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Thread: Missing feature: schools of magic

  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant PawelS's Avatar

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    Missing feature: schools of magic

    One of the things I miss in Warlock are different schools of magic. They exist in other games of this kind, like Master of Magic and Age of Wonders series - different wizards specialize in different schools of magic that enable them to research different spells. There are religious spells that differentiate wizards in later stages of the game, but still I don't like the fact that all wizards can research all kinds of non-religious ones. There should be wizards that specialize in Life magic (healing and protective spells), Chaos magic (destructive spells), Death magic (weakness and undead summons), and so on.

    I think it would be a good idea to add this feature in an expansion, especially if more spells are added to the game.

  2. #2
    I think more definition in the research department is needed. Five random spells that never change unless you research one is kind of... I don't like it. Perhaps have all the spells divided into schools and you pick a school to research; all the spells are slightly randomized, but maintain an overall upward slope in time needed to research them as well as relative power (so Shadow Bolt never comes before Lesser Shadow Bolt for example). Make the reqiurement to research the Unity spell that you must finish researching 3 schools of magic (out of 5 let's say). You always see what your next spell will be when you pick which school to research.

    I think this system would provide a lot more structure to how spells are researched while also adding a set path to the Unity victory condition. It would also bring in PawelS idea of Schools of Magic.

  3. #3
    M.I.A 2Coats's Avatar
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    Lets just say that Im not a huge fan of the current implementation... however, I do agree that randomising the tree and research path makes for more interesting games, when you dont know what you are going to get from turn to turn.

    Imo having it this way keeps the magic aspect of gameplay fresh from game to game. At least until the end game when youve got more spells than mana!
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  4. #4
    I'm not sure "schools" really fit with the Majesty lore/flavor? But I do agree that it honestly feels like a missing feature, and without it it does seem that the spells blur together a little bit. But I kind of want to try out the current version before I really say so definitely.

  5. #5
    The implementation would seem ideal for the first expansion... or DLC.

  6. #6
    Second Lieutenant GeneralGonzo's Avatar
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    At least I would like to see some kind of chosing 1 out of 2 spells while the one you denied wonīt be available to you anymore....
    With this "specialization" you arenīt able to get all spells all the time....

  7. #7
    Despite lacking a defined "school" system, can't one sort their known spells by a number of catagories like their damage type, if the summon, etc? Isn't that sufficient?

  8. #8
    I agree that a purely random research list isn't ideal, plus I don't like the fact that it only changes when you research a spell - this means that you soon end up with little choice as the spells you didn't like three spells ago are still there. A fixed research tree - like Civ - isn't the solution.

    The combining spells into schools is a good idea.

    The way I would do it is.
    Each spell is in a school, and has a base weighting (could be negative for more advanced spells). This is then increased by each other spell in the school you know, and possibly reduced by each spell in the opposed school. You also get a bonus based on research points. This modified weighting is then used to bias the selection of which spell you get added to the researchable list.

    You could then add some Wizard abilities:
    Specialist - bonus and penalties for knowing spells increased, bonus for research points decreased.
    Generalist - bonus and penalties for knowing spells decreased, bonus for research points increased.


    This doesn't stop spells you don't want slowly filling researchable list, I can think of several options:
    a) When you research a spell one of the spells is replaced. This could be the oldest, or random based on reversed weighting. You could also include the research spell in the selection - so if it is selected you only get one new spell added to the list.
    b) Instead of researching a spell you can reject a spell - this takes a turn, and removes the spell from the list. This should also permanently prevent the spell reappearing, or significantly reduce its weighting. It could also give a penalty to the weighting of other spells in the college.
    c) You have the option to not research any spell. While doing so research points are converted to mana. Each turn one spell on the list may be replaced.
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  9. #9
    General ashbery76's Avatar
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    Static research trees are boring.I much prefer random elements that counter optimised paths.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ashbery76 View Post
    Static research trees are boring.I much prefer random elements that counter optimised paths.
    Amen, I love the randomness.

  11. #11
    First Lieutenant UncleJJ's Avatar
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    I like the randomness. Having only played the demo a few times I can appreciate how random spells affect the strategy in . We really should wait for the game to be released and get some solid playing experience under our belts before trying to change things too much.

    P.S. My first post after waiting days for the forum to allow posting. That is so frustrating.

  12. #12
    Second Lieutenant PawelS's Avatar

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    Randomness within a school is a good thing, but generally weaker spells should come before the stronger ones.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PawelS View Post
    Randomness within a school is a good thing, but generally weaker spells should come before the stronger ones.
    This.

  14. #14
    Your Friendly Dictator Grubnessul's Avatar
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    Indeed. I'm always confused why I would research lesser shadow bolt when I can get normal shadow bolt before.
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    M.I.A 2Coats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubnessul View Post
    Indeed. I'm always confused why I would research lesser shadow bolt when I can get normal shadow bolt before.
    Theres always the chance of receiving the later version of a spell well before you can research the lesser version. Quests rewards or den looting. It depends how lucky you are.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubnessul View Post
    Indeed. I'm always confused why I would research lesser shadow bolt when I can get normal shadow bolt before.
    Why not?
    Their cost effectiveness is similar, so maybe you want to spend less mana when attacking some target.

    Also, if you find yourself in situation when you don't need any of 5 available spells to research, it's good strategy to get to research the cheapest one, and quickly get to choose new spell.

  17. #17
    Since I just played a session of Fallen Enchantress I have to concur, random non-linear techs are more fun and interesting. We need more of that and I think these guys are on to something new here.

    Fantasy strategy games need to be more like good fantasy books and less like Excel Spreadsheets.

  18. #18
    I agree with the subject of the thread, and would like to see some type of grouping be done to the magic aspect. Of course, I only speak with Demo experience, but as of now that is my opinion.

  19. #19
    Second Lieutenant stuie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsurferswe View Post
    Fantasy strategy games need to be more like good fantasy books and less like Excel Spreadsheets.
    This.

    I'm tired of games showing you everything; leave some of the magic behind the curtain.

    Edit: And to the subject, yes, some implementation of schools/specialization for magic would be cool.
    Last edited by stuie; 08-05-2012 at 03:34.
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  20. #20
    I'm sorry to interfere your discussion, but we thought that divine spells are some sort of different schools of magic. So we have a lot of Arcane spells available to all mages and a pack of very powerful divine spells of every god available only for their followers. Also you can choose to follow specific god in Great Mage customization window on start - and gain corresponding benefits from the very beginning.

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