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Thread: Any interest in ships?

  1. #1

    Any interest in ships?

    I mean, do you really use them ? Cause they suck, they get destroyed too so quickly that i dont really see the point to bother with them.
    I wait to see a game where i find a good use for them.That's sad cause they may be interesting, but bombarding costal cities can be fun at start but is of no use actually.I better build archers and snipe cities.As for Snakes attacking your costal towns, just buils a basic archer in the town and it will be more effective.

    Just tell me if you think i am wrong.

    Bye.

  2. #2
    I haven't used ships too much. I think they'd be very useful if you were playing in an Island generated world, though. If you have a few ships around and your enemies need to cross water, you should be able to easily destroy very tough units while they're vulnerable in their transports.

    Undead flying ships are better, though. :P

  3. #3
    Ships are overpriced and underpowered, especially the undead ships.

    A standard ship costs 100 gold, and upkeep is 2 gold and 2 food. It has 16 hit points and attacks for four. A random starting dude on a boat typically costs between 20 and 30 gold, and takes one gold and one food or mana. He has 10 hit points and attacks for two.

    See the problem here? A couple of cheap land units in transport mode will generally beat a real ship and cost less, plus you can take them on land too. Undead ships cost 160 and take 2 gold and 5 mana to upkeep. They're stronger, but still weak enough that two archers that cost a third as much total will kill them easily. They have a siege bonus but lose fights against all but the smallest towns. I wanted to like them; I really did. Flying battleships were a hoot in Master of Magic. But these ones are too expensive for how weak they are, so I don't bother.

    Undead do have one huge advantage in naval combat though, since they often go with Krypta. Summon Skeletons costs 13 mana to cast and 1 to upkeep, and they make a transport ship if you put them in the water. You can make a ridiculously large navy for very little cost that way, and summon replacements every turn no matter where your fleet is.

  4. #4
    Main use for them is exploration and early transport interception, usually one or two caravel's are enough to get all the junk floating and get fivefold money return. Also it's very important to pick +1 sight perk to be able to spot krakens and snakes before they spot you and eat you, otherwise it could be back to just get your money back.

    PS: Though why would anyone get galleons remains a mystery to me.

  5. #5
    At the moment, once I get water walking I don't build ships ever again. They are quite fragile as it is. This might be by design, to keep the player's focus on units that have more utility after the risky shipwreck debris collection is over.
    Feel free to call me App. It's shorter.

  6. #6
    Galleon's attack is usually just strong enough to one shot transports. However they need a lot more hit points to be worth their cost than they actually have IMO. One serpent is more than a match for a Galleon which seems silly. Another way they could help out naval units besides more hit points would be to take away attacks from transports. Or nerf the attack.

  7. #7
    Close the worLd,.txEn eht nepO GAGA Extrem's Avatar
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    Ships seem pretty weak, but AIRSHIPS are amazing.
    I recently found an advanced undead airship (Flying Line Gallus) and that thing is just brutal. Flying movement grants superb mobility - and I can imagine if I had a few of those, I would just need 1 ground unit to capture all the cities and that's it. :>

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by GAGA Extrem View Post
    Ships seem pretty weak, but AIRSHIPS are amazing.
    I recently found an advanced undead airship (Flying Line Gallus) and that thing is just brutal. Flying movement grants superb mobility - and I can imagine if I had a few of those, I would just need 1 ground unit to capture all the cities and that's it. :>
    They cost a fortune. If you found one for free it's handy to have, but actually paying for them as a strategy for winning is not so great.

  9. #9
    Close the worLd,.txEn eht nepO GAGA Extrem's Avatar
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    Yes, they are costly, but so far money was not really an issue for me during the early game.
    The flying ability is really worth it.

  10. #10
    I really like the little undead ship (not the flying one) because of the captain's voice. I try to use them sometimes, it's depressing. Like I just said in another thread, ships need a lot of love. An archer with waterwalking is a much better ocean faring unit.

  11. #11
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    I don't build ships - I tend to play on mapos with big continents, so initially I have plenty to do on my 'home' continent and by the time I need to move, I casta few water walks or have a bunch of dracoliches available. I even in my current game have three L8 upgraded green bats with an elemental defense buff that just fly around killing krakens, serpens and leviathans.

    The biggest issue I got with the seas is not that ships are weak (because I feel that there are serious balance issues with units as it is, ships not the biggest issue perhaps) but because it took a while to start going seaborne, the seas are filled with dozens and dozens of seas critters. Not dangerous, but a nuisance. I mean, killing yet another kraken becomes a core when it's no longer a challenge.

    I do, come to think of it, wonder that the amount of sea critters and the weakness of ships/transports is WHY I have yet to see the AI cross over to another island...

    I would love to have some option to see the entire map early in the game to see what the AI is doing to (dis)proof my suspisions on may AI related issues.

  12. #12
    I usually only build one or two caravels. I use them for looting ship wrecks. And a little for taking out transports, scouting and bombing cities. They aren't a major part of the game. No reason to build massive fleets like in a civ game.

  13. #13
    Huh? Ships is weak? I don't get it. I have fleets and fleets running around and killing sea monsters. They generally can take a 1-3 hits from sea monsters before sinking. Sometimes they get one shot, that's critical damage, its my luck. Meh. I'm fine with it, after all they're trying to square off massive sea monsters with woefully inadequate weapons, their cannons is made for sinking enemy ships not sea monsters xD I'm pretty sure shells normally would just bounce off sea serpent's hide.

    It goes like this, Galleons converge onto an target and blast it full of shells. Sometimes If there's too many sea serpents, I kill as much as possible and finish off any weakened sea serpents with Incinerate spell.

    I suspect you guys is trying to Have a ship fight alone against a sea monster, that's ridiculous.

    Levianthans can be soloed, they only have 20 hp. Sea serpent at 60, krakens is at over 80? As your galleons gain exp, they're really strong and durable. Tons of resists and Elemental/normal damage boosts.

    If anything, I feel like sea monsters is still too easy and weak xD A group of 5 galleons have no trouble hunting down sea monsters and clearing out my sea waters of nests to a point where I could easily send tons of transports in following with no worry. It's turn 270, and the seas is almost cleared out. And i only have two naval groups working at north and south.

    And each group is just like 6 galleons with some random caravels I feel like building. I haven't had a good naval battle from the AI yet

    And what's up with Krakens? They seem to not spawn any krakens at all, they sometimes get shelled to oblivion because they refuse to leave their nest, when they do, caravels tend to get killed xD

    In short, naval units is good.

  14. #14
    It's funny, because you can give waterwalking to almost any land unit and it can go out and solo those sea monsters without trouble.

  15. #15
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    I only go with ships if they have black sails, are flying and crewed by the damned. I use two flying line galleus to kill dragons and I haven't but a single buff on them.
    Since they are already flying you don't need wind/water-walking nor the leviathan buff and they get so many damage increasing perks it's totally op.
    They start with the demolisher perk but I also got during level-ups Heavy Stones +30% Missile, Stinky Shots +20% Death Magic, Flaming Rocks +20$ Elemental damage and Skilled Cannoneer + 20% Unit Power. Only drew back virtually no armor and only 3 movement points. Pair them with a green bats to ensure you get the drop on your enemies and you don't have to worry about getting shot back.

  16. #16
    Ya the flying ships are oddly not classified as ships, which is a decent advantage because there are actually a few buyable perks for constructs including a couple decent power boosts. There are no buyable perks in the game at all for units classified as ships.

  17. #17
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    Ships are too weak and overpriced to be of any use.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by GAGA Extrem View Post
    Yes, they are costly, but so far money was not really an issue for me during the early game.
    The flying ability is really worth it.
    Use the Levitation spell on your Skeleton Snipers. The snipers are cheaper, more durable, have better attack in general, and the levitation spell only costs -3 mana upkeep per turn vs the -5 for a flying galleus. Literally no reason to use the airships.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by syzygy23 View Post
    Use the Levitation spell on your Skeleton Snipers. The snipers are cheaper, more durable, have better attack in general, and the levitation spell only costs -3 mana upkeep per turn vs the -5 for a flying galleus. Literally no reason to use the airships.
    Hmm, levitation cost 10 mana upkeep for me. Did you mean water walking instead? Which has only 2 mana upkeep.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astasia View Post
    It's funny, because you can give waterwalking to almost any land unit and it can go out and solo those sea monsters without trouble.
    LOL, so true. I definitely agree that ships either need to be buffed, reduced in price, or there just needs to be a larger variety so that we have the weaker ships at the beginning, then really tough ones late in the game. The entire naval aspect of the game seems like it's a little underdeveloped, though, and that's kind of a shame because it seems like there's a lot of potential there on certain map types.

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