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Thread: Join the Crusade? NAH.

  1. #1

    Join the Crusade? NAH.

    If you're playing a Catholic power not capable of winning a crusade singlehandedly (i.e. not England, France, HRE), under what circumstances would you still join a crusade, if ever? Would the Pope mind if you join his crusade, send your troops so you and your heir get the crusader trait, then send everyone home without fighting a single heathen? (Sounds gamey but I'm tempted to do this to nullify the "not crusading" malus)

    Somewhat related: Post 1.05d/e, is it normal for France and HRE to get embroiled in civil wars more often and thus not join any crusade at all? In my current game, it seems none of the 3 majors join in the Pope's crusades so he just fails all the time. Spain is all muslim, the Shia Caliphate is slowly eaten up by the ERE.

  2. #2
    Sharing the spoils of war between everyone who contributes more than, say 5% or something like that, with the biggest contributer getting the most, number 2 second most, and so forth, would be nice. I'd like to see the Kingdom being divided among the crusading nations.

  3. #3
    Seeing how you get prestige for actually fighting and piety and prestige are the only actual objectives the game gives you (its more about choosing your own objectives but it still gives you a score) there's really no reason not to join wars all the time and send your troops off to fight in battles all over the place. In the end territory just gives you a monthly prestige bonus.

  4. #4
    General Fawr's Avatar
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    Crusading can also get rid of the excommunicated trait.

    But just like with getting the crusader trait for your leaders there doesn't seem much need to follow through on the crusade properly.

  5. #5
    General apg's Avatar
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    i agree with clykke - the spoils should be divided up between the contributors, not just the main contributor getting EVERYTHING.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Closet Skeleton View Post
    In the end territory just gives you a monthly prestige bonus.
    ...and a real world sense of pride and accomplishment.

  7. #7
    Mr Pope: Join the Crusade! Join the Crusade! Join the Crusade! Join the Crusade! Join the Crusade! Join the Crusade! Join the Crusade! Join the Crusade! Join the Crusade! Join the Crusade! Join the Crusade! Join the Crusade!

    1. HRE, England, France join.
    Me: They're going to get the lion's spoils. NAH, not gonna join!

    2. HRE, England, France all torn apart with civil wars thanks to 1.05d++ and not joining
    Me: We're not going to have enough troops to even make the Caliph sneeze. NAH, not gonna join!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Akikonomu View Post
    If you're playing a Catholic power not capable of winning a crusade singlehandedly (i.e. not England, France, HRE), under what circumstances would you still join a crusade, if ever? Would the Pope mind if you join his crusade, send your troops so you and your heir get the crusader trait, then send everyone home without fighting a single heathen? (Sounds gamey but I'm tempted to do this to nullify the "not crusading" malus)

    Somewhat related: Post 1.05d/e, is it normal for France and HRE to get embroiled in civil wars more often and thus not join any crusade at all? In my current game, it seems none of the 3 majors join in the Pope's crusades so he just fails all the time. Spain is all muslim, the Shia Caliphate is slowly eaten up by the ERE.
    I always join any crusade just to get a Crusader trait. It helps a lot.

  9. #9
    General nyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clykke View Post
    I'd like to see the Kingdom being divided among the crusading nations.
    So no crusader kingdom (ie Jerusalem) would ever be formed. Just lots of european nations owning bits of the middle east, as per pre-1.05.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by nyah View Post
    So no crusader kingdom (ie Jerusalem) would ever be formed. Just lots of european nations owning bits of the middle east, as per pre-1.05.
    The kingdom of Jerusalem would be formed if
    a) someone forms it later after conquering/inheriting holdings from other crusading nations - like it happens everywhere else
    b) someone contributes more than 50%, in which case they could be given 50% of the holdings and be able to form the kingdom (could be automatic)

  11. #11
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    Crusader trait, I don't care about land or piety, but give me that trait NOW

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by clykke View Post
    The kingdom of Jerusalem would be formed if
    a) someone forms it later after conquering/inheriting holdings from other crusading nations - like it happens everywhere else
    b) someone contributes more than 50%, in which case they could be given 50% of the holdings and be able to form the kingdom (could be automatic)
    a) This "later" will never come since muslims will crush small pieces of land one by one.
    b) even if he forms a kingdom, he will not get lands. It will still be small bits of land.

    Just to visualise possible outcomes (total number of provinces is random):

    Kingdom of France owns KoJ title and 4 provinces.
    Holy Roman Empire owns 2 provinces.
    Kingdom of Poland owns 1 province.
    Kingdom of Leon owns 1 province.
    Kingdom of England owns 1 province.

    How would you make a unified KoJ from this mess?

  13. #13
    the Conqueror Peter Ebbesen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akikonomu View Post
    If you're playing a Catholic power not capable of winning a crusade singlehandedly (i.e. not England, France, HRE), under what circumstances would you still join a crusade, if ever?
    Every single time.

    The +30 rep bonus for "both crusader" is worth its weight in gold and you get that as well as a decent amount of prestige/piety* for showing up, so the question should rather be, who the hell can come up with a good reason NOT to join every single crusade with every vassal he has - even if he joins only to visit the crusade target and then return home?

    And, of course, if enough others join that the crusade is likely to succeed, then it is time to try to attempt to occupy a holding or two to get some rolling contribution to the crusade score and a payoff at the end using only vassal troops, if possible, to cut down on your own expenses.


    * a decent amount for somebody not capable of winning a crusade, I mean; For somebody who's capable of winning crusades singlehandedly, the bonus is pretty irrelevant.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by avee View Post
    a) This "later" will never come since muslims will crush small pieces of land one by one.
    b) even if he forms a kingdom, he will not get lands. It will still be small bits of land.

    Just to visualise possible outcomes (total number of provinces is random):

    Kingdom of France owns KoJ title and 4 provinces.
    Holy Roman Empire owns 2 provinces.
    Kingdom of Poland owns 1 province.
    Kingdom of Leon owns 1 province.
    Kingdom of England owns 1 province.

    How would you make a unified KoJ from this mess?
    How about this?
    Kingdom of France owns KoJ title and 5 provinces, and has enough counties to form the kingdom. This gives him de jure claim on the other provinces.
    Holy Roman Empire owns 2 provinces.
    Kingdom of Poland owns 1 province.
    Kingdom of Leon owns 1 province.

    The de jure claims are easy to press, because of distance.

  15. #15
    Second Lieutenant
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    has someone notice that when a crusade is call you can intend to participate get the crusader trait and get +25 opinion without sending any armies at all !

  16. #16
    As a duke it is very easy to out-class the HRE/France/England and win the crusader state. Just play smart, pick the right battles and save some gold for mercs.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonOfArgos View Post
    As a duke it is very easy to out-class the HRE/France/England and win the crusader state. Just play smart, pick the right battles and save some gold for mercs.
    This. I started as Flanders and by the end of the First Crusade I was King of Jerusalem.

  18. #18
    Major Paul Drye's Avatar
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    As others have said, the Crusader trait is very, very nice, and can basically stabilize your kingdom all by itself if you're careful to make sure that you, your heir, and all your vassals get it. I also tend to stick around for a while because you can gain the Zealous trait after a battle with the infidel, and that's nice too.
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  19. #19
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    I just had a Crusade for Jerusalem show up in my multiplayer game and I'm definitely going.

    Then again I am the largest independent state army wise and starting from Aragon conquered 3/4 of spain, All of Mauretania, Croatia, Apulia, and parts of Sicily + Rome/Venice/Genoa. given that I just took over France who owned the rest of spain (and france) I think I can crush Shia single handedly and don't see how anyone can beat me in warscore.

    My only real competition is my mp buddy who is England/Ireland/Scotland and has about half my levees.
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  20. #20
    First Lieutenant Zealuu's Avatar
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    Even when it turns into a game of Crusader Dukes + Croatia, I still tend to send down a couple of guys just to nab the trait and to get the pope off my case.
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