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Thread: How can I do this? And should I?

  1. #1

    How can I do this? And should I?

    Hi there,

    I have been asking a few people about something concerning CKII which is puzzling me. What it concerns is the change in law by the ruler of a particular region. The main point in question is that, once a law is changed, it will affect the vassals negatively or positively. I have no problem with this. However, what I am wondering why, say, a levy change that was raised in 1066 would still be problem for vassals 400 years down the line. Surely, by this point the vassal - and their liege - would view the law change as normal or at least not have as much of a problem with it as their predecessors did initially. I am just wondering what the community thinks of this and would be grateful if someone could point out if I was missing something.

    If you do believe what I am saying is valid, I'd appreciate if you wouldn't mind sharing how to make the opinion of vassals towards you shift slowly back to neutral.

    Thank you in advance,

    Pickup

  2. #2
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    Is this not already the case?
    If you change a law it gives -30(?) opinion toward the ruler who changed it and -5/10/20..etc. towards all rulers as long as the law is still enabled, I think.. I could be wrong.

  3. #3
    First Lieutenant Goldor2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebbedan View Post
    Is this not already the case?
    If you change a law it gives -30(?) opinion toward the ruler who changed it and -5/10/20..etc. towards all rulers as long as the law is still enabled, I think.. I could be wrong.
    Yes, he was asking about how to change it so that after time the -5/10/20 could be made to go away as it's fairly silly that 300 years down the line they are still pissed at what has been tradition and how things have been run for so long.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldor2005 View Post
    Yes, he was asking about how to change it so that after time the -5/10/20 could be made to go away as it's fairly silly that 300 years down the line they are still pissed at what has been tradition and how things have been run for so long.
    Exactly right. I just can't personally see the logic of this but I am open to hearing any reasons as to why it is as it is at the moment.

  5. #5
    First Lieutenant BaronVonHarry's Avatar
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    Taxes have been around from the beginning civilization. People are still pissed about it. Im sure anytime a King raises your max levies and makes you pay for it all, its still going to irk you.

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    Field Marshal Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pickup View Post
    Exactly right. I just can't personally see the logic of this but I am open to hearing any reasons as to why it is as it is at the moment.
    Balance reasons, I imagine. Otherwise it's just a no-brainer to jack up your levy laws to maximum as soon as possible.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by BaronVonHarry View Post
    Taxes have been around from the beginning civilization. People are still pissed about it. Im sure anytime a King raises your max levies and makes you pay for it all, its still going to irk you.
    I am inclined to agree. My only point is people would perhaps be less pissed over time.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Garak View Post
    Balance reasons, I imagine. Otherwise it's just a no-brainer to jack up your levy laws to maximum as soon as possible.
    This is a valid point, yeah. However, I do think it would make sense that surely people who aren't even related to the original vassals who benefited/lost from the law change, let alone remember it, would care so much. Perhaps there is a way around this, do you think? It is true that you have to wait a certain number of years, for example, to change law. Perhaps this could just increase? Else, it may not be worth it.

    EDIT: Sorry for the double post.

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    Corporal bonnieprince's Avatar
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    Not sure how to change it, but i'd imagine the justification is that you'd still be annoyed as your liege is still taking more taxes or levees, which cost you, regardless of how long it has been done. Kinda like how we still get annoyed we have to pay taxes despite them being there for a long time, but we're probably a bit less annoyed than our ancestors who previously had no taxes.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bonnieprince View Post
    Not sure how to change it, but i'd imagine the justification is that you'd still be annoyed as your liege is still taking more taxes or levees, which cost you, regardless of how long it has been done. Kinda like how we still get annoyed we have to pay taxes despite them being there for a long time, but we're probably a bit less annoyed than our ancestors who previously had no taxes.
    Hello bonnie.

    I agree completely with what you're saying. I think vassals should be pissed to some extent, if we accept that taxes are always going to cause some kind of gripe. My only query is why the level of irritation stays on for 400+ potentially. I can understand if the levies were continually raised over a period of time or if they were jacked up to the max, as Garak was saying. But I've kept my levies and taxes pretty low for 100 years now and people are still just as annoyed as they were when my father implemented them! Haha, I was just wondering if there's any way of making these opinions regressive (or progressive, as the case may be).

  11. #11
    First Lieutenant BaronVonHarry's Avatar
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    Raising feudal taxes results in -10 opinion and raising levy requirements is -5, thats a really minor impairment. I would consider that an acceptable amount of irritation from the vassals even over a long period of time. Lowering those figures doesnt make any sense to me.

    I think the best way to reflect your idea is to implement a short term "You raised taxes" penalty similar to the "Raised Crown Authority" penalty. Maybe fade it out.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by BaronVonHarry View Post
    Raising feudal taxes results in -10 opinion and raising levy requirements is -5, thats a really minor impairment. I would consider that an acceptable amount of irritation from the vassals even over a long period of time. Lowering those figures doesnt make any sense to me.

    I think the best way to reflect your idea is to implement a short term "You raised taxes" penalty similar to the "Raised Crown Authority" penalty. Maybe fade it out.
    Hello Harry,

    I agree. Perhaps raising the levies to a small amount is not too large a price to pay in terms of a vassals negative opinion. I would say that I was thinking of applying this both when the vassals respond negatively and positively, just to make things fair and balanced. The only reason I raise this is for the sake of realism and just to tweak the game a little. I personally don't find it much of a hindrance when the levies and taxes are low (which is as I keep them anyway) but see this as a problem if I ever go above that.

    I like the idea you say on how to implement it. I believe if the 'fade out' was a percentage of the opinion, then it would reflect a much smaller change either way if the levies/taxes were only raised marginally.


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