The Features that I hope and Dream Of. (Hopefull Suggestions)

[SirAgmund]

I'm not one to make an extremely long and drawn out thread, so I will simply list some things that I hope will be in-game and why they should be there. (This is hopefully for the benefit of all parties. Peace of mind for the players if an official addresses the post (Which I would be very thankful for), and the developers knowing what the community wants.

(I watched Total Biscuit's video of his testing, and I absolutely loved what I saw, but there are a few things that I would like the community to be assured it will change in the future.)

1. A Knight wearing 120 pounds of armor is definitely not going to recover from being knocked down as fast as a peasant with a 20-30 pounds of Akaton or some such. Armor weight should take a role in how fast you recover from staggering or knock-down.
2. I assume that there will be some type of stamina to stop people from just sprinting all over the place constantly, so armor weight should also effect how long you can sprint for. Heavier you are, the faster your stamina bar will run down.
3. It's not a HUGE thing......... and it's already been addressed I'm sure. So, simply put........ "You try jumping in 120 pounds of armor." Even more, "You try jumping off a rooftop with 120 pounds of armor and not breaking your spine."
4. I absolutely agree with Total Biscuit that you cannot judge a game by an Alpha in a bad way, but I also think that you can judge it in a good way. From what I saw in the Alpha, this game looks like it is going to be great. Now, as a minor issue I understand that the game is not going for realism. (Although I am in the personal mind that absolute realism is better, that wont stop me from enjoying this game) I also understand that it is intended for each kill to be a battle, not a one or two-hit kill. (And I actually have to lean away from my starch realism mind-frame, and have to say this could work. Coming from Mount and Blade where a lot of the time you're dead in 1-2 hits)
Damage needs to be adjusted. (But damage is an easy thing to adjust in the LONG time frame between alpha and retail)
5. I hope that hits are relevant to where they strike? Ex: If I hit someone in the neck it should be FAR more damage than if I hit their thigh.

PROPS! Yes, I have props to the developers!
First. The game is looking amazing, so far! Thanks to the developers for their continued work, and to the developer's families for putting up with it. hahahah.

I don't know what it is called, but in Total Biscuit's video there were a few polearms being used. I noticed that the polearm could not damage someone by hitting with the haft of the weapon. Again, coming from "Warband" I absolutely love this and it has to be one of my favorite features. No more getting killed by noobs doing a little spin (gaining momentum) and running you through through with a 6 foot spear at 1 foot away. *HUZZAH*

I am intrigued by the "schools" of combat. That could prove to be a shining component to the game.

The active aiming and reload feature will make archery more complex and less "spammy." With such complexity, I will probably be using a bow or crossbow semi-regularly and not have to feel bad about every kill because it was so easy. ("Warband")

There are other little things that I enjoy, but I have already killed this thread quite a bit.
Fellow Paradoxites, please discuss below. I would like to see if there are more that think the same as I. And I have my fingers crossed for a WoTR official to stop by to perhaps, set my/our fears aside.

[Baynard]

Welcome to the forums SirAgmund!

1 - 100% agree, this would add some extra realism that would be a nice touch;
2 - don't like it as much as it may get rather annoying after some time;
3 - agree - jumping from a height like in the video should definately cause some damage, still undecided about standing jump height;
4 - damage definately needs to go up on all weapons I'd say;
5 - I think this is the case, head hits for example would do more damage than a body hit.

Great points.

[GordonVanDyke]

May I ask what Knight wore 120 lbs of armor in the 15th century? For context to my response, I just spent a week researching all of this in England and can say 100% certainty that is not the case or true. I even had the opportunity to wear plate armor and ride a horse with little issue and weight was not my biggest issue. Now, if I imagine having custom armor that was build specifically for me and training daily in using it I can easily see having zero trouble getting up or moving extremely quickly. I'll also add that if I was knocked down wearing the armor I'd likely get up faster than someone unprotected since it would have absorbed a lot of the impact and schock making it possible to recover faster.

Other than that you make some valid points that we already share with you. Armor just didn't weight what you thought it did, and knights were way more agil than even I thought.

Now, for the game we'll do what makes the most sense and provides the best combat experience.

[TheNarrator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMuNXWFPewg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kKLgSTkCEo

[Henk.]

Narrie! Long time no see, good to find you on the forums here!

[TheNarrator]

Henk! Pleasant surprise to see you again

[Baynard]

In response to GVD - I am surprised at what you said but as you actually tried it out for yourself then that's great. If it's been done then you can't argue with it And welcome TheNarrator.

[-Suzerain-]

I don't know what it is called, but in Total Biscuit's video there were a few polearms being used. I noticed that the polearm could not damage someone by hitting with the haft of the weapon. Again, coming from "Warband" I absolutely love this and it has to be one of my favorite features. No more getting killed by noobs doing a little spin (gaining momentum) and running you through through with a 6 foot spear at 1 foot away. *HUZZAH*

Since the "120lb armour" misconception has been well and truly shot down by now, I'd jus like to make a little comment about pollaxes.

they're a weapon I rather enjoy using as a martial artist. strangely, they're a weapon a lot of people dont like facing.
on grounds that they're insanely vicious.
and the entire weapon is used offensively - the haft included. infact, the bit you're likely to assume is the main weapon - the poll, is actually the lesser-used element. you've got the buttspike on the base of it, which is used as its ver lighter and faster, and that's used for jabbing thrusts, to expose gaps, and to harry the opponent. flicked round, you've got the topspike, that's again used for the thrust and to threaten the target.
between 'em, there's the haft, and that can be used to thrust the buttspike between an arm and the cuirass, and then torque the target around to throw them. you can use that to bind the arms, to trip by hooking behind a knee, to trip them, to throw. and you can also use the haft as a bludgeon, to slam it into their throat and push them back, over your knee, and onto the ground.

and all that, before you get to the hammer and axe/spike on the head of the pollaxe.


incidentally, one little detail I've found from fighting with pollaxes is the sixe of the rondel halfway down the langets can infact play a fairly useful strategic role when fighting other polearms. what it does is it prevents the two poles from being lined up perfectly parralell, and instead forces the other pole to be displaced by about an inch and a bit - the perfect distance away to protect the knuckles of the guy holding the pollaxe with rondel just above their grip, and the perfect distance for them to then ungrip, and to wrap their hand also around the other polearm, to bind it and disarm the opponent.

or, in other words... pollaxes are nasty bastards, and the haft and the "wrong" end are just as much weapons as the spikey end...

[SirAgmund]

May I ask what Knight wore 120 lbs of armor in the 15th century? For context to my response, I just spent a week researching all of this in England and can say 100% certainty that is not the case or true. I even had the opportunity to wear plate armor and ride a horse with little issue and weight was not my biggest issue. Now, if I imagine having custom armor that was build specifically for me and training daily in using it I can easily see having zero trouble getting up or moving extremely quickly. I'll also add that if I was knocked down wearing the armor I'd likely get up faster than someone unprotected since it would have absorbed a lot of the impact and schock making it possible to recover faster.

Other than that you make some valid points that we already share with you. Armor just didn't weight what you thought it did, and knights were way more agil than even I thought.



Now, for the game we'll do what makes the most sense and provides the best combat experience.

I have to admit, I haven't worn a 15th century suit of armor. I only fight in 9th to 11th century armor types, and those are mostly Germanic-Norse variants. (Which means they can be a lot heavier than English armors)
Although, I have to bring up that Jousting armor is different than combat armor.

I'll have to suit up in some 15th century battlefield armor in a month or two to test it out. (Can't wait to feel like a posh tin can. lol)

[Destraex]

I have to ask whether the replica armour you are using is of exactly the same weight and strength to take blows as the real deal?

Will size and strength of your character matter?
I am 6'3" and 125kg and tended in my day to be a hell of a lot faster with weight strapped on when I was ultra fit than people of smaller stature who were also ultra fit. Then again from what you are saying people did not get affected by the weight of the armour at all.
However I have only worn a friends chain mail and can say that it would have been fairly tiring quickly if you were not used to wearing it all day.
Just like horses were bred to carry weight, I am wondering if the soldiers of the day had the remnants of cro-magnon or other thick boned early man

Will fatigue be factored in, especially when woinded.. with a chance for berserk rage?
Have you guys decided to limit the number of people playing particular classes in a match?

[Digu21]

Dont think they will limit the amount of classes, its quite restrictive for some players. But as another gamemode or like a servers side option, that would be fun.

[Baynard]

True, class limitation in the majority of game modes would be bad - but as a server side option, it would allow servers to have cav vs cav only which would be great.

[ElricVonRabe]

1. A Knight wearing 120 pounds of armor is definitely not going to recover from being knocked down as fast as a peasant with a 20-30 pounds of Akaton or some such. Armor weight should take a role in how fast you recover from staggering or knock-down.

I'm sorry, but that is simply wrong.
It takes only about 1 or 2 seconds longer to get up.
It's really NOT significant.


3. It's not a HUGE thing......... and it's already been addressed I'm sure. So, simply put........ "You try jumping in 120 pounds of armor." Even more, "You try jumping off a rooftop with 120 pounds of armor and not breaking your spine."

I can put my armour and jump around, I can even videotape it if you like. It does NOT stop you from jumping.
Jumping off a rooftop from the heights showed in that one video is dangerous no matter if you wear alot of armour or not. But armour doesn't increase the chances of being hurt from jumping down somewhere much.

Armour DOES help not getting squished if someone else with alot of pounds of armour or even heavier than yourself jumps on YOU though.

4. I absolutely agree with Total Biscuit that you cannot judge a game by an Alpha in a bad way, but I also think that you can judge it in a good way. From what I saw in the Alpha, this game looks like it is going to be great. Now, as a minor issue I understand that the game is not going for realism. (Although I am in the personal mind that absolute realism is better, that wont stop me from enjoying this game) I also understand that it is intended for each kill to be a battle, not a one or two-hit kill. (And I actually have to lean away from my starch realism mind-frame, and have to say this could work. Coming from Mount and Blade where a lot of the time you're dead in 1-2 hits)

It's gets incredibly hard to kill someone in advanced plate armour. Especially in 1 - 2 hits, even with axes and maces.
The only quick ways of dispatching a person in advanced armour are by crossbow, firearm, a gigantic almost WOW size hammer, or a bunch of people holding the armoured person down and stabbing him in the face / neck

Each kill IS a battle when in good plate armour.
Damage should NOT go up, not against armour.

Damage needs to be adjusted. (But damage is an easy thing to adjust in the LONG time frame between alpha and retail)
5. I hope that hits are relevant to where they strike? Ex: If I hit someone in the neck it should be FAR more damage than if I hit their thigh.

Yeah, I agree with damage areas. But each area also has to have it's own armour "rating" depending on what kinda armour you wear.

That's my opinion on your points, from my point of view and first-hand experience of getting bashed in the face full contact, full force, with metal objects of all kinds, all while wearing full 15th century armour.

So basicly, I'm just reinforcing some of the things already said in the thread.

And please, no class limitations, that would kill the mood. :P

And please, no class limitations. That would kill the mood. :P

[Henk.]

As said, class limitations would be perfect as a server side option and by that a necessity.

[ElricVonRabe]

As said, class limitations would be perfect as a server side option and by that a necessity.

Agreed. Server side is the way to go on things like that.

[Digu21]

I think it would be fun with class limitations like Red Orchestra for example. But also the way its like now, more like Mount and Blade. One game that have both Free Class options and Class Limitations that is Chivalry Medieval Warfare. I would say if its implemented good, then it will surely be great.

[Destraex]

True, class limitation in the majority of game modes would be bad - but as a server side option, it would allow servers to have cav vs cav only which would be great.

I am more thinking of what happens in battles now with warband napoleon.... you end up with a company of riflemen (read elite snipers from sharpes novels) and 20 rocket artillerists in a lot of battles. It would be nice if somebody could come up with a server
that actually enforced troop RATIOS in realistic form. Whether you are seeing what it would be like to be part of the great cavalry charge at Eylau or Moores rearguard defence in Spain.

In Wars of the Roses I can imagine we will get everybody being knights or crossbowmen (read snipers).

I guess the other thing the game would need is something to make people work together. Formation bonuses\perks or some such. To take the lone wolf approach that most people have in this kind of game out of the equation.

[Baynard]

The ratios could be a good thing to enable server side possibly, but what would the ratio be? We don't want to restrict players too much.

And also having bonuses for staying is a group wouldn't work imo - people always like to go lone wolf, and the game already has a squad system too it.