Chronicles of a new Divine Wind player

[Kepheren]

Well, I just got Divine Wind installed today after playing Htth for awhile. Figured I'd chronicle my experience here so that I could share the fun (and pain! ) and in the hopes that more experienced players would chime in occasionally to point out where I'm screwing up!

That said I picked one of my old favorites, Muscowy to start from. Right off the bat I notice that it loads a LOT faster than Htth ever did. Once it was up the map also looks a bajillion times better. One problem becomes readily apparent though. For all the load speed I got it seems the game runs very slowly and is a bit glitchy to interface. Looks like I might need some up grades to run quickly but that is alright for now as I want to go slow and learn my way.

Looking over my starting positions it is very similar to Htth. Same ten regiment army and provinces. Starting at war with the Horde is a bit disconcerting though. King Vasily is mediocre at best and my starting goal is a bit disapointing. Defend Russia from the Tartars indeed. Sounds more like a long term goal that I wont even be able to fool with for awhile. Am leaving that alone for the moment to check everything else out.

The sliders are...interesting. Centralization at +2 was expected, Aristocracy and Serfdom at -5 was not. The rest was kind of a hodge podge. Am really glad to see that I have a bit of army tradition but am really wondering where that naval tradition came from? We have a navy on a big river or what?

Without a mission to try and get a core on a neighbor, and the threat of the Horde and / or the Smolensk rebels over my head am opting to be very conservative for the moment. Moved the slider to improve the quality of our troops since in theory Russia will usually have enough manpower. For that we got a commandant but he is lame and I leave him in the pool. Saving money for now & seeing where it goes.

Tver & Ryazan have the mission to Save the Russian people. Not sure what that is but will try to look it up on the wiki in a bit. Yaroslavl though has a mission to gain a royal marriage with Muscowy. Thinking that might give me some benefit going forward while I try to figure out how to deal with the other minors I offer them one. That is just as well because while I'm doing this Ryazan allies itself with Novgorod. I need that like a hole in the head so it looks like I will be chilling and looking for targets of opportunity.

Sure enough the rebels come over the border from Lithuania. I hang back, waiting for them to get done and leave so that I can retake it later. Muscowy is in no shape to fight that stack now. One bit of good fortune though; Vasilly dies, without heir, and our land is now ruled by Ivan III Khillkov. He is adm 7, mil 6, dip 6 which is quite the upgrade. Paused the game on January 1st 1400 to ponder where to go next. Looks like it's going to be awhile before the Russian people can get their act together.

[ind2bc]

i'd cancel your mission to try and get a conquer or subjugate mission on one of the minors around you and the mission defend the russian people probably has to do with taking land from either lithuania or GH

[brifbates]

I'm pretty sure a quick peace would successfully complete that mission. I will grant that it is probably the worst luck draw readily available but it isn't impossible. That said, the Muscowy experience did change pretty radically between HttT and DW but once you get used to the changes it is still pretty easy/fun to dominate with Mus.

[Iwanow]

Well Pay Tribute to the golden horde. Or concede defeat, if you care about income. Now, in first year, you should take missions to conquer yaroslavl. ryazan, and vassalize tver. It is entirely possible to get it. But anyway, after that, you should get mission to conquer smolensk or orel. Do it asap, before poland peace out with golden horde. It might be tricky but you can do it.

Few advices :

If you get breach in the wall, storm the fortress if you have more than 1 k of infantry - it is possible for 2 k man to breach the walls.
Don't storm if you don't get breach in the walls, unless you realy need to, or it is yaroslavl.
Use scorched earth if lithuania or poland got any army. If not, just destroy their bigger stacks, and carpet siege them.
If enemy sieges your province with big stack, send small army near it, so they won't storm the fortress.
Especialy effective if you used scorched earth, aspecialy in winter.
Try to end this war fast, but only take smolensk if you got mission on taking it.
But don't be to hasty, try also to take as much provinces as you can.
Try to get more provinces than novgorod. If you don't have enough, see if they are at war with teutons.
Good way of making tver NOT being allied to anyone else, is allying them early. Just call them to war with one of the other minors, before the end of war.
Also, it might be good to ally teutonic order from the beggining.
If novgorod takes part in any war against minors, just take as much provinces from them as possible, and call TO, and possibly tver.
At the beggining, build few regiments, like 4-5. You will anyway quickly increase your support limit to 20k(with yaroslavl and ryazan annexed, and tver vassalized).

[Vainfall]

It's best to just sue peace with the horde. On day 1, offer them tribute. Since you're so small and weak, it won't be much, and the tribute stays the same as you grow. So after you conquer the rest of the russian people, you're still paying 1.x tribute.

[Iwanow]

It's best to just sue peace with the horde. On day 1, offer them tribute. Since you're so small and weak, it won't be much, and the tribute stays the same as you grow. So after you conquer the rest of the russian people, you're still paying 1.x tribute.

Well actualy if you will be fast enough, you can take 1 of their province and quickly colonize it, then offer them tribute before they see what you done XD. And you will get a core on it. But you must be fast, and effective.

[simon chatfield]

turning off the graphics in the in-game options menu should speed things up a bit.....

[gela1212]

A question that I thought of after reading a few parts of your story, are you running the latest patch (5.2)? If you aren't, I heavily suggest you download it. It would improve your experience immensely and save you a lot of the pain many of us had to feel when trying to learn DW.

Also, Chronicles of a new Divine Wind player? I see what you did there.

"Save the Russian People" is almost exclusively targeted at Lithuania. It's a mission that you are given to take a province of your culture that is owned by a nation of another culture. It's actually a generic, the title is always "Save the X People", but in the early game its easy to find it in Russia (because of Lith).

Out of curiosity, how experienced with HTTT were you?

[Kepheren]

Answering a few queries before I load the game up again:

I'm pretty sure a quick peace would successfully complete that mission. I will grant that it is probably the worst luck draw readily available but it isn't impossible. That said, the Muscowy experience did change pretty radically between HttT and DW but once you get used to the changes it is still pretty easy/fun to dominate with Mus.

Yeah, I noticed quite a few difference. Will try first to offer the Horde protection money since that seems to be the general consensus. If that doesn't take care of the mission requirements I'll cancel it and hope for something better.

turning off the graphics in the in-game options menu should speed things up a bit.....

Will definitly try that. Also have gone through today and deleted some old programs not in use anymore, defragmenting, etc. Will see if any of that helps.

A question that I thought of after reading a few parts of your story, are you running the latest patch (5.2)? If you aren't, I heavily suggest you download it. It would improve your experience immensely and save you a lot of the pain many of us had to feel when trying to learn DW.

Also, Chronicles of a new Divine Wind player? I see what you did there.

"Save the Russian People" is almost exclusively targeted at Lithuania. It's a mission that you are given to take a province of your culture that is owned by a nation of another culture. It's actually a generic, the title is always "Save the X People", but in the early game its easy to find it in Russia (because of Lith).

Out of curiosity, how experienced with HTTT were you?

Heh. Glad you like the play on words. As far as the patch goes I've got the 5.1 patch that I loaded today when I bought the game. What is 5.2 and what would it change? Since my computer is already choking a bit on the current program will that make it worse?

My experience with HTTT is somewhat limited but I did play a complete Italian campaign in that verion and a few Russian ones though not all the way to 1821. Wouldnt call myself an expert but am passingly familiar with most game mechanics...at least as far as I know.

[gela1212]

Heh. Glad you like the play on words. As far as the patch goes I've got the 5.1 patch that I loaded today when I bought the game. What is 5.2 and what would it change? Since my computer is already choking a bit on the current program will that make it worse?

My experience with HTTT is somewhat limited but I did play a complete Italian campaign in that verion and a few Russian ones though not all the way to 1821. Wouldnt call myself an expert but am passingly familiar with most game mechanics...at least as far as I know.

5.2 won't (or at least shouldn't) slow down your game, and I suggest installing it for your next campaign. (Not the current one, switching patches in the middle of the save causes a lot of problems)

[Kepheren]

Alright. I'll finish this one before I go get 5.2. What does it do btw?

At any rate, decided to play another couple of years to try out the suggestions that were offered. Thanks to all of you by the way for those. Changing the graphics setting did improve the play quite a bit. It's running a bit faster & isn't quite so glitchy. Also, offered the Horde tribute which the quickly accepted. Thats one problem more or less out of the way for a bit. Not only should it keep them off my back but I got a little bit of military tradition and prestige for paying them off. Not too shabby.

Wish I could say the same for my next mission though. Annex Ryazen; where in the world where you when I could have acted on that BEFORE they allied with Novgorod. Ah well, no help for it and I'm not up for a two front war yet. Lets see what the rest of my neighbors are up to. I look north and much to my surprise find Tver at war with Yarsolval (sp? never could spell that unless I'm looking at the map) and somehow managing to be losing!

Seeing that I have a royal marriage with the ones currently ahead in the war I offer an alliance which they accept. This gives me the chance to declare war on Tver and only lose one stability. Sounds like a plan to me so the Muscowy army marches in to lay siege to Tver. When they see this the tiny army they had trying to attack Yarsolval changes course, cuts through Moscow and marches into Vyazyn I believe it is just as the Smolensk rebels are going back into Lithuania. Oddly enough they stay there and lay siege to it while I dance on their capital. No wonder they were losing in a war with a weak one province minor.

Within a few months Tver falls while they are still sieging my rebel held province. I've used the time to build five more units and throw them into the main army at Tver. Moving my army south I smash the forces of Tver pretty thoroughly and they retreat towards Rhyzyn I believe it is. (sorry that I have trouble spelling all these Russian minor provinces....at least I figure you guys will all know where I mean. ) They have beat down the rebels so bad that it only took me about a month to siege them out and then follow the Tver army....which I now outnumber about four to one. Long story short I wipe the floor with them and they retreat into a fresh army from Yarsolvl which totally wipes them out. About four months of sieging followed by an assault and their last province falls. Complete annexation quickly follows.

So, at the moment it is Jan 1st 1402 and I have absorbed both provinces of Tver. This is good of course but is a slight problem since I didn't get cores on them and have to wait about fifty years before they can give me their full benefit. I also have a royal marraige and alliance with Yaroslvl and a 200 relations with them. With a little time they should be ripe for vassalization and eventual diplo annexation. As for Ryazan and Novgorod I'm still no where near able to challange both at once so it is time to begin the waiting game. At least my stability jumped back up to three very fast and maybe I can use the down time to hire some advisors to help save my putrid economy. I dont like even the small inflation I've wracked up and can't get any traders into Novgorad so definitly need to get the economy fixed as the next order of business.

[ywhtptgtfo]

I almost misread the thread title when I saw the first word.

[brifbates]

Alright. I'll finish this one before I go get 5.2. What does it do btw?

At any rate, decided to play another couple of years to try out the suggestions that were offered. Thanks to all of you by the way for those. Changing the graphics setting did improve the play quite a bit. It's running a bit faster & isn't quite so glitchy. Also, offered the Horde tribute which the quickly accepted. Thats one problem more or less out of the way for a bit. Not only should it keep them off my back but I got a little bit of military tradition and prestige for paying them off. Not too shabby.

Wish I could say the same for my next mission though. Annex Ryazen; where in the world where you when I could have acted on that BEFORE they allied with Novgorod. Ah well, no help for it and I'm not up for a two front war yet. Lets see what the rest of my neighbors are up to. I look north and much to my surprise find Tver at war with Yarsolval (sp? never could spell that unless I'm looking at the map) and somehow managing to be losing!

Seeing that I have a royal marriage with the ones currently ahead in the war I offer an alliance which they accept. This gives me the chance to declare war on Tver and only lose one stability. Sounds like a plan to me so the Muscowy army marches in to lay siege to Tver. When they see this the tiny army they had trying to attack Yarsolval changes course, cuts through Moscow and marches into Vyazyn I believe it is just as the Smolensk rebels are going back into Lithuania. Oddly enough they stay there and lay siege to it while I dance on their capital. No wonder they were losing in a war with a weak one province minor.

Within a few months Tver falls while they are still sieging my rebel held province. I've used the time to build five more units and throw them into the main army at Tver. Moving my army south I smash the forces of Tver pretty thoroughly and they retreat towards Rhyzyn I believe it is. (sorry that I have trouble spelling all these Russian minor provinces....at least I figure you guys will all know where I mean. ) They have beat down the rebels so bad that it only took me about a month to siege them out and then follow the Tver army....which I now outnumber about four to one. Long story short I wipe the floor with them and they retreat into a fresh army from Yarsolvl which totally wipes them out. About four months of sieging followed by an assault and their last province falls. Complete annexation quickly follows.

So, at the moment it is Jan 1st 1402 and I have absorbed both provinces of Tver. This is good of course but is a slight problem since I didn't get cores on them and have to wait about fifty years before they can give me their full benefit. I also have a royal marraige and alliance with Yaroslvl and a 200 relations with them. With a little time they should be ripe for vassalization and eventual diplo annexation. As for Ryazan and Novgorod I'm still no where near able to challange both at once so it is time to begin the waiting game. At least my stability jumped back up to three very fast and maybe I can use the down time to hire some advisors to help save my putrid economy. I dont like even the small inflation I've wracked up and can't get any traders into Novgorad so definitly need to get the economy fixed as the next order of business.

Actually beating Nov + Ryazan isn't that hard. Ally with Sweden (if they are free of the PU), TO, and/or Poland, wait for them to be at peace, then DoW Ryazan. You focus on swallowing Ryazan and pretty much ignore Nov until the Ryazan army is annihilated. Leave siege forces behind and send your main force north. In this war you want to swallow Ryazan and grab a couple provinces from Nov (eating the badboy saves the likelyhood of needing 2 wars to vassalize them later). Novgorod looks a lot more scary than it actually is at the start. They have less than good sliders (militarily speaking) and a lot of unfortified provinces/colonies. As long as you have some sort of help from the west beating them is simple, without that help you should be able to handle them but it can get pretty tricky.

You then will most likely get the Tver and Yaroslavl missions that give you those cores. Using diplovassalization on Tver will give you some free infamy reduction as well if you're concerned about it.

[Kepheren]

With a little free time tonight I boot the game back up with the intent of putting all the good advice I'm being given to the test. Looking around I find that Sweden is still stuck in the personal union so no help there. Poland wants nothing to do with me at the moment so I leave that alone as well. Teutonic Order proves to be a lot more inviting so the moment they finish off their current war to absorb Pskov I ask for and then received an alliance.

It is back to the hurry up and wait game though almost immediately. They are only at peace for a few days, literally, before I find they are in a war with Bavaria and assorted other central european powers. Will need to wait for them to work that out because their army is tiny at the moment and Novgorod actually has an army just a hair larger than mine.

One good thing though did come to me as I waited. Smolensk rebels did succeed from Lithuania as a one province country. They are at war with Poland, Lithuania and their allies. Those powers though are still busy slugging it out with the Horde and no where near them. Knowing I'll need them for later I DOW Smolensk and crush it pretty quickly. Another province joins the Muscowy side.

This has pushed my infamy up quite a bit since I had only a couple of years ago absorbed both provinces of Tver. Prestige is low, infamy is high and stability just took a hit. The next two years is an almost continual succession of beating down small revolts all over my kingdom. By this point I had converted the ruler to a general since I can't really afford to hire one. He leads my 15 regiment stack in several battles that are adding a nice boost to my military tradition.

Unfortunately he takes that opportunity to drop dead. Not in battle but while the army is parked in Moscow resting. Since the heir is only two years old a pretender spawns with ten regiments. This prompts a two year running battle accross six provinces before he and his army are finally dead and gone.

That leaves me now with an heir who is four years old, so no more aggressive wars for at least a decade. Is probably just as well because I'm getting eaten up because infamy and prestige still are hurting. It is also only through constant manipulation of my income slider that I have any money at all, but that has brought up inflation to 1.5 by January 1407 when I saved. Bit the bullet and hired a diplomat and the great person who provides prestige...natural philosopher I think?

Anyway, the current plan is to continue to wait (as if I have a choice since the regency council cant declare war.) for Teutonics to be at peace and maybe to bring Sweden into the alliance. Mores the pity because Ryazan doesnt seem to be able to hold an army, despite the fact that their mission is to build a national army. I see new units pop in their territory and then almost immediately dissapear. Not sure what is up with that but the bottom line is that they have NO troops and my hands are tied when it comes to gobbling them up. Sometimes there is just no justice....

[Kepheren]

The wheels of time roll on and the next few years are pretty bloody boring. Muscowy watches for the most part as events play out around her. Efforts to improve the economy and make a bit of $$$ are for the most part useless and I continue to watch as Ryazan seems totally unable to field an army.

Interestingly enough Novgorod declares war on the Horde. At least this is interesting to watch for awhile. Even more interesting I notice them occupy and then colonise a couple of Horde provinces. Once their war ends they win those two but quickly lose both to rebels. Am kinda wondering why they bothered. At least Ryazan didn't join the war though so they remain ripe for the picking.

Lithuania & Poland are still losing provinces rebel movements as Smoelensk reforms elsewehre and the Ukraine pops up. Neither are anywhere that would do me any good so I just watch. Sweden does eventually come out from under the Danish thumb and accept my alliance, though as will be recounted soon it didn't do any good.

So, it finally comes time for my young heir to assume the throne. His first official act is to declare war on Ryazan and send the armies in. Novgorod declares war on me, as does Sweden oddly enough. They were also allied with Novgorod after they allied with me and I guess they just liked them better. Teutonic Order joins on my side though so thats a plus. Also a plus is the fact that Novgorod is still at war with the GH at this point.

It is a short war since they never managed to create an army. I sieze their three provinces without a major battle. Novgorod doesnt move to attack until the very end and that is only a token force laying siege to Tver. Neither Sweden or Teutonic Order ever really join the fighting. It looks like they, and the bulk of Novgorods army in the area, are sitting up there on the border shaking their swords at each other. Works for me.

Ryazan accepts anexation and that adds three provinces to my empire. With the mission they all three core and two of them go up in taxable income. A bit of a win there for the home team. I offer Novgorod white peace so that I can regroup and think. They accept this and all becomes peaceful once again.

New mission pops up. Annex Yarosloval. They are alread in a royal marriage and an alliance with a 200 relationship. I go for the gold and offer them vassalization. I figure if it works then it sets them up for diplo annexation in a few years. If they resist, either now or when I try to annex them later, then I can use the drop in relations as fuel to break off relations and crush them the old fashioned way. They accept so all is good for now.

The new territory has improved the economy somewhat but it still kind of stinks. I cant get traders in anywhere so that really is a problem. Am now saving in mid 1419 and surveying the field while I try to decide what to do next.

[brifbates]

Defensive calls to arms always take precedence over offensive ones. The trick to getting your ally to join you (or at least not oppose you) is to be allied in a war with them when you start your offensive warmongering. Unfortunately circumstances aren't always right to allow that.

edit: until you actually take Novgorod you should ignore trade, all sending merchants is doing for you is flushing money down the drain.

[Kepheren]

Defensive calls to arms always take precedence over offensive ones. The trick to getting your ally to join you (or at least not oppose you) is to be allied in a war with them when you start your offensive warmongering. Unfortunately circumstances aren't always right to allow that.

Thats the sort of thing I was trying to learn by doing this. Thanks for sharing. I've also noticed that when I play I'm paying more attention to tiny details so that I can remember them to share. Thats helping my play as well I think.

edit: until you actually take Novgorod you should ignore trade, all sending merchants is doing for you is flushing money down the drain.

Yeah, so I've discovered. Have also noticed that good counselors don't help much at this stage either. Was burning through magistrates, since they dont have much other use at the moment, to commission paintings & such to build up my cultural tradition. Then spawned a level four sherrif and master of the mint. The master of the mint is slowing inflation but I have to keep my income slider set pretty high to get positive money at the end of the year and it is still creeping up. As for the sherrif he isn't helping a bit. I guess maybe my base tax is so low that the four percent he gives isn't even covering his monthly cost? Ah well, at least I'm making money from the councellors who get hired out by foreign countrys.

[rustic]

Yeah, so I've discovered. Have also noticed that good counselors don't help much at this stage either. Was burning through magistrates, since they dont have much other use at the moment, to commission paintings & such to build up my cultural tradition. Then spawned a level four sherrif and master of the mint. The master of the mint is slowing inflation but I have to keep my income slider set pretty high to get positive money at the end of the year and it is still creeping up. As for the sherrif he isn't helping a bit. I guess maybe my base tax is so low that the four percent he gives isn't even covering his monthly cost? Ah well, at least I'm making money from the councellors who get hired out by foreign countrys.

Well, as one of the loading screen tips says regarding advisors: "Do the math." Sheriffs/Eldermen are rarely worth it IMHO, early on because they don't pay back, and when those sorts of advisors reach break even later on then you most likely earn enough money anyway. I think tech dudes are the way to go in the early game (I usually prioritise a high level statesman), unless you're in need of a MoM or an army morale guy.

[Kepheren]

I prefered the load screen tip that said never to start a land war in Russia. Am thinking that might be a lot more applicable to my current situation. At any rate, had some time to think about it and a bit of time to play tonight so gave the boot to the great men I had and inflated my cultural tradition a bit more with paintings to then create a statesman to give me government tech and an army reformer for land tech. It appeas Russia's future will only be forged by war and I need to get my country up to speed.

Since I'm basicly killing time till 1425 when the truce with Novgorod ends I spend extra time fine tuning my tech & finance sliders. Also do a bit of promoting cultural unity to pry off Ryazan & Tver's cores from their old territory...just in case. Soon enough I get the govt tech level four I need for a national idea. Thats when the real difficult choices start.

I debate for a moment between national bank (scared of inflation here) bureacracy and military drill. As my economy is stable, though only barely, and I will definitly be in another war sooner rather than later I take the military drill and hope for the best. Eventually the time ticks off and I'm just a couple of weeks before the truce expires.

At that point, despite my best efforts, the only useful alliance I have is with the Teutonic Order. Novgorod is allied to Sweden and (yikes) Lithuania. Just what I need....a two front war if I declare and between the three of them they have more than triple the troops I & the TO have together. Am considering trying again for an alliance with Lithuania and Sweden & then see if the AI in Novgorod would be dumb enough to declare if I provoke them by insults & moving my national focus to the border. If that doesnt work it looks like I have another wait ahead of me to pick just the right moment when I either have an advantage or can catch Novgorod without allies.

[Iwanow]

Well, you said ukraine and smolensk revolted. If it is so, you should not care about lithuania, as without kiev, they are not much of a threat - teutons will also take care of them, so they shouldn't make much of a threat. But you could take down smolensk, and then start conquering ukraine with easy cb you get because they are tribal goverment,

But i got to say you should not end the war with novgorod, after annexing ryazan. Actualy i find it good to build few regiments before war with ryazan, as ryzan gives you additional support limit, which combined with the fact you already have it increased, makes muscowy in position to easily defeat novgorod. The same goes for tver and yaroslavl.

About trading, if you want to trade, you need to go free trade from the beggining, which means not going centralized, and you need to go centralized, for early as possible westernization.

For future game tips, i say, from the beggining ally TO and tver, plus immediately propose gh tribute, unless you want to take 1 province of theirs(and do it only if you get mission for it). If you want to do it (it is possible, and quite good if you manage to do it, as it cripple them a bit, plus give you free core. Then immediately dow the mission target(be it ryazan or yaroslavl). Better it is if it is yaroslavl, as it is easier to quickly annex them, so you can dow the other one pretty quickly, then just diplo-vassalize tver or vassalize them by war, and go for smolensk core plus all possible lithuanian provinces.

Stick it to your mind : You have to know how to fight stronger enemies in this game, and as muscowy you just have to fight stronger enemies, and still beat them down.

Otherwise, you will just stay petty russian state, instead of glorious russia.