APD 3.0.2 download/feedback thread

[TheTjord]

Unfortunately, changes in economy only pushed the worldwide crisis towards ~1890; after that, again, we have massive overflow of goods, mass unemployment of craftsmen and as effect of the latter, crazy migration issues (in my Korea game i had, without many reforms and WITH mass unemployment (~80% of crafs/clerks), emigration around 2k and immigration around 8k per month. I am almost scared to look into Americas)

There is also strange issue with canned food; when in worldwide production is around 150% of demand, and my CF factories are extremely unprofitable (lvl 1 bakery gives around 300-400$ losses per day), most of my pops are UNABLE to attain/afford it. Lowering taxes helps a bit, but it also ruins my budget.

[Dichromate]

Unfortunately, changes in economy only pushed the worldwide crisis towards ~1890; after that, again, we have massive overflow of goods, mass unemployment of craftsmen and as effect of the latter, crazy migration issues (in my Korea game i had, without many reforms and WITH mass unemployment (~80% of crafs/clerks), emigration around 2k and immigration around 8k per month. I am almost scared to look into Americas)

Perhaps rather than being the innocent 19th century grand strategy game that it purports to be, Victoria 2 is actually a sinister piece of interactive propaganda, created solely to force us all to recognize the inherent contradictions of capitalism.

[theodorium]

[...]There is also strange issue with canned food; when in worldwide production is around 150% of demand, and my CF factories are extremely unprofitable (lvl 1 bakery gives around 300-400$ losses per day), most of my pops are UNABLE to attain/afford it. Lowering taxes helps a bit, but it also ruins my budget.

Not so strange...If you have a massive overflow of goods and therefore high unemployment, each POP has a high percentage of unemployed units; the working ones are not buying enough to cover for the unemployed ones, hence the inability to afford food. Maybe the remedy should be an induced increase in demand, like making around 1880-1890 available globaly an event that gives automatically some unemployment benefits like the ones that already exist and give trinket healthcare and so; therefore all the unemployed would at least buy food, and the pressure on immigration would be reduced somewhat...

[theodorium]

silly question: if I delete the map cache of my documents\paradox\victoria 2, I get JQGW
if I delete the map cache of my documents\paradox\victoria 2\PDM as per instructions in post#1, I get OGMW. Which is it?

[Naselus]

Perhaps rather than being the innocent 19th century grand strategy game that it purports to be, Victoria 2 is actually a sinister piece of interactive propaganda, created solely to force us all to recognize the inherent contradictions of capitalism.

Write three economies for V2, and you'll realize that's exactly what it is - Das Kapital is by far the most useful reference book for Vickynomics.

[Naselus]

Unfortunately, changes in economy only pushed the worldwide crisis towards ~1890; after that, again, we have massive overflow of goods, mass unemployment of craftsmen and as effect of the latter, crazy migration issues (in my Korea game i had, without many reforms and WITH mass unemployment (~80% of crafs/clerks), emigration around 2k and immigration around 8k per month. I am almost scared to look into Americas)

There is also strange issue with canned food; when in worldwide production is around 150% of demand, and my CF factories are extremely unprofitable (lvl 1 bakery gives around 300-400$ losses per day), most of my pops are UNABLE to attain/afford it. Lowering taxes helps a bit, but it also ruins my budget.

Well, that at least means it's moving in the right direction :P Could you post a save around 1890 please? I could do with a good look at the late-game economy, and it'd be helpful to see exactly what's happening here - if it's a temporary downturn causing a depression spiral, then I don't mind it, but if it's a structural issue it'll need to be addressed. It's also worth noting I didn't really change the economy itself - just the techs and money supply - so some changes in the baseline may well be required.

[TheTjord]

Save from 1902

Note: the only nation that have flourishing industry is Russia, with great Chinese market in sphere. My Industrial score dropped form ~150 to ~90 in 30 years, simply because none of my factories provide profits for more than 2-3 years.

Not so strange...If you have a massive overflow of goods and therefore high unemployment, each POP has a high percentage of unemployed units; the working ones are not buying enough to cover for the unemployed ones, hence the inability to afford food.

Problem is, that Canned Food is generally ONLY type of goods that pops can't afford, no matter if it is 0% or 95% unemployment POP. I think that problem is not that pops can;t afford CF, they somehow cannot obtain it: e.g. for testing purposes I built several CF factories and subsidized them for around year; situation with POPs improved drastically, but i was forced to abandon this policy because subsidies generated three times more deficit than I could afford even with 100% taxes.

Maybe the remedy should be an induced increase in demand, like making around 1880-1890 available globaly an event that gives automatically some unemployment benefits like the ones that already exist and give trinket healthcare and so; therefore all the unemployed would at least buy food, and the pressure on immigration would be reduced somewhat...

Again, for testing purposes I tried pushing Pensions/Unemployed Subsidies reforms to max, but it didn't help at all.

[Naselus]

In future, please god zip your saves :P it'll reduce the 35 meg file to about 3.5 meg, which makes my poor little wireless connect much happier.

[Arthasus]

One thing I've noticed. As USA I had no promotions to Bureaucrats in my colonies. It's 1886 and I still have 0,01% Bureaucrats in Nevada Utah (from migrations I guess) and 0 in e.g Wisconsin.

[Naselus]

Bah, the military unciv reforms are still adding up to 90% >< That's probably causing some issues right there. Other than that, it actually looks pretty good late-game - tho I'm guessing we might need a few structural reforms.

[Carles li Reis]

Bah, the military unciv reforms are still adding up to 90% >< That's probably causing some issues right there. Other than that, it actually looks pretty good late-game - tho I'm guessing we might need a few structural reforms.

Do you mean that the economy doesn't collapse around 1890?

[Naselus]

Do you mean that the economy doesn't collapse around 1890?

There's not universal overproduction, but mostly it's impossible to get any serious results with half the uncivs in the world failing to civilize and industrialize.

[Carles li Reis]

There's not universal overproduction, but mostly it's impossible to get any serious results with half the uncivs in the world failing to civilize and industrialize.

Is there any chance this can be dealt with a hotfix?

[Robotkiller]

Is there any chance this can be dealt with a hotfix?

No, it's a problem with the AI, which is hardcoded. Paradox has to fix this.

[Naselus]

I can change the value of unciv reforms and upload them as a hotfix, but I dunno if it'll be retroactive in savegames etc. But I've got a pretty laid-back week ahead, so I'll probably do some tinkering and have 3.0.3 out on Monday/Tuesday. Probably involving more ouput and throughput trimming, tbh, and maybe a cut in RGO output too.

[Carles li Reis]

I would definitively appreciate such a hotfix/instruction on which value to modify.

[ETTAR]

Whenever I attempt to run this version of the mod I get the following error during map generation.

File exception!

File exception:
Exception in: virtualfilesystem.ccp, line:624. Description: The system cannot fine the file specified.

I've tried re installing both the mod and Victoria II itself, and yet the problem still persists.
Strange, I've never had any issues with APD nor PDM.

[theodorium]

Save from 1902

Problem is, that Canned Food is generally ONLY type of goods that pops can't afford, no matter if it is 0% or 95% unemployment POP. I think that problem is not that pops can;t afford CF, they somehow cannot obtain it: e.g. for testing purposes I built several CF factories and subsidized them for around year; situation with POPs improved drastically, but i was forced to abandon this policy because subsidies generated three times more deficit than I could afford even with 100% taxes.
Again, for testing purposes I tried pushing Pensions/Unemployed Subsidies reforms to max, but it didn't help at all.

well, I played your save game for a year and I came to the opposite conclusion:

in your save, you had a deficit of -800 daily, 66 partially fed poor strata and 4 CF factories running at -45 per day. total unemployed clerks 171.6k, crafts 667k
I increased the benefits from 11% to 100% and from second scale to last one(50% to full scale-100%)
three months later, partially fed poor strata was at 40%, CF factories were running at a solid +45 a day, unemployment was reduced by 10k and 20k respectively.

I still insist that the problem is you had insufficient demand. And, at 171.6k unempoyed clerks, why were 4 out of 6 NF spent on clerk promotion?

[theodorium]

[...] Probably involving more ouput and throughput trimming, tbh, and maybe a cut in RGO output too.

well, I loaded Tjord's save; in 1902 there were 6.05mil artisans in china, when 1836 scenario starts with 5.08 mil. Could the extra million of artisans causing part of the overflow of goods?
moreover, in his save, I checked the trade tab and here is what I found:
total production of CF was 23.6k while the total demand was 19.4k.
Steel: S 22.2k, D 12.2k.
Amm:S 7.6K, D 5.3K.

In all, I would hesitate messing with the throughput, especially since it is the only thing allowing factories to remain green after social reforms are enacted (like the ones affecting maintenance costs , hour of work etc). I still have no idea about game mechanics, but I believe that it is demand that must be raised to catch up with supply and not the other way around. So I would suggest the following:
- trim only the base output of factories; in 1836 a single fully staffed artillery factory can cover 15% of world demand; in 1902 korea, Tjord could feed his entire population with only 2-3 CF factories.
-reduce the ability of china to make more artisans.
-increase the materials needed to make a factory in the first place (thus increasing demand and making factories hardet to make in the same time). I would also increase the materials needed for forts, naval bases and railroads for the same reason).

[Naselus]

I would definitively appreciate such a hotfix/instruction on which value to modify.

Open issues.txt in the common folder, scroll down to the unciv military reforms, and change one of them from civ progress = 0.05 to 0.15.