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The problem with Japan is that you are already in a position where you have more IC than you can really fuel. Adding a ton of IC to the home islands will only make your deficit worse. If you are going to maximize IC, you might appoint a resource minister to beef up your rares and metal output. Otherwise, you are going to have to sell supplies just so you can import the needed resources for your initial IC, to say nothing of expanding it. And did I mention you are short crude oil, too? You will end up selling supplies to cover the cost of importing that, as well. All those supplies are going to cost IC which is IC not building new IC or building CVs.

Fair enough, but I don't seem to be having that problem. Don't misunderstand: I'm selling supplies to the United States and using the cash to build large reserves of energy, metal, and rares. My goal by July 1, 1937, is to have 30k in energy, 15k in metal, and about 7.5k in rares. This gives me over a 3 month supply, assuming 152 IC and every unit of IC is going to new construction/building and that I'm suddenly not adding to my supplies at all.

Part of my overall plan in the 18 months prior to Marco Polo is stockpile assets to at least 10k in energy, metal, rares, and oil - although I hate to buy oil and will let this one go a bit if I have to. Supplies I really stockpile, often trying to achieve 30 to 40k reserve, including what I sell the U.S. Money? Money, schmoney - since I try to keep this less than 200, I buy everything I can.

Wouldn't be simpler just to stop selling supplies and use the extra IC to "build"? Not in my experience. Playing on normal, a single infantry division costs between 6-7 IC to build over 100 days. Using the same amount of IC for the same amount of time to make supplies, increases my supplies by a significant amount - enough to sell and use the money to buy Japan's much needed rare resources.

Someone mentioned conquering China and that certainly can help. But China isn't an industrial powerhouse. And China does not have a ton of leadership to annex, either. And while China has resources, you aren't going to get them all thanks to you not having cores everywhere.

Exactly. :) Which is why I posed the question.

Maybe there are other parts of the map where you can "conquer" enough regions to provide a massive increase in IC or Leadership. Asia is not one of those parts of the map. As you say, the best you can hope for is some resources (about 40% IIR) and that will just stop the bleeding a bit back home.

No, the only way for Japan to accumulate resources between 1936-1940 is to buy, buy, buy. And to do that, they have to sell supplies - which means leveraging IC to make supplies to sell. From day one, I can sell 50 supplies to the U.S. for 8.21 (on normal). For the 10 IC I invest in extra supplies (whatever supplies are need + 10 IC), I can cover that 50 and more - and I don't believe it drains my resources.

What do you intend to do by 1940? That will tell me how to answer this question. If you are delaying war with China for a couple of years to build up industry, that's different than planning to DOW China the moment Marco-Polo opens.

Here's the thing. Feel free to spam IC all you want, but Japan's starting army is crap. Out of 172 total brigades, 63 are GAR. That's not the kind of force you can storm into China with an expect an easy victory. If you plan on war with China in 37, you can't really build a ton of IC. You've got to have more troops. And if you plan on war with the USA in 41, you gotta start cooking CVs now or in the next two years.

EDIT: I forgot what crappy politicians Japan has in 1936. Your choices for Armament minister are crap and crappier.

Yes, there's not a lot of hope from the armament minister - or the rest of the cabinet.

What do I intend to do by 1940? Begin serious preparation for the inevitable war with the Allies. The following information is based solely on the two test campaigns I played.

Japan is "locked" into the start of the game. Sure, you can decide when you want to attack China but the longer you delay, the more resources you lose (even the 40% is better than nada). And, frankly, there's no reason to delay. So I start my war with China on July 7, 1937.

I use the time prior to that for three primary purposes: (1) reorganizing my army, navy and air force, (2) researching the most critical tech I can including naval tech, (3) stockpiling resources while recruiting enough land units to win the war in China (yes, you're right about Japan's army) - a bit of a balancing act. I also make sure my officer ratio is at 140% and that I'm recruiting my units on specialist setting. I want every advantage in battle I can get.

I haven't experimented with reserve units yet because I didn't really see the purpose and because someone told me they're statistically weaker.

In order for Japan to achieve victory, IMO, they must have the most powerful navy they can achieve. Sure, I can do some "gamey" things like spamming a bunch of cheaper, weaker ships and throwing them at the enemy in the hopes of getting a "critical" hit (what the Strategy Guide refers to as the "Rennslaer Paradigm"), but the only way to ensure victory over the United States is to destroy their navy with a better navy.

But we know that building ships stops up production like a toy in a toilet. Particularly between 1937 and the end of 1940, which I see as the optimum 4 year period for Japan to build their navy. Japan has to have carriers - and a number of them. Try building 4 carriers - with CAGs - in an unmodded version of HoI3 FtM in that time frame (I know some people mod the construction time) - while you're developing your carrier tech. They start at 19 months (assuming you upgrade the research, 17 months if you don't) and cost at least 14 IC with CAGs (and really - what's the use of a carrier without CAGs?) making them one of the most expensive units in the game (only a Tactical Bomber is more expensive).

(BTW, my game must be broken, because on a video tutorial I was told that the more units you build, the "practical" effect is you build them faster. Not so. I raised my infantry practical to 10 - 10! - and, get this, it took six days LONGER to build these units than the previous units. The same thing happened with artillery. And this is despite researching industrial efficiency. Of course, I also researched infantry elements during the same time, which resulted in better units which take longer to build. The same thing happened with artillery).

Once you roll into 1941, if Japan doesn't have a strong navy - it's really too late. And in the meantime, you have land and air units to recruit. Even 5 or 10 (or preferably 20) increase in IC would mean an extra battleship or battlecruiser to add to the stack. Yes, it will burn up resources, but that's why I stock pile them.

Anyway - yes, I get your point. Japan has this problem. Sure, Japan can attack Russia, but then Germany attacks Russia, gets all the good stuff, and you're stuck with a bunch of Japanese guys in Siberia (like shades of a merged Akira Kurosawa/Jack London nightmare).

So anything I can do - anything! - to increase IC will only benefit me. But I'm a near impossible time getting my IC up over 200 on normal difficulty.*

So, yes, thanks for your thoughts. :)

* Edit: this number reflects 1940 IC, not start of game. :)
 
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War with the Allies. Check.
Conquer China ASAP to get meager resources and IC. Check.
Want a real navy. Check.
Realize that selling supplies is vital to at least get enough resources to fuel IC. Check.

Okay, let me break some stuff down for you. Some stuff I would do in your position.

1) I would avoid selling to the USA. Even if they don't embargo you (and they probably won't), it's still a sea connection that requires convoys. Instead, let me direct your attention to your new best friend as Japan: Stalin. The Soviets are eager to sell you metal, rares, and crude. And they will buy supplies with the excess cash. And, this is the best part: you have a land connection via Korea. It requires no convoys to trade with them. Assuming you don't pointlessly DOW them in 1940, you can maintain uninterrupted trade with them even as you bomb Pearl Harbor. As time goes on, they will sell you fewer resources as Soviet IC gets built (rares are not infinite for the Soviets). But if you focus your trade with one really good partner, you can get better prices and get plenty of things you need. And don't skip out on the crude. You will need some for the war with the USA.

2) The best group of resources available to Japan is in the Dutch islands. Of course, the Netherlands are protected by the UK, so it's not like you can snag it for free. But when the war starts, you can seize all that stuff and get both strategic resources and regular resources, which you desperately need. And there's no need to wait until you attack the USA. DOW yourself in 1939 once the Germans initiate hostilities. Take it all as quickly as you can and get that stuff flowing back home. British India can wait; if you have annexed China by 1939, then you might as well invade French Indochina and add a war goal claiming it. That Black Soil strategic resource would be nice and there's no point in waiting for Vichy to fire.

3) Put the supply production tech at the top of the research queue and keep it there until you are 3-4 years ahead of time. If you are selling supplies to buy resources, you might as well maximize the impact of supply production. You could also research the resource techs, but their impact will be minimal compared to what you can conquer (coal conversion might be worth the research to turn your surplus coal into oil, but even that is kinda iffy.)

4) Japan's army in 1936 sucks; but it's all you got. If you want to expand IC, you are going to have to use it effectively. You can either defend Manchukuo, or let them annex it and defend the Yalu river in north Korea. I would let the Chinese take Manchukuo, and hold them at the Yalu River, rotating divisions in and out of combat as they pointlessly try to attack across the river with their crap units and crap techs. Build 2 runs of IC (full IC production, no units or ships) while you research light aircraft techs, air launched torpedo (for CAGs), CV techs, and CL techs. I would also get some research done on MAR and MTN if you don't have it already.

5) When the IC is done, put a new CTF in the queue (3xCVs and 5xCLs plus CAGs). Start building massive ground forces with left over IC (MAR for preference, with some MIL or INF as regular forces). You will be at war time laws, so the IC will be amplified considerably as you already know (heavy industry emphasis is great). Once that MAR is complete, invade the ports in Shangxi and send enough troops there to occupy a string of provinces all the way to the Mongolian and Soviet border. Assuming you have blockaded all Chinese ports, you have now cut off the combined armies of China. Close the huge pocket you just created. (This will take at least 6 months, maybe longer depending on terrain.) They will be out of supply, so you can fight them effectively even with that stupid CAV and GARs you have running around all over the place.

6) Once the Chinese army is wiped out, occupy and annex the whole thing. Be sure to take out Yunnan and Guangxi and puppet the western states (their names elude me, but we're talking about the weak little puppets of Nat. China.)

7) Sometime in 1940-1941, that CTF will be done. Build 2 more to replace it in the queue with even newer techs and the practicals. Keep churning out ground units. When it is done, you can DOW the Allies and take the Dutch Indies. Remember, you start with a few CVs already, and if you upgraded the techs on those CAGs, you can sink most of the RN. A few 1918 BBs are no match for your starting CVs with nice CAGs on them, and the RN is spread between the Atlantic and Pacific.

8) Once you have secured Indochina, China, India, and the Dutch Indies, then you can begin thinking about attacking the USA.

EDIT: All those CAGs you have at the start can be used to run ground attack missions if they aren't busy. They have decent range and the XP gain is useful.
 
War with the Allies. Check.
Conquer China ASAP to get meager resources and IC. Check.
Want a real navy. Check.
Realize that selling supplies is vital to at least get enough resources to fuel IC. Check.

Okay, let me break some stuff down for you. Some stuff I would do in your position.

1) I would avoid selling to the USA. Even if they don't embargo you (and they probably won't), it's still a sea connection that requires convoys. Instead, let me direct your attention to your new best friend as Japan: Stalin. The Soviets are eager to sell you metal, rares, and crude. And they will buy supplies with the excess cash. And, this is the best part: you have a land connection via Korea. It requires no convoys to trade with them. Assuming you don't pointlessly DOW them in 1940, you can maintain uninterrupted trade with them even as you bomb Pearl Harbor. As time goes on, they will sell you fewer resources as Soviet IC gets built (rares are not infinite for the Soviets). But if you focus your trade with one really good partner, you can get better prices and get plenty of things you need. And don't skip out on the crude. You will need some for the war with the USA.

Got it.

2) The best group of resources available to Japan is in the Dutch islands. Of course, the Netherlands are protected by the UK, so it's not like you can snag it for free. But when the war starts, you can seize all that stuff and get both strategic resources and regular resources, which you desperately need. And there's no need to wait until you attack the USA. DOW yourself in 1939 once the Germans initiate hostilities. Take it all as quickly as you can and get that stuff flowing back home. British India can wait; if you have annexed China by 1939, then you might as well invade French Indochina and add a war goal claiming it. That Black Soil strategic resource would be nice and there's no point in waiting for Vichy to fire.

Got it.

3) Put the supply production tech at the top of the research queue and keep it there until you are 3-4 years ahead of time. If you are selling supplies to buy resources, you might as well maximize the impact of supply production. You could also research the resource techs, but their impact will be minimal compared to what you can conquer (coal conversion might be worth the research to turn your surplus coal into oil, but even that is kinda iffy.)

Yes, I'm researching supply production, but not as aggressively. Got it.

4) Japan's army in 1936 sucks; but it's all you got. If you want to expand IC, you are going to have to use it effectively. You can either defend Manchukuo, or let them annex it and defend the Yalu river in north Korea. I would let the Chinese take Manchukuo, and hold them at the Yalu River, rotating divisions in and out of combat as they pointlessly try to attack across the river with their crap units and crap techs. Build 2 runs of IC (full IC production, no units or ships) while you research light aircraft techs, air launched torpedo (for CAGs), CV techs, and CL techs. I would also get some research done on MAR and MTN if you don't have it already.

So how does this actually play out? You declare war, then withdraw all of your divisions from Manchukuo (I suppose you could withdraw first) and just let China overrun Manchukuo? Wouldn't I lose the resources from this region? Or do I misunderstand how puppets work?

5) When the IC is done, put a new CTF in the queue (3xCVs and 5xCLs plus CAGs). Start building massive ground forces with left over IC (MAR for preference, with some MIL or INF as regular forces). You will be at war time laws, so the IC will be amplified considerably as you already know (heavy industry emphasis is great). Once that MAR is complete, invade the ports in Shangxi and send enough troops there to occupy a string of provinces all the way to the Mongolian and Soviet border. Assuming you have blockaded all Chinese ports, you have now cut off the combined armies of China. Close the huge pocket you just created. (This will take at least 6 months, maybe longer depending on terrain.) They will be out of supply, so you can fight them effectively even with that stupid CAV and GARs you have running around all over the place.

Okay, what I usually do is reorganize my army, so that I have triangular divisions supported by a unit of ART. This gives me 6 corps of Japanese infantry, specialist trained with weapons researched upgraded to 1938 - with a fairly minimal IC investment. The biggest cost is the 30 regiments of ART. I pull any infantry unit I have in the game and put in my war army.

My usual corps organization is 4 divisions of 3xINF, 1xART, and 1 division of 3xINF, 1 ENG. As I said, I can about six corps of these or 30 divisions with the units I have, adding the ART and ENG.

From there I create a corps of 4 mountain divisions and a corps of 4 marines when they're available. These also are triangular and each marine division is supported by engineers, making them a fairly potent force.

6) Once the Chinese army is wiped out, occupy and annex the whole thing. Be sure to take out Yunnan and Guangxi and puppet the western states (their names elude me, but we're talking about the weak little puppets of Nat. China.)

Got it. Puppets are better than annexing?

7) Sometime in 1940-1941, that CTF will be done. Build 2 more to replace it in the queue with even newer techs and the practicals. Keep churning out ground units. When it is done, you can DOW the Allies and take the Dutch Indies. Remember, you start with a few CVs already, and if you upgraded the techs on those CAGs, you can sink most of the RN. A few 1918 BBs are no match for your starting CVs with nice CAGs on them, and the RN is spread between the Atlantic and Pacific.

Got it.

8) Once you have secured Indochina, China, India, and the Dutch Indies, then you can begin thinking about attacking the USA.

Got it.

EDIT: All those CAGs you have at the start can be used to run ground attack missions if they aren't busy. They have decent range and the XP gain is useful.

This I already do and, yes, it works quite well.

Thanks for the help.
 
If you plan on going to war with Russia, it's nice to have Sinkiang under direct control. You can build infrastructure lines through there to supply an army to invade Central Asia, which has a lot of Russia's resources and IC. Invading them from Manchuria just gets you a bunch of useless Siberian provinces.
 
So how does this actually play out? You declare war, then withdraw all of your divisions from Manchukuo (I suppose you could withdraw first) and just let China overrun Manchukuo? Wouldn't I lose the resources from this region? Or do I misunderstand how puppets work?

Manchukuo doesn't have a lot of anything, really. But the point of the exercise is twofold.

First, defending the Yalu river is easy. They can throw hordes at you all day, but it won't make much of a difference. And with them sitting across the Yalu, they are in range of practically all airpower. It's the new, improved 24 hour bombing campaign. All ground attack, all the time!

Second, once you them them out and annex Nat. China, you own Manchukuo directly, netting you their meager IC and resources. Assuming you are Axis, they won't even count as occupied, I think, giving you no nationalism. (You are their liberator, after all...)

The overall goal is to get all of China's meager IC and resources directly under your control. Manchukuo is a part of that. You could just puppet everything, but even then it would be easier to annex Nat. China and then release one big giant puppet consisting of Nat. China, Com. China, Shangxi, and Manchukuo IF you wanted to go the puppet route. Nat. China has cores on all of it. But I'm guessing you want maximum IC, and even though it's crap, annexing them directly nets you more IC.

Note that there's no real leadership to be had in China. They are leadership poor. If you want more leadership, conquer the USA. But if you can conquer the USA, then you are past the point of caring about boosting your leadership. :)



Okay, what I usually do is reorganize my army, so that I have triangular divisions supported by a unit of ART. This gives me 6 corps of Japanese infantry, specialist trained with weapons researched upgraded to 1938 - with a fairly minimal IC investment. The biggest cost is the 30 regiments of ART. I pull any infantry unit I have in the game and put in my war army.

My usual corps organization is 4 divisions of 3xINF, 1xART, and 1 division of 3xINF, 1 ENG. As I said, I can about six corps of these or 30 divisions with the units I have, adding the ART and ENG.

From there I create a corps of 4 mountain divisions and a corps of 4 marines when they're available. These also are triangular and each marine division is supported by engineers, making them a fairly potent force.

That should be fine. Japan gets more mileage out of special forces than most countries, since you end up fighting in places where they really do well. I've run a Japan game where I have an entire Army Group of MAR and MTN for offensive ops, and then a bunch of MIL to garrison all port (with no infantry). The MAR and MTN saw them using their special bonuses time and again, making the officer cost worth it (and by garrisoning home with MIL, I saved on officers by not using INF).



Got it. Puppets are better than annexing?

Only those dinky minors like Mongolia and Sinkiang that really just have nothing to offer. You can annex and infrastructure upgrade, but if I rule the Pacific, there are better places to invade from. Using the Black Sea to take the Caucuses is just plain awesome to satisfy your crude oil problem, while annexing Persia if they aren't cooperating with the Axis and invading north through there is always an option. With India and the Suez secure, you really have tons of options.


Thanks for the help.

You're welcome.

A final word of warning. The RN is easy to beat even with just two CTFs as long as you have upgraded CAGs. The USN is another kettle of fish entirely, although the AI's inability to grasp the fundamentals of garrisoning coastlines works to your advantage here.
 
Note that there's no real leadership to be had in China. They are leadership poor. If you want more leadership, conquer the USA. But if you can conquer the USA, then you are past the point of caring about boosting your leadership.

1. Base value+value after starting in 1936
a) only Japan 14,4/20,5
b) Japan + Manchuko 14,8/21,2
c) Japan + Manchuko + NatChi cores 17,6/24,5
If you added various modifiers
- big and/org army,navy,air
- minister
- education tech(with boost +% research eff is hard to say,but many)
- control of gulfs and straits in Asia theater

there is enough value to make real difference on hard,very hard diff or MP, especially when Japan gets massive +% to research eff...

2. Also China is excelent area for non-stop raising construction practicals, lots of infra:) Better than one big IC build, and you must only selecting provinces and push "F":)