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Thread: How often do you grant independence to another kingdom?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Amoral View Post
    That is wrong. For example, King Louis of France refused the title of king of Spain, passing it instead to his grandson Philip.
    That Louise of France was never king. He was the heir but died prematurely. Just like a ton of times in this game.

    Spaniards had never agreed to merger two kingdoms of that magnitude. He let the title for his second son who for hereditary reasons had never worn a crown.
    Last edited by pocho; 01-05-2012 at 20:35.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Amoral View Post
    That is wrong. For example, King Louis of France refused the title of king of Spain, passing it instead to his grandson Philip.
    Err, while the post you were quoting was indeed wrong, you used just about the worst example there, considering that this happened largely as a consequence of the War of Spanish Succession and that the real hopes of the French all along were to see both Kingdoms end up in personal union down the line.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by pocho View Post
    That Louise of France was never king. He was the heir but died prematurely. Just like a ton of times in this game.

    Spaniards had never agreed to merger two kingdoms of that magnitude. He let the title for his second son who for hereditary reasons had never worn a crown.
    Okay, if that example is no good there are dozens more. In recent times, Edward VII of England gave the throne to his brother who became George VI. Technicaly Edward was an emperor, but since he gave that title away as well I think it counts. In the time period of the game, Henry II made his son John ruler of Ireland
    The fact is that kings give away their kingdoms to relatives regularily, and have done so throughout history.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by pocho View Post
    Never in history a king has give the independence and the king title to no one for free, why should you? On the other hand there where kings that divide their kingdom in pieces or little kingdoms when they die. For example Fernando I of Leon, who divide the kingdom of Leon between his three sons creating the kingdoms of Galicia, Leon and Castille (the situation of the Iberian Peninsula at 1066 in the game itself). It could be funny if you do the same as a challenge but it's anything than usefull.
    Not sure if this counts, but in 1556, King Charles I of Aragon and Castile and the Holy Roman Emperor decided to give away Holy Roman Empire to his brother Ferdinand. Forget a kingdom, he gave away an entire Empire

  5. #25
    I'm not talking of kings who give away their crown, I'm talking about kings who do it for NOTHING. All those kings have reasons to do what they did.

  6. #26
    Colonel Calbrenar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kailvin View Post
    Read the fine print. Holy orders/Bishoprics can not be given/can not make king/emperor tier titles. Probably should be a warning for that though...
    Ahh. I recall reading that now. I just remembered someone giving an example of letting a holy order make a duchy to switch his title and i decided to try a kingdom because jerusalem is annoying..

    He did take the title though. It just didn't do anything.
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  7. #27
    Dont know if there are any benefits in CK2 but in CK1 I usually gave my heir a "training" Kingdom
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by arc3371 View Post
    Dont know if there are any benefits in CK2 but in CK1 I usually gave my heir a "training" Kingdom
    Totally. If my heir is good enough (decent marriage, high stewardship, learning and diplo with prestige 300 - 500 and rising) and I have a spare Kingdom sitting around, one of the lesser important British ones like England or Wales I give it to my Heir to give them a boost for taking over my title later. It normally works out pretty good but I also have plenty of examples where my Heir has invaded my realm to gain my title or his new vassals have revolted and deposed him or killed him, I figure its usually worth the risk though and if he does well (which if you have picked stats and marriage correctly he should) its an advantage to you when he takes over.

    I often give up Kingdoms that are far from my core realm (where I speant my money building up county holdings) like any from Crusades (after converting their religon and if possible cultures and installing my bloodline) because it causes more problems than its worth IMHO. If you manufacture the situation so that you install a strong dynastic calimant you often gain more than loose (like the Hungry example above).

  9. #29
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    In one of my earliest games, I conquered Scotland, Ireland and Wales. Inherited England and Norway too. Didn't want Norway, so I gave it to a cousin.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justinian_A View Post
    It totally depends on map position and historic boundaries, to be honest. In my current game as Hungary, I've kept Poland, Serbia and Croatia due to the fact that one could conceivably see a kingdom that contained all four at some point, even if it never happened. More importantly...it gives me access to both the Baltic and the Adriatic. I gave away the titles to Jerusalem, Bulgaria, Bavaria and Italy to siblings and sons due to either geographic weirdness or not needing them.
    Actually, briefly in 1370-1382 (Louis d'Anjou of Hungary) and then 1440-1444 (Wladyslaw/Ladislaus/Laszlo, who died at Varna, son of Wladyslaw Jagiello) there was one king in both Poland and Hungary, and Hungary already controlled Croatia then, although not Serbia (that one was independent under local rulers). As for Jerusalem, hah, that title was held in pretence by a whole slew of people, including the d'Anjou dynasty, an off-shot of whom ruled in Hungary.

    See you had a lot of success in your game. I had a size 300 Poland but finishing before 1.05 I had only one kingdom title.

    Quote Originally Posted by arc3371 View Post
    Dont know if there are any benefits in CK2 but in CK1 I usually gave my heir a "training" Kingdom
    Sounds cool. Probably better than giving him several duchies to accumulate prestige etc. He should also get better marriage opportunities if his wife, chosen by you before "landing" him, were to die. Also a better solution economically, as he gets his separate, large demesne limit. Only problem if he does stupid things like choosing poor marriages, squandering the land, DoWing you etc.
    Last edited by NewbieOne; 02-05-2012 at 14:32.
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  11. #31
    I think it makes the game interesting. It is difficult for me, coming from EU3, because I think of my country as the measure of my success, but of course in CK2 it is all about your dynasty. If you have a slew of Kingdom titles, especially ones in far away lands (like Jerusalem), it makes management quite difficult sometimes. If you give those away to a member of your dynasty and he goes on to do well for himself, he is just further spreading the glory of your name across the world!

  12. #32
    I always try and get a handful of kingdoms for family members. Sometimes they can keep it for the entire game sometimes they can't. It gives you allies the entire time they keep the kingdom and if they get into any trouble for their crown it gives you a war to join.

    Personally I never become emperor and I only keep 1 de jure king title the rest are all titular. If I get any other de jure title from random inheriting or crusading I give it to family members.
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  13. #33
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    This can be cool actually if you have seniority succession, and have a rotating pool of kings in your dynasty.
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