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Thread: How do I expand as a peaceful nation?

  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant Mortac's Avatar
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    How do I expand as a peaceful nation?

    I'm playing as Milan and my game plan was to be a peaceful nation and unifying Italy without wars. However, I have no idea how to do this efficiently. Since Milan starts with 2 unlawful provinces, the first thing I did was to release these as vassals. Some 20 years later, I figured I could now diplomatically annex them without the HRE intervening, but to my surprise this doesn't seem to be the case. I still lack them as cores, and there's no way for me to hold them for 50 years without the HRE demanding that I release them again.

    I've also read that claiming thrones is supposed to be key to peaceful expansions. I thought at first that this would be possible when a regency council was ruling the nation, but this was wrong, since apparently there's still a heir, only too young for the moment. Waiting for a nation to lack a legal heir doesn't appear to happen very often, so this doesn't seem to me to be a very efficient way of acquiring provinces, either.

    I've also tried royal marriages and alliances with weaker nations, helping them out whenever I can, while making sure my relations stay constantly at 200. Even if this is done for what seems like an eternity, they still won't agree to become my vassals, and even if they did, I'd still lack cores on their provinces.

    I know having a high prestige is also important for other nations to agree to my demands, but it seems impossible to keep any substantial amounts of it unless you participate in wars. Additionally, leaving the HRE would make it even harder.

    Thus, it seems to me that the only way to do it is to leave the HRE so that they won't intervene, and then diplomatically annex my vassals. But then I'd also have the problem of making them my vassals in the first place, which I assume could only really be done through wars, as it seems rather hopeless to have them agree to it otherwise. Either that or you need to have cores on their provinces, which afaik can only be gained through popups, and of course waiting for these to appear on the proper provinces is nearly impossible.

    So how do people go about doing peaceful expansions? What's the best way to do it?

  2. #2
    Back from moderation hell midget_roxx's Avatar
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    There are a couple ways:
    1. Peaceful vassalise - Get relations above 190 and have a royal marriage and there will be an option to offer vassalisation
    2. Personal Unions - This is all based on luck. At the top when you see a little crown icon on a red background, look for the nations with a low pretige and try to get royal marriages with them. The lower their prestige the higher chance their legitemancy will go down, making it possible to get a PU

    If you want to get for a more aggressive (but still relatively peaceful) style, send warning and gurentee nations

  3. #3
    Командир Батаљона DanubianCossak's Avatar
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    In theory its possible to do it.

    In practice its not.

    If you want to expand to eventually form nations you will have to declare wars eventually.

    There is another way though, an alternative to starting wars: simply guarantee everything around you and wait. Sooner or later some AI country will attack another, and then you can move in and vassalise or annex them.

    As for HRE, you have nothing to fear. The system is not very advanced, and there is no such thing as HRE coming after you if you hold HRE provinces without core. As long as you can fit the non core HRE provs within your BB burn limit, youll be fine. HRE will be mostly preoccupied with France and POLITH etc.
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    Alternatively, you could leave the HRE, especially if you intend to expand into Northern Italy. If you're outside the HRE you'll have the provincial decision to remove HRE provinces from the Empire for 1 magistrate. It's usually advisable to remove a province as soon as you are at peace, as the "emperor requests province" event fires fairly quickly otherwise. Doing so however gives the emperor as casus belli against you and will damage your relations.
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  5. #5
    Second Lieutenant Mortac's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of your suggestions. I'll make a new game with a slightly more militaristic approach.

    I'm wondering, though, is there any way to increase the likelihood of nations accepting to become your vassals? Prestige and the diplomatic skill of my ruler do matter if I understand correctly. Does having a large military and/or a large nation have any impact? Is there anything else?

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    Second Lieutenant Kresaux's Avatar
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    There is a way of having high prestige without wars, hire a 5-6 star advisor. Also introducing an heir and supporting the Florentine school will help a lot combined with your HRE member bonus. Maybe you can try to become an Emperor with all that spare time for more bonuses.
    Use that prestige to increase your SoI, this will make diplo-vassalizations easier.
    This, and random PU-s from royal marriages (chances increased when you claim throne, but not during regency) are the only two ways of peacefull expansion that I know of.
    Also maybe you can play with your spies using patriotic rebels, but I don't have expiriance with that and it doesn't give cores.
    Last edited by Kresaux; 11-05-2012 at 04:22.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortac View Post
    Thanks for all of your suggestions. I'll make a new game with a slightly more militaristic approach.

    I'm wondering, though, is there any way to increase the likelihood of nations accepting to become your vassals? Prestige and the diplomatic skill of my ruler do matter if I understand correctly. Does having a large military and/or a large nation have any impact? Is there anything else?
    I think the most important things for peaceful vassalisation are: having the same religious group, having a royal marriage, low infamy and high prestige on your part, relation over 190, and your target must be 4 or less provinces big.
    btw anoter way to expand that you may consider, is to fabricate claims on the throne of a country with a spy (if that country has a heir with weak claim and such), then declare war and force them into personal union in the peace treaty. you can do this against big countries too

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Uokko View Post
    I think the most important things for peaceful vassalisation are: having the same religious group, having a royal marriage, low infamy and high prestige on your part, relation over 190, and your target must be 4 or less provinces big.
    btw anoter way to expand that you may consider, is to fabricate claims on the throne of a country with a spy (if that country has a heir with weak claim and such), then declare war and force them into personal union in the peace treaty. you can do this against big countries too
    The target nation cannot have 4 provinces. The ai will never accept diplovassalization if it has 4 provinces.

    Getting a significant SoI will help greatly in playing a more peaceful game due to the over-powered diplomacy value bonus.

    Getting your economy rolling is also important as you will need money to buy up nations.

  9. #9
    General PiriReis's Avatar
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    You could also use spies if the targeted province has the same culture as you..
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kresaux View Post
    Maybe you can try to become an Emperor with all that spare time for more bonuses.
    Being the emperor is generally a pretty fine, if, towards the end, slightly overpowered way to become powerful as a "good guy": Get elected, just... defend the other members without conquering much, gather authority, pass reforms until you suddenly sit at the top of a superpower. The only part that could trouble a small power is revoking the Privilegia.

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