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Thread: Question about the playing as Mongols

  1. #1

    Question about the playing as Mongols

    Hi all, I asked this on a different thread, but since I was (probably rudely) hijacking the topic, no one answered... but I was wondering if anyone knew the answers! Cheers!

    In my recent game (vanilla, no mods, 1.05d-1.05e), I started as the count of Oxford at the 3rd crusade starting date, and I managed to usurp the golden horde title and convert them catholic and English! I noticed that:

    - For the first 30 years, exactly every ten years, I got an event that gave me a 20200 army with no maintenance, suffered no attrition. Pretty sweet, right? But then then the event stopped firing... Anyone know why?

    - I didn't experiment with converting my heirs, but I never had the option for a "Tribal Invasion CB". Was this b/c I wasn't Tengri? Or not Mongol? Or is this never an option for a player?

    - I should mention that the Golden Horde had already converted to Orthodox a generation before I usurped it. This is how I was able to marry my way into a claim. What triggers these conversions? Is there anything the player can do to expedite them?


    Here's where I was when I stopped:
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    Last edited by the_intricacy; 08-05-2012 at 21:23.

  2. #2
    Duke of Lothian Kagernaut's Avatar
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    How the heck did you usurp the title??? I thought this was not possible....?

    Are you playing a mod?

  3. #3
    General Dutchling's Avatar
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    Christians are "pacifists" which means they dont get the tribal invasion casus belli. You may have noticed the previously converted horde bot using it either.

  4. #4
    Yikes, that's a big yellow mass. But what's the story with that single red county in the Baltics?

    The 20,200 armies are special events for the GH that simulate their hoardish ability to sweep over anything in their path. The developers talk about it in one of their developer diaries. They stop because all the shock troops have finally reached Europe, I guess.

    I don't know why you didn't get the CB or if there are any special rules for the GH and conversions. I have noticed that they sometimes convert to any religion, which is atypical. I guess they're special there, too.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagernaut View Post
    Are you playing a mod?
    Nope. As they were already Christian, it was easy enough to wait for a male disaffected claimant with an inheritable claim, and matri-marry a female kinsmen to him. Wait for a male child; Then you could press your kinsman's claim (and kill him afterwards, to inherit if you are head of your family), or appoint the male child kinsman with the claim as your heir, and press it when you play as him. I did the former, if you look at the crown's history, below. EDIT: "Usurp" was the wrong word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchling View Post
    Christians are "pacifists" which means they dont get the tribal invasion casus belli.
    Does that mean if I get myself a Tengri heir, I can do it when he takes over? Anyone tried this if this would that work for non-Empires too? If so... sounds fun!

    Here's some more screenies:

    Religion:
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    Culture, note the little swath of English in the Eastern edge of the map. lol:
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    My Vassal map. Note I still am holding on the Kingdom of England:
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    Dutchy Map. Only two more years until all of Ireland is incorporated as England, which frankly was my original goal of this game... incorporate the British Isles under one crown. I got carried away:
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    Kingdom Map. I destroyed the HRE crown, and gave the ERE crown to Jerusalem... a small sacrifice so I could transfer vassals outside of their de jure empire boundries:
    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by the_intricacy; 08-05-2012 at 21:40.

  6. #6
    My Income:
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    This is how I controlled my kingdom, before I became emperor, as I just wrote on a different thread:
    1) Center your capital in all your holdings, and make that kingdom your primary crown.
    2) Give duchies within that primary kingdom to family-less celibate men. They'll be super happy just to be duke, and then when they die, since you are the heir, you get to make some other family-less celibate man happy, repeating the cycle. If you have multiple of such dukes, you can redistribute to the older ones, whose "granted a..." bonus has worn off. Make sure to give them enough holdings that they can will keep their primary duchy in your primary kindgom.
    3) As you put down rebellions, give the non-primary kingdom dutchies to one of the rulers in step 2. This will reduce your distance penalty, and eventually de jure shift those duchies to your primary crown.

    Click image for larger version

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philo32b View Post
    But what's the story with that single red county in the Baltics?
    If you look at the 1366 map, it's gone. That's the great thing about being (a powerful and well liked) emperor, you can let your king vassals mop up the stray counties for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philo32b View Post
    The developers talk about it in one of their developer diaries. They stop because all the shock troops have finally reached Europe, I guess.
    Huh. That explains it perfectly, thanks!
    Last edited by the_intricacy; 08-05-2012 at 21:39.

  7. #7
    First Lieutenant 31ric's Avatar
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    You should get Papacy Could have like x10 more cash :P

  8. #8
    Duke of Lothian Kagernaut's Avatar
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    Rofl, usurp the papacy! Call your own crusades and get a funny looking hat!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by 31ric View Post
    You should get Papacy Could have like x10 more cash :P
    Is it possible to vassalize the Pope anymore? I thought it wasn't. I do, however, have the three holy orders as vassals, one each in the three bishoprics of Bedford, my main dutchy.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_intricacy View Post
    Is it possible to vassalize the Pope anymore? I thought it wasn't. I do, however, have the three holy orders as vassals, one each in the three bishoprics of Bedford, my main dutchy.
    No idea if it is possible anymore.
    There is
    Code:
    k_papal_state = {
    ...
    	# Always exists
    	landless = yes
    ...
    	}
    }
    I checked last game and they didn't get land De Jure after 100 years. So no usurping i guess w/o cheats like "claim k_papal_state"

  11. #11
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    You absolutely can usurp the papacy and it still drifts. In my current game I am the Sunni caliph and the Pope.

    The papacy has to hold an entire duchy for 100 years. It can't hold just part of it, like the 2/3rds of Spoleto it starts with.

    As King of Aquitaine, I gave the Pope all of D. of Auvergne early on. 100 years later the Papacy was, de jure, the Duchy of Auvergne. Then I fabricated a claim on one of the counties, attacked, took the county, then usurped the duchy and The Papacy. I am the Pope.

    I get tons of cash but it is also really annoying because about once a week I get an event informing me that someone bought an indulgence. I don't get the money, I don't get any choices, and it pauses the game and I have to click through. No choice.

    I also get requests from people to excommunicate people or lift excommunications. I do have a choice about those. However, I have NO ability to excommunicate someone myself or to lift someone's excommunication myself.

    I also occasionally get events to demand that a ruler switch to Papal Investiture, but there's no benefit. Even though I'm pope, I apparently don't get to pick other people's bishops, even if they have Papal Investiture.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by grisamentum View Post
    In my current game I am the Sunni caliph and the Pope.
    Wow! How'd you become Caliph? Did you convert to Sunni? B/c, I can't seem to invite any Muslim claimants post 1.05, no matter how much cash I give them. Has anyone collected ALL the empire titles in one game?

    Quote Originally Posted by grisamentum View Post
    The papacy has to hold an entire duchy for 100 years. It can't hold just part of it, like the 2/3rds of Spoleto it starts with.
    Oops. As you can see from my 1366 map, I juuust kicked the Papacy off of Spoleto, and they were only 10 years from de jure shifting it!

    Quote Originally Posted by grisamentum View Post
    I get tons of cash but it is also really annoying because about once a week I get an event informing me that someone bought an indulgence. I don't get the money, I don't get any choices, and it pauses the game and I have to click through. No choice.
    Ick. Being emperor of 2/3rds of the map is bad enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by grisamentum View Post
    However, I have NO ability to excommunicate someone myself or to lift someone's excommunication myself.
    Just out curiosity, can you run an anti-pope while you're the pope? Are there any different piety bonuses? Can you press a crusade CB (or a jihad)?
    Last edited by the_intricacy; 08-05-2012 at 22:02.

  13. #13
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    You definitely can't start an anti-pope while pope: you can only turn a bishop into an anti-pope if the bishop likes YOU more than the POPE. So if YOU=POPE... the Bishop actually likes you the identical amount, and you don't satisfy the requirement "bishop likes YOU more than the POPE".

    However, if you already had an anti-pope before you usurped the de jure papacy... hmm. Not sure. Might be interesting.

    As far as becoming Caliph, it used to be easier, because you could marry a Caliph's daughter and your child with her would have a claim on the Caliphate. However, a female's claim isn't useful anymore because it can't be pressed on the caliphate since the caliphate is an agnatic title only, and she can't pass the claim any more to her own sons.

    The -easiest- way now is probably to convert early (2nd or 3rd generation) and fight your way up, and invite a claimant, and then matrilineally marry him to your own daughter, and use elective succession to nominate your grandson (or, eventually, nephew) as your heir. The Sunni Caliphate itself is not that big and powerful - it usually only holds a duchy and a half, or so, but it rarely gets attacked by its neighbors.

    However, converting isn't necessary at all. You can sometimes find a 2nd or 3rd son of a caliph with no titles, and arrange to matrilineally marry him to one of your daughters. IF the 2nd or 3rd son is not high in the succession (perhaps the 1st/2nd sons have several sons of their own, who take priority) then the caliph might allow it. Then, like above, you'll end up with a grandson with a claim on the caliphate who can also be your own heir through whatever means (elective is easiest.) But this does require a little luck as there isn't always an available son to matrilineally marry (nor even a significant daughter to matrilineally marry him to).

    At that point you launch the normal claim war and you'll end up with a Catholic Caliph. A few odd things happen:

    1. You're catholic, but still head of the sunni religion.
    2. As a result, Sunni Muslims will not attack you very much.
    3. As a head of a major orthodox religion, you can call crusades/jihads against kingdoms. But since you're Catholic, it only works against Muslims and Pagans. Thus, you're in a weird situation where you could call a crusade on a Muslim as the Caliph. I've done about 6 of these Caliphal Crusades and never seen a Catholic join (well, or a Muslim), so I am guessing that people are being prevented from joining for various reasons. You DO get the Crusader trait like you'd expect from a normal crusade.

  14. #14
    So, as to the OT: has anyone played as a Pagan and has a Tribal Invasion CB? Becuase it was my understanding that that didn't work. I suppose it's somewhat moot if Pagan DLC will flesh it out... someday.

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