Low population?

[Thorke]

Salem will overall never manage to get many players and will thus never succeed with it's current mechanics.

Depends on who is deciding on the criteria for success. If the developers and publisher believe they have succeeded (which would probably require some minimum number of happy customers), then the game can certainly be considered a success; however, if one judges a success based on a comparison to WoW subscription numbers, then only MMOs that appeal to the widest audience can succeed and why would anybody bother making games that stray from the tried-and-true formula?

[sammage]

It's astonishing how many people are framing this as a pvpers vs crafters, wrong expectations of the game problem. The reason the population is low is more likely because the game just isn't very good right now. A combination of shallow, grindy crafting and character development and a terrible combat system just make it easier to just play once, die and stop playing. Both aspects of the game are just not there right now. The main thing for the devs to take from this all is that the game doesn't have enough features yet to call this a beta. Both combat and crafting systems need a lot of work and changes, not just tweaking numbers, if they want to retain a population. It's delusional to think this is a problem of people whining they died or random pkers - the game just does not hold interest yet. It's got potential to be special once more stuff is in, and there have already been a couple of excellent moments with the game as is (like the dev being killed by double hitting sword thrusts), but good stories aren't enough if the game isn't actually fun to play.

[JohnChandos]

It's astonishing how many people are framing this as a pvpers vs crafters, wrong expectations of the game problem. The reason the population is low is more likely because the game just isn't very good right now. A combination of shallow, grindy crafting and character development and a terrible combat system just make it easier to just play once, die and stop playing. Both aspects of the game are just not there right now. The main thing for the devs to take from this all is that the game doesn't have enough features yet to call this a beta. Both combat and crafting systems need a lot of work and changes, not just tweaking numbers, if they want to retain a population. It's delusional to think this is a problem of people whining they died or random pkers - the game just does not hold interest yet. It's got potential to be special once more stuff is in, and there have already been a couple of excellent moments with the game as is (like the dev being killed by double hitting sword thrusts), but good stories aren't enough if the game isn't actually fun to play.

+1. I think the testers would have been a lot more forgiving if the devs just came out and admitted this is an alpha stage for the game. Right now the reaction is (mine included) "OMG, this is beta for a Q3 release?!" which puts a cap on the expectations of how much things can change within that time-frame. I hope Seatribe and Paradox will have the good sense to not rush the release.

[MagicManICT]

I don't really know how Paradox handles their developers and contracts. I've never followed one of their games from launch to finish before. Seatribe might get all the time they need to polish Salem up all nice and pretty and make it as good a quality as can be reasonably done for an MMO before release, but if I were to presume any one company operates like the rest of the industry, the pressure will be on to get as much of it done by the deadline as possible.

[razgon]

Skyrage. The current trend of mmo games is leaving fantasy, and treading towards hardcore, pvp, modern-day, and permadeath. (several permadeath mmos have been announced in the past year infact, 2 are believed to be big hits right from the start.) When I read about salem, I started watching it since last year, the people here would consider me as a "farmer". The reason why I chose to come to salem? Because I read it had perma death, open pvp, clues/scents and offline justice, and yet I am a farmer/merchant first, and combat later. Because all these other games have no real penalty system. Die 1million times, and big whoop. Then games instituted drop your items. Was a nice change of pace, but after a while, it was again: Big whoop?

Perma death? Hell yes, thats as extreme as it gets. I don't make alts, I NEVER make alts, I always stick with 1 character, in all games, no exception. So hearing the news that if I die, my character is forced to start off brand new except for the crap hes built? That makes me jump for joy. Instead of going along with nascar gameplay, (making another left turn... And another left turn....yay... -_-) the likely hood that I,ll make it to end game is low. Constant, CONSTANT danger, threat of dieing and having to restart, losing your skills you labored over... God how good it would feel. Sure dieing sucks, but if there is no bad in games, then whats the point? There is no thrill, no danger, npc's are nothing! And knowing all this it makes the rewards even more sweeter. Manage to kill your attacker? Hahahaha holy @#%* is that even better! You would feel like a god during those moments, instead of the usual, boring, crap your force fed by millions of clone games. (All new Pepsi Fantasy XIIIV: New character names!, New art!, Slightly changed gameplay!! Come get yours today!)

This game is going to rock hard, and I expect there will start being clones of these perma death games until all gamers will ever play are perma death games.

Sefer - Can I ask what games you are referring to that trends towards hardcore pvp modern day and permadeath? I follow the MMO scene somewhat closely, but somehow these seems to escape me?

[sanguinius40]

It's astonishing how many people are framing this as a pvpers vs crafters, wrong expectations of the game problem. The reason the population is low is more likely because the game just isn't very good right now. A combination of shallow, grindy crafting and character development and a terrible combat system just make it easier to just play once, die and stop playing. Both aspects of the game are just not there right now. The main thing for the devs to take from this all is that the game doesn't have enough features yet to call this a beta. Both combat and crafting systems need a lot of work and changes, not just tweaking numbers, if they want to retain a population. It's delusional to think this is a problem of people whining they died or random pkers - the game just does not hold interest yet. It's got potential to be special once more stuff is in, and there have already been a couple of excellent moments with the game as is (like the dev being killed by double hitting sword thrusts), but good stories aren't enough if the game isn't actually fun to play.

+1. I think the testers would have been a lot more forgiving if the devs just came out and admitted this is an alpha stage for the game. Right now the reaction is (mine included) "OMG, this is beta for a Q3 release?!" which puts a cap on the expectations of how much things can change within that time-frame. I hope Seatribe and Paradox will have the good sense to not rush the release.

this is a joke right? I am sure you ahve all played minecraft and seen its success. it basically was sold when it was still in alpha. I payed for it. Salem is the same, they will likely be constantly updating it for years to come, so what if it gets released when it finally reaches beta status? it is an amazing game, and sure there is alot to be added, but would you rather wait for everything to be 100% finished, or would you like to play a game that is updated more then weekly, which is the current trend so far, with alot of changes and balances coming with every update. I really dont see why you would complain about grinding either, name one mmo that doesnt require lots of time input in order to be competitive. I myself have been doing alot of terraforming the last few days, sure it sucks, and is slow, but at the end you see what you have changed overall, and its a big deal. but then I noticed that a dirt bag, or wheelbarrow could be added to make carrying dirt and terraforming easier, since the trip distance is the biggest issue I have. that is why this game is not released yet. Fishing is one thing I would like to see added before release, as well as a rework of the combat system. as crafting goes, they have alot of stuff already, and are only going to add more. If you want to stop playing the beta, then you should not have signed up to play an incomplete game, but I am sure when you signed up all you were think is zomg a new game to play!!!! and not oh goodie I get to test a game, to make it better, and learn the intricate mechanics so that when it is RELEASED I will not only have an edge, but can say that I helped shape this game.

[Diqbudt]

but if I were to presume any one company operates like the rest of the industry, the pressure will be on to get as much of it done by the deadline as possible.

Paradox isn't known for behaving like normal video game companies.

[Stuckenschmidt]

Paradox isn't known for behaving like normal video game companies.

Considering Gettysburg I`m not sure how exactly you have meant this.