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Thread: Expanding your De Jure kingdom

  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant Emperor Basil's Avatar
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    Expanding your De Jure kingdom

    Can someone explain to me how the de jure kingdoms change and what criteria is required for this to happen?

    When I look on the de jure kingdoms map I've noticed that certain territories in Anatolia are on there way to becoming the Sultanate of Rum and a couple in Southern Italy are becoming the Sultanate of Africa. But others aren't. Why?

    Is it possible to expand the de jure 'kingdom of Byzantium' playing as the Byzantine Empire?

  2. #2
    Field Marshal A_Dane's Avatar
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    If you hold a kingdom title, and all of a duchy in another kingdom, the de jure shift will start to happen.

    If you hold both kingdom titles though, it won't happen.
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  3. #3
    Second Lieutenant Emperor Basil's Avatar
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    What about if you hold a emperor title? I didn't make myself king of bulgaria for many years but nothing happened.

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    First Lieutenant XxIzualxX's Avatar
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    Only Kingdoms assimilate to Empires, Duchies do not. You have to hold or have a vassal of a de jure Kingdom for it to assimilate to your Empire.

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    Second Lieutenant Emperor Basil's Avatar
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    So the de jure kingdom of byzantium can not expand because it can not be extracted from its empire title.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Basil View Post
    So the de jure kingdom of byzantium can not expand because it can not be extracted from its empire title.
    Why not? I don't know the create conditions of the kingdom of bzy are, but if you gave the king a complete dutchy of anything, they would assimilate it over time.

  7. #7
    The Kingdom of Byzantium typically cannot be formed. Its creation condition is "Never."

    However, the way the new Crusades/Jihads work, a Muslim Jihad could target the Kingdom of Byzantium and a victory would, I've heard, create the Sultanate (Kingdom) of Byzantium. Apparently it works the same way with Khazaria, which also has a creation condition of "Never".

    The Byzantine Emperor title has no real relationship to a theoretical "King" title of Byzantium. You could, in theory, have the two be totally separate and co-exist.

    For example, the Byzantine Empire could conquer and hold Hungry for 100 years. Then Hungry would be, de jure, part of the ERE. Then the Sunni Caliph could call a Jihad against the Kingdom of Byzantium, which could be won by some random Emir, who'd become Sultan of Byzantium. At that point, the title exists and anyone could take it. You could have two geographically distinct Byzantiums.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by XxIzualxX View Post
    Only Kingdoms assimilate to Empires, Duchies do not. You have to hold or have a vassal of a de jure Kingdom for it to assimilate to your Empire.
    And not just the King title, but every single county in the kingdom.

  9. #9
    Second Lieutenant Emperor Basil's Avatar
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    I find this quite frustrating. Byzantium should be able to operate on a kingdom level as well.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Basil View Post
    I find this quite frustrating. Byzantium should be able to operate on a kingdom level as well.
    Well, you if you have a neighboring smaller crown, you could transfer all the Byzantium dukes under that crown, or split them up between several crowns. That's what I did instead of dealing with all those greek dukes.

    (see my Vassal map, I used the Bulgarian and Serbian crowns.)
    Last edited by the_intricacy; 08-05-2012 at 22:25.

  11. #11
    First Lieutenant 31ric's Avatar
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    De Jure Kingdom expand only on fully controlled de jure duchy. If you do not control, for example, 3/3 of some duchy, then expanding will not start. To be sure use "de jure kingdoms" map mode to see how lands are changing. Om mouse over you will see to whom it belongs and at which year */100 of conversion it is now

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by A_Dane View Post
    If you hold a kingdom title, and all of a duchy in another kingdom, the de jure shift will start to happen.

    If you hold both kingdom titles though, it won't happen.
    wrong! the de-jure drift is buggy. if u hold multiple kingtitles duchies from one kingdrom drift the another and the other vice versa.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by hooma View Post
    wrong! the de-jure drift is buggy. if u hold multiple kingtitles duchies from one kingdrom drift the another and the other vice versa.
    It depends on which is your primary and which is not, and other factors. I haven't noticed any bugginess with it, just that there are a lot of technicalities.

  14. #14
    Lt. General Stolen Rutters's Avatar
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    <ninja edited to be more clear and precise>
    It's not buggy. It's just that the Ducal title will drift if the Duke is a direct vassal to a non-deJure King and the duchy is not split between realms.

    If the ducal title does not exist, the duchy will drift towards your primary holding, so whether you own both titles or not is immaterial. The Counts, not subject to a Duke, would be your direct vassals, making your primary holding in effect the direct liege to the duchy.

    However, your primary title is immaterial if the ducal title exists. It is the Ducal primary holding that determines drift in that case, since that determines which of your titles is the Duke's direct liege.

    It's really that simple. The complications arise from the many combinations possible when you pick up more kingdom titles and the many Dukes start acquiring land across your kingdoms messing up your nice and neat duchies, and moving their realm capitals to and fro messing up your assimilation plans before you have a chance to integrate everything under one crown.

    last edit - Though you reduce monthly prestige when making Kingdom titles titular so I'm not entirely sure it's the most beneficial way to maximize score. It would have to be a personal preference.
    Last edited by Stolen Rutters; 08-05-2012 at 22:49. Reason: clarification
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  15. #15
    Here's me shifting part of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Brittany, and part of france with one vassal. Notice he's vassal to the crown of england, even though it isn't even my primary or only kingdom.

    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...5&d=1336501712

    my dutchy map:

    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...2&d=1336499660

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