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Thread: Carrier Strike on Airbase: Does it actually damage planes?

  1. #1
    Baby KR Developer LiamRiordan's Avatar
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    Carrier Strike on Airbase: Does it actually damage planes?

    I'm curious about this since I wonder if any damage is actually being done to the occupants of an airbase. I've launched a few and I see negligible to no damage, while strikes on ports can be absolutely devastating if the defending fleet was engaged in open waters and was retreating to repair.

    I'd love to be able to counter NAV spam with some CV spam
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  2. #2
    Naval bomber strikes on ports are about the only way to clean out fleets, at least it was in earler versions of DH. One Japanese fleet always holes up in some obscure Pacific island port and refuses to come out unless, of course, you move your main striking force away to do other things. Send in your Nav bombers, borrow others from the Brits, throw in some strat bombers for months of pounding.. and the fleet is no more

    As for attacking airfields with carrier planes. I would have thought its a waste of time. the best way to get rid of the planes entirely is to take the province with the airfield in it. the planes disappear. Maybe a paratrooper drop at night provided, of course, there is some way to extract the paratroopers?

  3. #3
    Baby KR Developer LiamRiordan's Avatar
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    NAV and Paradropping isn't always a viable option, especially in transatlantic engagements, say in KR I the UoB intend to maul those damned Canadian/Entente combined air forces in Halifax. If I don't nail them there, they'll make my life a living hell upon a proper naval invasion.

    I'd like there to be some damage since it'll keep the NAV spam in check if the attack hits and force the player/AI to keep investing in an airforce rather than INF spam.
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  4. #4
    I don't think this game actually has a way to damage planes on the ground - even the runway cratering mission (which completely OBLITERATES airfields) doesn't seem to affect the planes, when in reality thousands of planes were destroyed in this fashion.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gort11 View Post
    I don't think this game actually has a way to damage planes on the ground - even the runway cratering mission (which completely OBLITERATES airfields) doesn't seem to affect the planes, when in reality thousands of planes were destroyed in this fashion.
    It has always seemed weird to me that (cheaply produced) planes are nearly immortal if handled intelligently, and are very long lived even if now, but incredibly expensive ships can and will be found and sunk by those merciless planes, with no way to prevent it short of keeping them in home port with fighters overhead.

    Maybe if the "none" mission allowed planes to be "engaged", even though they aren't burning fuel (give them massive penalties)?

  6. #6
    General Samilou's Avatar
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    I suspect there were some typos in the /db/misc.txt file that caused severe inbalance in Navy vs. Air - Str dmg.

    change 0.04 into 0.4 and naval bombing runs should be very costly to the aircraft as well as the ships, if the naval force involved has proper air defenses (light cruisers are highly recommended). I would also recommend increasing damage to organisation, in order to prevent the aircraft from consistently repeating the attacks (should help avoid the AI attacking until their air flotillas are destroyed). Don't let your ships travel in risk zones without cover from AA capable ships or by aircraft. Light cruisers are a cheap insurance for your naval invasions once you have this tweak implemented.
    Last edited by Samilou; 03-05-2012 at 18:37.
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    Baby KR Developer LiamRiordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samilou View Post
    I suspect there were some typos in the /db/misc.txt file that caused severe inbalance in Navy vs. Air - Str dmg.

    change 0.04 into 0.4 and naval bombing runs should be very costly to the aircraft as well as the ships, if the naval force involved has proper air defenses (light cruisers are highly recommended). I would also recommend increasing damage to organisation, in order to prevent the aircraft from consistently repeating the attacks (should help avoid the AI attacking until their air flotillas are destroyed). Don't let your ships travel in risk zones without cover from AA capable ships or by aircraft. Light cruisers are a cheap insurance for your naval invasions once you have this tweak implemented.
    Really now? I'm going to test that setting out later on, and if it works, should be awesome. Means I've got to really, really nail those carriers as the British since London is practically the last safe zone from the Germans carriers in Kaiserreich.

    Also, I always have Light Cruisers in any fleet with AA and Radar attachments. Still think Radar should add a slight organization booster since they're harder to surprise.
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  8. #8
    General Samilou's Avatar
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    It doesn't apply to carriers, don't think so at least. But works for naval bombers. Might be because carriers count as naval (not sure they do). But I think it is something else that makes carriers so weak in port and airbase strikes.
    Last edited by Samilou; 03-05-2012 at 21:12.
    I think more people who interact with me should know about the neuropsychological disorder, Asperger's Syndrome; that I am diagnosed with, in order to at least to some degree understand the background to my by some people perceived as strange personality.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Samilou View Post
    I suspect there were some typos in the /db/misc.txt file that caused severe inbalance in Navy vs. Air - Str dmg.

    change 0.04 into 0.4 and naval bombing runs should be very costly to the aircraft as well as the ships, if the naval force involved has proper air defenses (light cruisers are highly recommended). I would also recommend increasing damage to organisation, in order to prevent the aircraft from consistently repeating the attacks (should help avoid the AI attacking until their air flotillas are destroyed). Don't let your ships travel in risk zones without cover from AA capable ships or by aircraft. Light cruisers are a cheap insurance for your naval invasions once you have this tweak implemented.
    That's not a typo, strength damage multipliers are commonly significantly less than org multipliers. Now, I'm not saying the multipliers shouldn't be higher, just that they didn't intend a str=0.4 to org=0.2 ratio.. not likely. str=0.1/org=0.3 seems reasonable to me.

    edit: otoh the land-vs-air multipliers are backwards. I don't know. These multipliers aren't really sensible, they just seem kludged together to make the games not be horribly obviously broken. I do think high str damage is unfun given how long it takes to produce NAVs.. but I also think ships shouldn't be quite so sinkable with early generation NAVs either.

  10. #10
    Sergeant Firesaw's Avatar
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    hey,

    interesting discussion going on here, but for some (more or less) noobs, could you explain what you did with misc.txt to make these changes to NAVs? I mean in detail which value did you change?

  11. #11
    I didn't review navalcombat or portstrikes so I can't give you a clear answer how right/wrong those values are.

    But one thing about those modifiers is, that they are not really 1:1 comparable. There happen a lot of weird things in the hardcoded parts of the combatengine and those misc.txt factors get multiplied with other hard coded factors. So a STR factor of 1 in the misc.txt might produce balanced damage to an ORG factors of 0.765.

    You really have to do either the math (which requires access to the code), or just try different values and work with observations.
    Speculations that seem logical don't work for the most part.
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  12. #12
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    Then make it unhardcoded so we can see.

    Jk. That'd be way too much work.

    Maybe in an expansion.
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  13. #13
    General Samilou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adiuvat View Post
    That's not a typo, strength damage multipliers are commonly significantly less than org multipliers. Now, I'm not saying the multipliers shouldn't be higher, just that they didn't intend a str=0.4 to org=0.2 ratio.. not likely. str=0.1/org=0.3 seems reasonable to me.

    edit: otoh the land-vs-air multipliers are backwards. I don't know. These multipliers aren't really sensible, they just seem kludged together to make the games not be horribly obviously broken. I do think high str damage is unfun given how long it takes to produce NAVs.. but I also think ships shouldn't be quite so sinkable with early generation NAVs either.
    From recent playtesting I find 0.4 to be a reasonable and balanced value.
    I think more people who interact with me should know about the neuropsychological disorder, Asperger's Syndrome; that I am diagnosed with, in order to at least to some degree understand the background to my by some people perceived as strange personality.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Firesaw View Post
    hey,

    interesting discussion going on here, but for some (more or less) noobs, could you explain what you did with misc.txt to make these changes to NAVs? I mean in detail which value did you change?
    In the combat = { section, look for things like:
    # Air vs. Land - Org dmg -
    .. they try hard to be self explanatory. It's worth your while to get familiar with that whole file, as it allows you a great deal of control over how the game performs.

  15. #15
    i really miss this from AoD

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