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Thread: Ranged Weapons / Infinite ammo

  1. #21
    I agree with beowolf, i would like the very high damage that missile weapons provided, but with realistic amount of carried amunition. An archer could probably carry 200 if he had them in a basket on his back but the quiver that beo showed is probably the mount you could carry around in combat.

    If the damage is really high and ammo still in quantity you could always remove the crosshair for ranged weapons so that it's more a gut feeling, it worked well in the vikingr mod while it was there.

  2. #22
    I don't see why a second quiver would limit your mobility at all. The second quiver usually goes at the hip, right? Just make them replace their sword for it.

  3. #23
    Lt. General Beowulf1990's Avatar
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    That'll work better actually.
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  4. #24
    A second quiver probably would'n slow you down more than a sword, but someone suggested that they should have basicly infinite ammo, and i am guessing a casket of 200 arrows on the back would weigh a lot :P

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by 77Hawk77 View Post
    but someone suggested that they should have basicly infinite ammo
    I suggested that... But it's clear you didn't read my whole suggestion.

    I'd like to see finite ammo in game modes that would call for it, (such as single life game mode, ie Battle,) but in game modes with multiple respawns then I think there should be a place on the map you can go and collect a new shield or ammo. Ideally this resupply point would move positions around the map making it a bit of a pain to get there.

  6. #26
    Colonel Sol Invictus's Avatar
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    From what I have seen the current system should work ok. You gotta figure a good number of arrow shots will be a miss so if you burn through your entire quiver you will be neutered for a good portion of the fight waiting for your arrows to regenerate. I am sure they are constantly adjusting the regeneration rate during testing. A melee fighter doesn't have to wory about depleting his ammo(combat ability) through missing his opponent since he has unlimited ammo in a sense. If an archer doen't manage his arrows/bolts well and is forced into melee he will be at a very large disadvantage so it will pay for him to limit himself from going crazy with his shots.
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  7. #27
    Lt. General Beowulf1990's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Invictus View Post
    From what I have seen the current system should work ok. You gotta figure a good number of arrow shots will be a miss so if you burn through your entire quiver you will be neutered for a good portion of the fight
    That's is exactly why I think it should be limited. It means that an archer needs to place his shots with some care and that skill will make a much bigger difference. A good archer doesn't miss often. If you can fall back on regenerating ammo, many players will still be spamming shots, then falling back to recover the ammo.
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  8. #28
    How would the archers falling back be a weird thing? The earlier cavalry did something like that too, charge up to the enemy, throw your throwing spears, fall back again and repeat.. I guess that would work with a supply cart or something as well.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderwolf View Post
    How would the archers falling back be a weird thing? The earlier cavalry did something like that too, charge up to the enemy, throw your throwing spears, fall back again and repeat.. I guess that would work with a supply cart or something as well.
    I think he used "fall back on" as a synonym of "rely upon", (rather than the actual act of retreating.)

  10. #30
    Colonel Sol Invictus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectAngel View Post
    I think he used "fall back on" as a synonym of "rely upon", (rather than the actual act of retreating.)

    I understand his sentence the way Thunderwolf does. If that interpretation is correct then an Archer who is falling back to recover arows is completely taken out of the battle and is useless to his side. All the while the sword slingers are merrily hacking away. It all comes down to the regeneration rate. If the rate is too high than I would agree that it is a problem. They just need to get the rate right. Archers did recover arrows on the battlefield historically and that is what the regeneration depicts.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Invictus View Post
    If that interpretation is correct then an Archer who is falling back to recover arows is completely taken out of the battle and is useless to his side.
    I really dont get this.
    Thats like saying a Horseman whos Mount gets shot down is useless or a Soldier whos Weapon breakes and/or loses his shield.

    Archers may fall back to replace their arrows (or loot other dead Archers) and Knights/MenatArms may fall back to replace their broken Weapon / lost shield and aid their bleeding wounds.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orkfaeller View Post
    I really dont get this.
    Thats like saying a Horseman whos Mount gets shot down is useless or a Soldier whos Weapon breakes and/or loses his shield.

    Archers may fall back to replace their arrows (or loot other dead Archers) and Knights/MenatArms may fall back to replace their broken Weapon / lost shield and aid their bleeding wounds.

    I assume that a Knight that loses their mount would still be a dangerous foe. Not nearly as effective as with the horse but still deadly. I wasn't aware that Archers could loot other Archer's arrows but if there is absolutely no regeneration then I doubt there would be many to loot. Melee fighters also have one good back-up weapon if their main breaks while a bow is useless without arrows and if the Archer is commonly forced to use their back-up weapon in melee then they will likely be dead quickly. It just seems that no arrow regeneration would gimp the Archers fairly heavily. It would also greatly decrease the enjoyment of being an Archer which is probably what the Devs are trying to avoid. Either the Archer's need to start with more arrows or the regeneration needs to remain imo. It is hard to say not having played the game but I think the Devs will get it right.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Invictus View Post
    I assume that a Knight that loses their mount would still be a dangerous foe. Not nearly as effective as with the horse but still deadly.
    Well at least the Crossbow (and Rifle) men in the videos were also wearing moderate armour, a helmet, a shield and a longsword so they dont really seem more vulnerable than a horseless, lanceless, shieldless Knight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Invictus View Post
    I wasn't aware that Archers could loot other Archer's arrows but if there is absolutely no regeneration then I doubt there would be many to loot.
    Sry If I wrote it in an unclear way. Actually I have no Idea if this is going to be possible. It was more of an idea to give archers of all kind an additional way to get their hands on ammunition.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Invictus View Post
    Melee fighters also have one good back-up weapon if their main breaks while a bow is useless without arrows and if the Archer is commonly forced to use their back-up weapon in melee then they will likely be dead quickly.
    Like I said, in the videos all Ranged classes seem to come with a sword and even an option for shields and medium (maybe even heavy?) armour.
    Just scatter a few "ammo-crates" around, make dead archers lootable and/or give them the option to switch their meeleweapon for a second quiver.
    Lets say 12 Arrows for free, 12 additonal in exchange for your sword or a perk.
    Thats atleast how I would try to solve it.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orkfaeller View Post
    Well at least the Crossbow (and Rifle) men in the videos were also wearing moderate armour, a helmet, a shield and a longsword so they dont really seem more vulnerable than a horseless, lanceless, shieldless Knight.


    Sry If I wrote it in an unclear way. Actually I have no Idea if this is going to be possible. It was more of an idea to give archers of all kind an additional way to get their hands on ammunition.


    Like I said, in the videos all Ranged classes seem to come with a sword and even an option for shields and medium (maybe even heavy?) armour.
    Just scatter a few "ammo-crates" around, make dead archers lootable and/or give them the option to switch their meeleweapon for a second quiver.
    Lets say 12 Arrows for free, 12 additonal in exchange for your sword or a perk.
    Thats atleast how I would try to solve it.

    Oh I'm all for looting arrows so hopefully that is possible. That would be a fine compromise to me. I noticed that the Crossbowman was fairly heavily armed/armored and that is why I am leaning in that direction. Of course he is much slower than the Longbowman. I haven't seen any Longbowman with other than Leather/Padded armor but maybe it is possible. If they increase the beginning arrow amount and include lootable arrows I could forego regeneration.
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  15. #35
    I think you guys are creating problems that don't exist. I would be more worried about archers being overpowered, rather than being too weak without their bow. I know as a fact that unless there is some mechanic that stops me, I would be able to take on a heavily armored footman as an archer... Or anyone. Armor doesn't matter if you aren't getting hit, and unless attacks go through blocks a lot of people will be able to avoid getting hit.

    In other words, that tiny sword that an archer gets will be plenty to fall back on when he runs out of arrows unless they have something like sword durability.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zealto View Post
    unless they have something like sword durability.
    Seems I have some bad news for you...

  17. #37
    From what i've seen, lances break very quickly, but they are also very powerful, able to one hit kill people with a well aimed charge. after the lance breaks, the knight has to fall back onto their sub weapon, which doesn't make them under powered, it balances out the extra power they had earlier. the same should apply to archers, ammo should be limited to balance them against other characters.

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