Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: Gdansk – Danzig (My Rant, Enter At Your Own Risk)

  1. #1
    007 SonofWinter's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDivine WindHearts of Iron III CollectionHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In Nomine
    EU3 Napoleon's AmbitionEuropa Universalis: RomeRome: Vae VictisEU Rome Collectors EditionEU3 Collectors Edition
    500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    3,524

    Gdansk – Danzig (My Rant, Enter At Your Own Risk)

    Could the name on the map please be changed and everything related to it? Danzig is a nice German name but this has been a mostly Polish city for the majority of the last millennium and no amount of historical revisionism is going to make it a German city, certainly not during this time period or most of the last 1,000 years of the existence of this City.

    And please knock it off, with making it a part of the HRE. It wasn’t a part of the HRE, even once during the entire span of this game. I don’t care how many HRE fanbois you have. It wasn’t founded by Germans, it wasn’t ruled by Germans (during this time period) and it shouldn’t be represented as German in game and giving it a German name, has a way of making it sound like they had some legitimate claim to this city, I call B.S. no they didn’t, you know it, I know it and so does everyone else.

    Again, KNOCK IT OFF.
    If you want my help, register your game..
    Senatus Populusque Romanus!

  2. #2
    Augustus of the North DreadLindwyrm's Avatar
    200k clubCrusader Kings IIDeus VultEU3 CompleteDivine Wind
    Hearts of Iron IIIHeir to the ThroneVictoria: RevolutionsRome GoldSengoku
    Supreme Ruler 2020 GoldVictoria 2CK2: Holy Knight500k club

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sheffield, England, United Kingdom
    Posts
    3,542
    A lot of cities are named in the form most familiar to the English speaking world. Thus Danzig rather than Gdansk. It isn't revisionism trying to make it a German city. It's just that the majority of the English speaking world know it as such.

    If you've got this many complaints about the game, why not mini-mod Poland so it suits you?
    *This space deliberately left blank*

  3. #3
    On Probation thrashing mad's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Polska
    Posts
    2,603
    Marienburg in 1066 is much worse case.

  4. #4
    General nyah's Avatar
    Achtung PanzerCities in MotionCities in Motion 2Crusader Kings IICommander: Conquest of the Americas
    Deus VultEast India Company CollectionEuropa Universalis: ChroniclesEU3 CompleteDivine Wind
    For the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourEuropa Universalis III: In NomineLead and Gold
    LegioThe Kings CrusadeMagickaMajesty 2March of the Eagles
    EU3 Napoleon's AmbitionNaval War: Arctic CircleVictoria: RevolutionsEuropa Universalis: RomeSemper Fi
    SengokuSupreme Ruler 2020 GoldSupreme Ruler: Cold WarVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided
    Victoria II: Heart of DarknessRome: Vae VictisMount & Blade: WarbandMount & Blade: With Fire and SwordWar of the Roses
    Pride of NationsRise of PrussiaCK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    Posts
    1,797
    Quote Originally Posted by DreadLindwyrm View Post
    A lot of cities are named in the form most familiar to the English speaking world. Thus Danzig rather than Gdansk. It isn't revisionism trying to make it a German city. It's just that the majority of the English speaking world know it as such.

    If you've got this many complaints about the game, why not mini-mod Poland so it suits you?
    I think the confusion arises because Danzig/Gdansk was settled by a lot of German speakers, which is why it has a Germanic name and a big Germanic influence. He is right thought that it should not be part of the HRE though because during this period it was part of Poland and later the Teutonic order, before reverting to Poland again just at the end of the game's timeframe. There isn't a reason for it not becoming part of the HRE during gameplay though.

  5. #5
    Pretty much every province and city on the map is called however we tend to call it in English (I guess if you play localizations, probably the same deal).

    And the city is well known as Danzig, whilst nobody has the slightest clue what "Gdansk" is. I guess that's how you're calling Danzig nowadays? This is probably just about making the name and the landmark recognizable not to poke at your unresolved fratricidal feuds with your neighbors.

  6. #6
    Zouave of Death luk3Z's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    313

    FTG Patch 1.1 & 1.2 portable (in archive) -> thread
    FTG (EU2.5) -> new sounds (based on EU3) -> post

  7. #7
    On Probation thrashing mad's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Polska
    Posts
    2,603
    Quote Originally Posted by Alerias View Post
    And the city is well known as Danzig, whilst nobody has the slightest clue what "Gdansk" is.
    Among paradox games nerds you mean? IIRC devs commented on the issue before release, that name was chosen simply because most paradox gamers are familiar with 'Danzig', which was always used in EU, Vic, or HoI.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Alerias View Post
    Pretty much every province and city on the map is called however we tend to call it in English (I guess if you play localizations, probably the same deal).

    And the city is well known as Danzig, whilst nobody has the slightest clue what "Gdansk" is. I guess that's how you're calling Danzig nowadays? This is probably just about making the name and the landmark recognizable not to poke at your unresolved fratricidal feuds with your neighbors.
    To be honest, I don't think the majority of people know the name Danzig untill they play one of these games...

    And if these games refer to it as danzig, like EU3 did (the reason I know about danzig) then it keeps promoting the idea of the german name when the polish name is more accurate. I would consider his critique to be fairly genuine considering this has further ramifications in how we perceive gdanks in the future if a territorial dispute was to take place over it (hypotheticaly speaking ofcourse).

    It really should be named Gdansk.

    ''The Hague'', as most english people know the dutch city of ''S-Gravenhagen'' is still named after its own linguistic language (my own, dutch).

    To name Gdansk, Danzig, actualy breaks with the nomenclature of the game.

    A german player that conquers Gdansk later and converts the population to germans, yeah...then he should name it Danzig...but untill then it should be called Gdansk.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SonofWinter View Post
    And please knock it off, with making it a part of the HRE.
    If I had to guess, I would say, they changed it that way so you can't conquer the pagan duchies anymore and make them your primary title as a HRE vassal to get out of the crown laws of the HRE. In 1.04 you could conquer them (for example as the duke of Brandenburg) and make Mecklenburg your primary title. That way it didn't matter anymore, what crown laws the HRE had (like a medium or above crown authority).

    This was an ahistoric change to prevent exploits of the game mechanic.

    (As I said, it is just a guess)

  10. #10
    I don't see why is Gdansk is a problem, to most people Gdansk and Danzig should be tightly associated.

  11. #11
    The Closer Supermoderator Veldmaarschalk's Avatar
    77 games registered

    77

    200k clubCrusader Kings IIV2 BetaCK2: Holy Knight500k club

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    29,315
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blind_One View Post
    ''The Hague'', as most english people know the dutch city of ''S-Gravenhagen'' is still named after its own linguistic language (my own, dutch).
    For someone who is Dutch, you seem to have a hard time, writing the name properly

  12. #12
    General Grumpalodian Aardvark Bellay's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis 3Victoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided
    Victoria II: Heart of DarknessCK2: Holy Knight

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Berlin - Dustbin of History
    Posts
    6,100
    The people living around Danzig werent polish nor german and the name derives from the Gothes.
    So Poland 0 - Germany 0.

    Btw, theres a Poland mod which i guess changes names as well.
    The names are for an international (english) version anyway.
    Dont forget people in those days didnt give a damn for nationalism, thats why the german traders changed loyalty several times, because everthing that really mattered was tax and laws.
    Cheers,

    Nik
    [Micromod] - Old Building Names (Pre-1.10-building-names for CK2)

    CK2 Mods: User Mod Index (Don't forget to post about your mod compatibility)
    Deutsch CK2: German CK2 Sub-Forum (go there for the german translation 'repair' mod)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by thrashing mad View Post
    Among paradox games nerds you mean? IIRC devs commented on the issue before release, that name was chosen simply because most paradox gamers are familiar with 'Danzig', which was always used in EU, Vic, or HoI.
    I wouldn't even recognize Danzig if it wasn't for the Danzig or War decision in HOI 3/Various WWII books.

  14. #14
    Field Marshal chatnoir17's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDarkest HourDivine WindSengokuVictoria 2
    Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    CL Final
    Posts
    4,069
    The name Danzig always reminds me about an horse.
    Last edited by chatnoir17; 27-04-2012 at 22:00.
    Monumenta Iaponiae Historica : total improvement mod for Sengoku (ver.0.6832:updated on 23.11.2012)
    Additional Scenarios (1180, 1561, 1582 and 1600), More Historical Characters and Rebalancing
    General description about MIH for non registered forum users is here in Sengoku main forum

    Mod for EU4: Pax Sinica (East Asia Mod)/Bella Iaponica (Japan Mod)/ Bookmarks
    Three Mods for CK2
    :Bookmarks/ Climate Classification/Hedeby Republic

    Sweden in a Japanese game: AAR of Koei's Genghis Khan IV

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by chatnoir17 View Post
    The name Danzig always reminds me about a horse.
    Don't forget the band!

  16. #16
    General Grumpalodian Aardvark Bellay's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis 3Victoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided
    Victoria II: Heart of DarknessCK2: Holy Knight

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Berlin - Dustbin of History
    Posts
    6,100
    The smallest Rockstar i know. Glenn Danzig.
    [Micromod] - Old Building Names (Pre-1.10-building-names for CK2)

    CK2 Mods: User Mod Index (Don't forget to post about your mod compatibility)
    Deutsch CK2: German CK2 Sub-Forum (go there for the german translation 'repair' mod)

  17. #17
    I suppose the OP has a point... kind of? I mean, sure it might be twitchy, but I do raise my eyebrows at the rant.

    That being said, there's not real need to change Danzig. Almost everyone at Paradox knows Danzig, and a much smaller minority knows Gdansk. There's a difference between when using its native name when nobody else really cares or knows about it (Like the 's blabla Dutch city.), and switching to a native name when its counterpart is the one recognized by nearly everyone. It's just a minor aesthetic issue that barely even affects gameplay anyhow.

    As for being part of the HRE, giving Germany Meissen & Saxony, and preferrably Brandenburg included, and leaving Pommerania out of the HRE would do wonders.

  18. #18
    Field Marshal Hootieleece's Avatar
    HoI AnthologyDeus VultDivine WindHOI3: Their Finest HourVictoria: Revolutions
    SengokuVictoria II: Heart of DarknessRome: Vae VictisCK2: Holy KnightEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,153
    Blog Entries
    3
    @original poster Since you are living in Southern California. I will infer from the vehemence of your arguments. You are American with Polish ancestors. THIS IS A GAME. WHO REALLY CARES WHAT THEY CALL SUCH AND SUCH CITY/PROVINCE. As long a we can all find it on a map. The map is a GAMEBOARD where the GAME is played out. Enjoy the game! its probably better than you could come up with on your own.

    I'm AMERICAN but proud of my ancestors too. Being Afro-American, Bohemian, German, English and Irish.

    I agree with your saying Kingdom of Pommerainia shouldn't be in HRE at start, but I don't think it shoud be De Jure Polish either. Especially with De jure drift in place.

  19. #19
    Well, the names on the map aren't necessarily those in existence in 1066.

    Let's consider "Oranienburg" (a holding in Brandenburg). Place was only given that name in the 17th century (in honour of the Dutch House of Orange) and was a place of negligible importance until then. Now that's a poor choice when cities like Prenzlau or Frankfurt were flourishing medieval cities over here in the Margravate of Brandenburg.

    Personally, I'd have gone with the most current historical name used in English.

    Prague instead of Praha
    The Hague instead of Den Haag
    Breslau instead of Wroclaw
    Moscow instead of Moskva
    Lisbon instead of Lisboa
    Munich instead of München
    Danzig instead of Gdansk

    I think the idea of balkanising the map with non-English names (for the English version of the game) was a wrongheaded idea. One simple standard (most current historical name in English) should have been the way to go.

    Now the map is simply inconsistent. For the game doesn't go with Roma, but Rome. Good call going with the common name in English.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascanian View Post
    Well, the names on the map aren't necessarily those in existence in 1066.

    Let's consider "Oranienburg" (a holding in Brandenburg). Place was only given that name in the 17th century (in honour of the Dutch House of Orange) and was a place of negligible importance until then. Now that's a poor choice when cities like Prenzlau or Frankfurt were flourishing medieval cities over here in the Margravate of Brandenburg.

    Personally, I'd have gone with the most current historical name used in English.

    Moscow instead of Moskva
    Munich instead of München
    Well, we have to remember, that it is still a game.

    I picked this two cities you mentioned just to point out, that both of these (if I remember correctly) didn't even exist at the beginning of the game.

    And I'm not sure, that Aachen (the city I live in at the moment) was already called Aachen back then.

    Those are just compromises.

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts