attacked several times by France while putting down rebellions as England.

    First time was early-game (William the Conqueror's son) and they managed to take Normandy, Surrey, the Duchy of Norfolk, and a few minor baronies/bishoprics. Took me a few hundred years to build up enough power to take it all back, and I still haven't bothered to try for the baronies yet.

    The second time was much later in the game after I had built an empire in Spain and Denmark and had a clearly superior army and higher score than them. They waited till I got bogged down with rebellions with a low-diplomacy king, and then struck. Managed to beat them that time, though.

  11. #11
    Colonel Demi Moderator Pallen's Avatar
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    Try forming the Kingdom of Serbia from the year 1066 and stay independant. You'll see byzantine empire attack you, same goes for Hungary and Croatia :P Honestly if they attacked you more then a lot of you would probably rage quit xD
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  12. #12
    I've seen the AI do it to each other. Quite often when William I dies and his useless son Robert takes overs, you end up seeing civil wars hit the kingdom. When this happens other kingdoms seem to jump in and attack the severely weakend England. The worst I've seen was the Scottish king pressing his new claim for Northumberland, France pressing its claim for Maine and Denmark jumping in last to press its claim on the English crown. Quite a spectacle.

    Unfortunatly nothing quite so exciting has happened to me though.

  13. #13
    I constantly have the AI attacking during civil wars, rebellions and other moments of weakness. Most of the time they aren't directly targetting me though, they are trying to snatch a county or two from my weaker vassals. After which it is quite difficult to crush a rebellion when a large foreign power and the rebellious scum have armies that need to be dealt with.

    Of course I also try not to let the AI be in a position to declare war on me. I'm not sending claimants off to my enemies that might take advantage, so it has a much harder time finding a valid reason to declare war. It has just popped into my head that very rarely does anyone bother to do anything when I get excommunicated, which they could more often while my armies are busy showing the Pope what I think of his opinion of me.

  14. #14
    Lt. General iron0037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinSWE View Post
    I think it may be a bad idea to tweak the game in order to make the HRE, Byzantium and the likes 'hard' to play since it would make 'smaller' nations close to impossible to 'succeed' or let alone survive with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pallen View Post
    Try forming the Kingdom of Serbia from the year 1066 and stay independant.
    Quote Originally Posted by KingJH View Post
    When [civil wars hit a kingdom] other kingdoms seem to jump in and attack the severely weakend [realm].
    Certainly the AI is good at recognizing when it has a numerical advantage, and it (ruthlessly) capitalizes on the advantage. That's why so many wars break out on Day 1. And KingJH's observation is a good variant of such a situation. Presumably, the AI perceives you as weaker because it doesn't factor in the rebellious factions. I don't think tweaking things so that the big boys are threatened won't put the small fish at any greater a disadvantage than they already are...at least that would be my desire.
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  15. #15
    I get attacked all. the. time. Of course, I'm playing first as a Norse Duke and then as a Norse Sweden, but the AI often jumps on me when I'm in the middle of another war, or just because it's bigger than me. I think a lot of it has to do with how easy it is for the AI to understand the holy war mechanic (I'm stronger, I'm going to take your stuff) versus most of the other casus belli (I need to fabricate a claim, or create a title so I can press a de jure claim, or marry some half-wit so I can press HIS claim).

    But yeah, if you feel like the world's not dangerous enough for you, play a pagan.

  16. #16
    I get attacked all the damn time. All of it. If there's a time, I'm getting attacked. Especially if I'm (independent) around Denmark. Those guys are jerks.

    Do what the guy above me said and play Pagan or as Lubeck and try to stay independent. You will never know peace.

  17. #17
    Completely disagree with this post.

    I've been attacked 5 times in 120+ years as Lothian(now Scotland) in MP, Lost 3 defensive wars, losing a total of 2 territories and having a excomed king dethroned.

    I've also had probably dozens of large scale revolts or succession crisis, even lost a war of independence because I was never able to spare the troops to go fight the count.
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  18. #18
    That guy with the thing Dragnar's Avatar
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    I see the AI pouncing on opportunities all the time. I don't think it's too passive in that regard. In my opinion, the problem is that the AI never consiously works on getting CBs, so it's rare for it to actually be able to seize an opportunity.
    Playing in Ireland or the HRE means smooth sailing, as generally no neighbouring realm will ever have a CB against you, but playing in Spain, southern Italy or the Byzantines, I get attacked all the time.

  19. #19
    Field Marshal grommile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xGhost4000x View Post
    I've also had probably dozens of large scale revolts or succession crisis, even lost a war of independence because I was never able to spare the troops to go fight the count.
    Keep more gold on hand. Mercenaries are awesome.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by digital_soda View Post
    Do what the guy above me said and play Pagan.
    Are you guys using a mod or something, I can't seem to be able to start a game as Pagan. Or can I convert?

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