+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Ti gínetai me óla ta latiniká?

  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant OpAphid's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the Throne
    Semper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    167

    Ti gínetai me óla ta latiniká?

    Alright, so I've been thinking. Latin is everywhere in the game of Europa Universalis. It's even in the title.

    People constantly make alt-history mods showing the re-birth or Rome. Doesn't it get tired after awhile? For me it did. And then it got me thinking- Who influenced the Romans the most?

    Yes, the Greeks. The Romans derived all their culture and religion from the Greeks, adding new things in all the time, depending on who they conquered. Early on, even their architecture reflected their friendly Greek neighbors to the South and East.

    What I'm focusing on is (Partly because I'm too lazy to modify the calendar to put it to B.C, and partly since I simply do not have enough time), An alternate history mod, where, after the death of Alexander, the splinter kingdoms survived, and stemmed the tide of other historical events (i.e the rise of Islam throughout the weakened Byzantine Empire), Many historical things didn't happen. This will, eventually (emphasize eventually), become a total conversion mod of Europa Universalis III: Divine Wind.

    I plan to work into effect all of the events that occurred after and during the existence of Alexander's Empire and after. So far I can only give a rough picture of what it would be- I hope to use a map mod, to make it look better as well.

    My proposed conversions are as follows:

    Under The Hood:
    - Most European states are still of barbarian technology, slowly beginning to pull themselves together. They have a 90% Tech Efficiency, and will have their own tech group
    - The Greco-Romano Pantheon religions will still exist, in the Mediterranean, and will be especially present in in Selucia and Greece. Places in Rome will be under its influence, but Rome itself will be Catholic
    - I will be selecting a map-display mod to use for the map. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated


    Physical Changes:
    - Due to a strong Greek and Carthaginian presence in the area of Asia Minor, Palestine, Egypt, and North Africa, Rome never over-extended itself into the Mediterranean, and survived centuries of Barbarian invasion, albeit at the cost of much of it's empire
    - Although losing to the Romans initially, the Moors and Carthaginians survived through the harshest of conditions, and the Moors took advantage of the weakened Roman empire, and struck right in North Africa.
    - Carthage was never truly defeated. hey handed all of their Spanish and Mediterranean territory over to Rome after the Third Punic War, but Carthage itself survived as a City state, and remains to this day, 1st of January, 1399
    - Losing much of their empire to barbarian invasions, Rome had weakened, and tried to negotiate with their Germanic adversaries. Some negotiations were successful, others weren't. However, Rome made a powerful ally when a Roman princess married into the Germanic tribe of the Hathrads- and created a Germanic state with Roman administration in Trans-Italia/Germania (A Germanic Cultured nation without Barbarian penalties)
    - The spread of Islam is limited, however still prominent in Arabia, where a small Caliphate exists. Islam is also prominent in Palestine, Southern Egypt, and is present in Asia Minor and North Africa.
    - Catholicism is the premier religion across Europe, with the exception of Britannia, which will be predominantly Druidic.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I've drafted a preliminary list of nations I will add into the game. This list will, obviously expand over time.

    Country List:

    Aeduii
    Gaulia
    Frankia
    Baetica
    Suevi
    Moravia
    Slavii
    Dacia
    Pommoria
    Frisia
    Rus
    Sapmi
    The Vikings
    Hathradia
    Syracuse
    Insubria
    The Visigoths
    Macedonia
    Sparta
    Corinth
    Athens
    The Seleucid Empire
    Ptolemaic Egypt
    Rhodes
    Pergamum (Releasable)
    Parthia
    Carthago
    Mauretania
    Scythia
    Turanids (Arabian Caliphate)
    Londoninium
    Wessex
    Silures
    Pictii
    Scotland



    Any contributions would be greatly appreciated in accordance to both modding the game, and actual ideas for the mod. Please keep in mind that


    REMEMBER THAT THIS IS, AND UNTIL MENTIONED OTHERWISE, IS A WORK IN PROGRESS. I CANNOT DO THIS ALONE. ANYONE WHO WOULD OFFER THEIR HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
    Last edited by OpAphid; 09-05-2012 at 07:48.

  2. #2
    Scio quod nesciam. MrTaxman's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis 3Divine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: Revolutions
    Europa Universalis: RomeSemper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness
    500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Between here and there.
    Posts
    1,029
    This is a massive project, alright... But I agree that sometimes WAAAAAY too much emphasis is put on Rome. So "Kudos!" on thinking outside the box! I'm afraid that the extent of my help would be limited to technical support (as lame as my help may be) as I am wrestling with my own messy mods. But I would love to see this project come to fruition!
    EUIII: DW Mods
    Occultus Orbis Terrestre
    Ars Lingua

    "A language is a dialect with an army and navy" - Max Weinreich - Meyer Lazarevich Veynreykh - "אַ שפּראַך איז אַ דיאַלעקט מיט אַן אַרמיי און פֿלאָט"

  3. #3
    Second Lieutenant OpAphid's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the Throne
    Semper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTaxman View Post
    This is a massive project, alright... But I agree that sometimes WAAAAAY too much emphasis is put on Rome. So "Kudos!" on thinking outside the box! I'm afraid that the extent of my help would be limited to technical support (as lame as my help may be) as I am wrestling with my own messy mods. But I would love to see this project come to fruition!
    What kind of tech support? An extra beta tester or something along those lines would always be welcome.

  4. #4
    Scio quod nesciam. MrTaxman's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis 3Divine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: Revolutions
    Europa Universalis: RomeSemper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness
    500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Between here and there.
    Posts
    1,029
    Quote Originally Posted by OpAphid View Post
    What kind of tech support? An extra beta tester or something along those lines would always be welcome.
    Sure I'll beta for you. I'd also try to answer any questions I can. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I'd help you get answers to your questions if I can.
    EUIII: DW Mods
    Occultus Orbis Terrestre
    Ars Lingua

    "A language is a dialect with an army and navy" - Max Weinreich - Meyer Lazarevich Veynreykh - "אַ שפּראַך איז אַ דיאַלעקט מיט אַן אַרמיי און פֿלאָט"

  5. #5
    Second Lieutenant OpAphid's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the Throne
    Semper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    167
    Progress report:
    Successfully added in:
    - Selucid Empire
    - Ptolemaic Kingdom
    - Turanids (Arabian Caliphate)
    - Nubanids (Muslim Nubians)
    - Greek Tech group, 98% efficiency, as well as their own units.

    Work in progress:
    - Parthia
    - Countries.txt files
    - Zoroastrian and Greco-Romano religions
    - Mod certain /province files so that Hellenic tech group has discovered certain provinces
    - .tga flag files for Parthia. Ideas would be appreciated.


  6. #6
    Scio quod nesciam. MrTaxman's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis 3Divine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: Revolutions
    Europa Universalis: RomeSemper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness
    500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Between here and there.
    Posts
    1,029
    For Europe, there should be some remnant (or possibly thriving) Celtic kingdoms, a very strong Scandinavian (non-christian, but vicious as anything) presence, Muslims all the way up to the Pyrenees, Stronger slavic nations, completely gutted Italian (or remnant Latin) nations...

    Religions - Germanic (Norse), Celtic, Various versions of Islam, a local Catholic presence in Italy, Hellenic religion, and probably also the old Slavic religion, too.

    The tech groups would be Celtic, Viking (Norse), Muslim, Greek (Hellenic), and Slavic.

    Those are the ideas from the top of my head.
    EUIII: DW Mods
    Occultus Orbis Terrestre
    Ars Lingua

    "A language is a dialect with an army and navy" - Max Weinreich - Meyer Lazarevich Veynreykh - "אַ שפּראַך איז אַ דיאַלעקט מיט אַן אַרמיי און פֿלאָט"

  7. #7
    Field Marshal WeissRaben's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDarkest HourEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor The Glory
    For the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMagicka
    March of the EaglesVictoria: RevolutionsRome GoldSemper FiSengoku
    Victoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessPride of Nations500k club
    Europa Universalis IV: Pre-orderEUIV: Call to arms eventEUIV: Wealth of NationsEUIV: Conquest of ParadiseEUIV: Res Publica
    Crusader Kings II: Legacy of RomeCrusader Kings II: Sword of IslamCrusader Kings II: Sunset InvasionCrusader Kings II: The RepublicCrusader Kings II: The Old Gods
    Crusader Kings II: Sons of AbrahamCrusader Kings II: Rajas of IndiaCrusader Kings II: Charlemagne

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Duchy of Milan
    Posts
    4,572
    And take out Christianity. Seriously: 323 years are too much. Put Jews, if you want, Zoroastrianism, but Christianity has to go. Unless you want to REALLY put religion into it and think that it would have happened anyway - but I would, honestly, keep religious matters of of Alternative History.

    EDIT: Of course, this is valid for Islam too - even more, because we are talking about a MILLENNIUM of completely differen history.

  8. #8
    Scio quod nesciam. MrTaxman's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis 3Divine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: Revolutions
    Europa Universalis: RomeSemper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness
    500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Between here and there.
    Posts
    1,029
    Quote Originally Posted by WeissRaben View Post
    And take out Christianity. Seriously: 323 years are too much. Put Jews, if you want, Zoroastrianism, but Christianity has to go. Unless you want to REALLY put religion into it and think that it would have happened anyway - but I would, honestly, keep religious matters of of Alternative History.

    EDIT: Of course, this is valid for Islam too - even more, because we are talking about a MILLENNIUM of completely differen history.
    Some determinists (I'm not one of them) would argue that Christianity and Islam were bound to happen. *shrug*

    Perhaps with Christianity's early 'hobbling' by a wimpy/non-existent Roman Empire (if Christianity is included), the Arabian polytheistic religion would have flourished a little better. Maybe Zoroastrianism would have done a better job at becoming a non-ethnic religion...
    EUIII: DW Mods
    Occultus Orbis Terrestre
    Ars Lingua

    "A language is a dialect with an army and navy" - Max Weinreich - Meyer Lazarevich Veynreykh - "אַ שפּראַך איז אַ דיאַלעקט מיט אַן אַרמיי און פֿלאָט"

  9. #9
    The only thing I might see as a little bit weird with this setting is the continued existence of Rome. I would say that perhaps the best route to go that way would to have Rome not even start to form an Empire in the back history. The reason why is that the moment that Rome started getting control of the Mediterranean, it pretty much exploded in size and wealth due to the trade that was flooding into its coffers. I hate to say it like this, but Rome was pretty much bound to happen, either through Carthaginian means or Roman means. Either country was poised to pretty much make a massive power and land grab in the power vacuum left by Alexander's Death.

    That's just my suggestion, though.

  10. #10
    Field Marshal WeissRaben's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDarkest HourEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor The Glory
    For the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMagicka
    March of the EaglesVictoria: RevolutionsRome GoldSemper FiSengoku
    Victoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessPride of Nations500k club
    Europa Universalis IV: Pre-orderEUIV: Call to arms eventEUIV: Wealth of NationsEUIV: Conquest of ParadiseEUIV: Res Publica
    Crusader Kings II: Legacy of RomeCrusader Kings II: Sword of IslamCrusader Kings II: Sunset InvasionCrusader Kings II: The RepublicCrusader Kings II: The Old Gods
    Crusader Kings II: Sons of AbrahamCrusader Kings II: Rajas of IndiaCrusader Kings II: Charlemagne

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Duchy of Milan
    Posts
    4,572
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTaxman View Post
    Some determinists (I'm not one of them) would argue that Christianity and Islam were bound to happen. *shrug*

    Perhaps with Christianity's early 'hobbling' by a wimpy/non-existent Roman Empire (if Christianity is included), the Arabian polytheistic religion would have flourished a little better. Maybe Zoroastrianism would have done a better job at becoming a non-ethnic religion...
    Not bad. The reason I say both Christianity and Islam are both very "butterflyable" is that they rest on a single person, not on a movement of peoples. Buuuuut...some Jewish sect, more actively proselitizing, COULD exist. Good call on the Arabian religion, and for Zoroaster...could have been brought back by Alexander soldiers and spread from there, if the splinter kingdoms survive long enough. To clip Rome's wings...go back 70 years or so, and you find Brennus almost sacking the city and Marcus Furius Camillus saving it just in time. Make so that Brennus gloats less and loots more, and there is NOTHING Camillus can do. Rome as a nation will survive - a sack does not destroy everything, after all - but it won't reform its army, and probably will move its capital to Veii.

  11. #11
    Scio quod nesciam. MrTaxman's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis 3Divine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: Revolutions
    Europa Universalis: RomeSemper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness
    500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Between here and there.
    Posts
    1,029
    Quote Originally Posted by WeissRaben View Post
    Not bad. The reason I say both Christianity and Islam are both very "butterflyable" is that they rest on a single person, not on a movement of peoples. Buuuuut...some Jewish sect, more actively proselitizing, COULD exist. Good call on the Arabian religion, and for Zoroaster...could have been brought back by Alexander soldiers and spread from there, if the splinter kingdoms survive long enough. To clip Rome's wings...go back 70 years or so, and you find Brennus almost sacking the city and Marcus Furius Camillus saving it just in time. Make so that Brennus gloats less and loots more, and there is NOTHING Camillus can do. Rome as a nation will survive - a sack does not destroy everything, after all - but it won't reform its army, and probably will move its capital to Veii.
    Rome was so caught up in its identity (ROME is the city and state name for crying out loud!) that if they moved to Veii, they probably only would have continued calling themselves romans, everyone else would have referred to them as the Latins. Perhaps they too would have undergone a germanization if Brennus hadn't decided to leave - sort of like what happened in Lombardia.
    EUIII: DW Mods
    Occultus Orbis Terrestre
    Ars Lingua

    "A language is a dialect with an army and navy" - Max Weinreich - Meyer Lazarevich Veynreykh - "אַ שפּראַך איז אַ דיאַלעקט מיט אַן אַרמיי און פֿלאָט"

  12. #12
    Second Lieutenant OpAphid's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the Throne
    Semper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by WeissRaben View Post
    And take out Christianity. Seriously: 323 years are too much. Put Jews, if you want, Zoroastrianism, but Christianity has to go. Unless you want to REALLY put religion into it and think that it would have happened anyway - but I would, honestly, keep religious matters of of Alternative History.

    EDIT: Of course, this is valid for Islam too - even more, because we are talking about a MILLENNIUM of completely differen history.
    Eh. To be honest, I think Christianity should have existed in small cults, like much of the religions back in the Roman empire, and it never really took hold like it did. Sure, there would be a few provinces with it as their main religion, but it wouldn't actually have much influence. And I do plan on putting Zoroastrianism and Judaism in the game. I'm thinking in the area of Palestine a Jewish Kingdom would be put, because I have kind of a power vacuum right now. As for Zoroastrianism, it'll be the main religion of Parthia (Right now it's Shamanist, as a placeholder.), and it will be apparent in Scythia and the eastern parts of Selucia.

    Quote Originally Posted by LockeCarnelia View Post
    The only thing I might see as a little bit weird with this setting is the continued existence of Rome. I would say that perhaps the best route to go that way would to have Rome not even start to form an Empire in the back history. The reason why is that the moment that Rome started getting control of the Mediterranean, it pretty much exploded in size and wealth due to the trade that was flooding into its coffers. I hate to say it like this, but Rome was pretty much bound to happen, either through Carthaginian means or Roman means. Either country was poised to pretty much make a massive power and land grab in the power vacuum left by Alexander's Death.

    That's just my suggestion, though.
    Eh. Being of Greek descent, I kind of like Selucia and the idea of the splinter kingdoms. And maybe, maybe. So, possibly I should change Rome to being either a city state, or in control of someone else, while Carthage is the declining power? Something like that, I'm not sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by WeissRaben View Post
    Not bad. The reason I say both Christianity and Islam are both very "butterflyable" is that they rest on a single person, not on a movement of peoples. Buuuuut...some Jewish sect, more actively proselitizing, COULD exist. Good call on the Arabian religion, and for Zoroaster...could have been brought back by Alexander soldiers and spread from there, if the splinter kingdoms survive long enough. To clip Rome's wings...go back 70 years or so, and you find Brennus almost sacking the city and Marcus Furius Camillus saving it just in time. Make so that Brennus gloats less and loots more, and there is NOTHING Camillus can do. Rome as a nation will survive - a sack does not destroy everything, after all - but it won't reform its army, and probably will move its capital to Veii.
    Yes, probably. But nevertheless, this is not an Anti-Rome thread, just I feel like they should have existed, just not successfully.

  13. #13
    I'd say that Carthage would be a declining power if you are going for the straight historical route. Although quite honestly, there is no reason why the splinter kingdoms wouldn't exist still even with Carthage being a world power. You have to realize that the Alexandrian Successor Kingdoms were further away from Carthage than Persia was from Rome. Even with the Mediterranean making things somewhat easier, it'd be far too long of a trip and a haul to get to most of them and hold power in them, especially the easternmost ones. Ptolemaic Egypt might be an exception to that, but hey.

  14. #14
    Modding Victoria 2 ZomgK3tchup's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDarkest HourDeus VultEU3 CompleteDivine Wind
    For the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the ThroneVictoria: RevolutionsSemper Fi
    Sword of the StarsVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedCK2: Holy Knight500k club
    Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    2,435
    Blog Entries
    1
    I'd recommend checking our MEIOU's Rome and Friends mini-mod. While there is a big focus on Rome, it does a pretty good job at adding barbarian kingdoms in Europe and North Africa as well as scrubbing away the effects of Christianity and Islam.

  15. #15
    Second Lieutenant OpAphid's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the Throne
    Semper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by LockeCarnelia View Post
    I'd say that Carthage would be a declining power if you are going for the straight historical route. Although quite honestly, there is no reason why the splinter kingdoms wouldn't exist still even with Carthage being a world power. You have to realize that the Alexandrian Successor Kingdoms were further away from Carthage than Persia was from Rome. Even with the Mediterranean making things somewhat easier, it'd be far too long of a trip and a haul to get to most of them and hold power in them, especially the easternmost ones. Ptolemaic Egypt might be an exception to that, but hey.
    My thoughts exactly. As for Carthage itself, I'm not sure whether or not to make it a power or not. If it was, I'd be conflicted over what religion, tech group, or even what territory it would possess.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZomgK3tchup View Post
    I'd recommend checking our MEIOU's Rome and Friends mini-mod. While there is a big focus on Rome, it does a pretty good job at adding barbarian kingdoms in Europe and North Africa as well as scrubbing away the effects of Christianity and Islam.
    Alright, Although MEIOU never actually worked on my computer, my as well give it a look-see.

  16. #16
    Second Lieutenant OpAphid's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the Throne
    Semper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    167
    Note to people who bother to follow me anymore. This mod isn't dead, I've just had things to do. I'll update the pictures as soon as I get the chance.

    CHANGE LOG:
    ~Added Ituarea in - Still need to create a (working) Hebrew culture.
    ~Added a Greek Athens into the game, and removed cores of the Lombard Athens from the province.
    ~Removed Mamluk Cores from most provinces
    ~Begun the /common/country files for the Slavic countries
    ~Started to add the discovered_by = greek into most provinces (Decided they wont know about Northern Europe/Britain

    DEVELOPMENTAL ISSUES:
    ~Having mixed feelings about Parthia; If I put them as a Steppe Nomad, they get eaten by the Selucids right away. But if I put them as a Tribal Despotism, they get eaten by the Timurid/Nogai/Kazakh Combo.
    ~Still not sure what to do with Carthage. Decided it will be in the game, but whether to give it hldings in Spain and the Mediterranean I'm not sure.
    ~Can't decide on whether or not to put the "Barbarian" (Northern Europe + Britannia) tech group at 60, 70, or 80%.

    FEEL FREE TO COMMENT.

  17. #17
    Field Marshal videonfan's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDarkest HourDeus VultEU3 CompleteDivine Wind
    For the MotherlandHearts of Iron III CollectionHOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneVictoria: Revolutions
    Rome GoldSengokuSupreme Ruler: Cold WarVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided
    Victoria II: Heart of DarknessRome: Vae VictisMount & Blade: With Fire and SwordCK2: Holy Knight500k club
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Where no man has gone before!
    Posts
    3,189
    Parthia should be Tribal Despotism
    Barbarian tech group should have 70 tech speed

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts