So I've been trying to play as the Ottoman Empire but every factory I build ends up bankrupt no matter what it is and what I do. Same thing when I play as Egypt. Even when I take into consideration the resources that are available in the region.So the question is, which factories should I build when playing as the Ottoman Empire and Egypt to build a strong industry? Subsidizing just doesn't work in the long run.
Don't build anything in the early period, it's too inefficient to stay above water. You should do it much later, when you have Literacy much improved, more NFs to convert POPs into workers, have built up your sphere and colonized Africa for even more resources, and got at least the basic efficiency (output/input/throughput) techs. Then you can get your industry off the ground and give the big guys a good run for their money.
In my Otto two games I started making the industry after colonization in Africa was well underway. With Egypt even later than that. So only after good 30-40 years into game. Before that I only had a symbolic single factory in each state, mostly wine and other "cheap luxuries".
The worst thing you can do in this game is to start with an underdeveloped backward country and immediately put a burden of subsidies on them (or if you cancel subsidies the burden of unemployment). Those guys are much happier and more productive in their RGOs in the first part of the game.
"Our officers of cavalry have acquired a trick of galloping at everything. They never consider the situation, never think of manoeuvring before an enemy, and never keep back or provide a reserve."
So literacy does have an impact on production? So basically the smartest thing to do is to not build any factories in the beginning, promote clergymen (2% in every region) and have max funding on education until my literacy is more than 50%?
Literacy impacts research and POP promotion. If you have low literacy, you research slower than everyone else, making it harder to get the techs that make industrialization profitable. And since POPs aren't promoting as much, getting clerks and capis is much more difficult. (Craftsmen will demote naturally as RGOs get efficient enough to fire people.)
The Ottomans also start with worse techs than other civilized countries, so you are trying to get past that problem, too.
All Hail Him,
The Secret Master
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Yes but theoretically if my factory is full of craftsmen and clerks it should be producing as much as its Western counterpart? Because none of my factories were making a profit even when I was focusing completely on commerce and industry techs and my factories were full.
Literacy has an impact on promotions and Clerks promoting from Craftsmen have impact on efficiency.
What I did with Ottos:
1. NF on Crats, aiming at 100% admin efficiency. Attacked Egypt from all sides (DONT disband your fleet, rather add a couple Clippers, just disable trade for artillery and clippers when you aren't building them to cut spending), wiped their army out and took like 5 regions from them. Sphered Persia (who attacked Egypt soon after with Free People to give me another region for free (lol)). Then started working on other easy countries around me and in Asia.
2. NF on Clergy, aiming at 4% but failing at that due to a large amount of states, and a huge amount of Egyptian POPs coming in ruining my %. 100% edu spending, like 91% crat spending, huge taxes all over.
3. Researched "Brazilian" way, Ideological Thought, Idealism, Empricism, Medicine and education efficiency techs up to Biologism. Then researched to get Suez (Inorganic Chemistry, Machine Tools, Iron Steamers). Built a solid navy with spare cash, just because I feel Ottos ought to, my British allies were dominating the seas either way.
4. Built an army of 100% infantry as that's the cheapest option for short wars and I knew I will only have RPs for Machine Guns in the first half of the game, stayed friendly with Russians (200 relations, they left me alone for some reason, busy in China I guess, but I'd totally beaten them up with all the extra POPs I conquered), finished Egypt off and then subjugated the Arabian Peninsula too (got lucky with CB creation, so why not).
5. Researched for colonization (Machine Guns, Medicine, Nationalism/Imperialism) and started a massive push into Africa with all my NFs and a loooot of troops. Conquered Ethiopia, Tunisia, Algeria, Sokoto, Transvaal (got conquest CB from them with a FUN event making me desire their diamonds). And well, colonized everything between.
6. When done with colonization prep and at good LIT finally, researched for industry efficiency (starting with +output techs, but also input/throughput and general RGO efficiency too) and switched NFs to capitalist when they were finally available for this task. Sphered a lot of countries in Asia (Siam, Dain Nam, Guangxi, Japan, Yunnan) by that time for resources.
7. Invested in the initial bunch of factories, then switched the NF to Clerks (#1 game) or Craftsmen (#2 game). Switched the party to liberals (Young Turks), cut rich and middle tax to 0% and let it roll for the rest of the game while I was having fun sinking Frenchie ships in the great wars for nothing.
I had better tech much faster with Clerks NFs, but landed with a much higher IND pumping Craftsmen, both let me finish 1st mostly via prestige from colonies though, so there isn't much difference between the two approaches. My early factories weren't empty and I had some basic good score even before working on efficiency, but all that was driven by subsidies.
"Our officers of cavalry have acquired a trick of galloping at everything. They never consider the situation, never think of manoeuvring before an enemy, and never keep back or provide a reserve."
ottoman also start with a large amount of artisans that compete with your factories
But that's a good thing. Artisans are more efficient than low tech factories, anyway. They can help generate some economic activity until you are at the point where industrialization makes sense.
All Hail Him,
The Secret Master
Note: If I write a post in this hideous color, I am speaking as a Demi-Moderator. Paying attention is strongly advised.
I feel like a lot of people starve their artisans with tariffs and huge middle taxes and then wonder why they can't make due, it's a business and you're attaching extra costs to it this way. If Artisans were treated like "small business" or "little factories", the middle tax dropped and tariffs kept around 0%, you could have them work just fine with a country that has enough raws to be processed.
Play as China, keep taxes low for middle and tariffs at 0%, let US d-bags (they are as they sphere China instead of South America) sphere you and watch your Artisans take over their market. ;-)
"Our officers of cavalry have acquired a trick of galloping at everything. They never consider the situation, never think of manoeuvring before an enemy, and never keep back or provide a reserve."
Sometimes factories cannot make profit because they cannot get their maintenance goods like machine parts and cement. This is common in the early game as machine parts are scarce on the world market. If you get your own machine parts factory this might solve some of the problems. Also check a common reason why factories cannot make profits is the shortage of input goods.
Interesting. Just bought AHD and it has been a long time since I've played Vicky 2... but I remember bureacrats not being terribly useful in vanilla. Has that changed? Are you suggesting a singe NF on them, or use all NF on them until you get to 100% admin efficiency? If that is the case, I also assume you suggest 100% funding for administration in the budget?Originally Posted by delra
I found that it's more efficient to not bother with setting down a Bureaucrat NF at all early on, as it's just a waste. Setting administration to 100% will make your bureaucracy gradually increase on it's own just as you would using the national focus to encourage bureaucrats. It's a good option early on, so you can free up a national focus for something useful like increasing literacy with clergymen.
In my first Ottoman game I used bureaucrats as suggested here. It worked out reasonably well: it took about 10 years to get my most populous states at 100% efficiency (though for some reason Albania stubbornly refused to improve administrative efficiency, barely moving about 25% for years). This, in turn, seemed to significantly help my budget.
How are you going to afford both high adm. spending and full ed. spending without good efficiency? You'll have to kill other stuff and max out taxes...
The question on NFing crats is tricky because low admin percentages make everything else more expensive, yet extra crats cost money.
What I do is determine whether I can afford things without the extra crats in 1836. If the answer is yes, I just use the admin slider to get the extra crats and focus on clergy. (I do this as Russia since I can just not bother buying clippers and artillery for my ridiculous navy.) If I am, say, Persia, it's easier to NF the crats first to get costs down, and then NF clergy.
If I am a really poor unciv, then the correct answer is to NF artisans first while keeping middle taxes and tariffs at zero. Then when I can afford it, tap that artisans for extra revenue while getting crats and clergy up.
All Hail Him,
The Secret Master
Note: If I write a post in this hideous color, I am speaking as a Demi-Moderator. Paying attention is strongly advised.
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