Gdansk – Danzig (My Rant, Enter At Your Own Risk)

[SonofWinter]

Could the name on the map please be changed and everything related to it? Danzig is a nice German name but this has been a mostly Polish city for the majority of the last millennium and no amount of historical revisionism is going to make it a German city, certainly not during this time period or most of the last 1,000 years of the existence of this City.

And please knock it off, with making it a part of the HRE. It wasn’t a part of the HRE, even once during the entire span of this game. I don’t care how many HRE fanbois you have. It wasn’t founded by Germans, it wasn’t ruled by Germans (during this time period) and it shouldn’t be represented as German in game and giving it a German name, has a way of making it sound like they had some legitimate claim to this city, I call B.S. no they didn’t, you know it, I know it and so does everyone else.

Again, KNOCK IT OFF.

[DreadLindwyrm]

A lot of cities are named in the form most familiar to the English speaking world. Thus Danzig rather than Gdansk. It isn't revisionism trying to make it a German city. It's just that the majority of the English speaking world know it as such.

If you've got this many complaints about the game, why not mini-mod Poland so it suits you?

[thrashing mad]

Marienburg in 1066 is much worse case.

[nyah]

A lot of cities are named in the form most familiar to the English speaking world. Thus Danzig rather than Gdansk. It isn't revisionism trying to make it a German city. It's just that the majority of the English speaking world know it as such.

If you've got this many complaints about the game, why not mini-mod Poland so it suits you?

I think the confusion arises because Danzig/Gdansk was settled by a lot of German speakers, which is why it has a Germanic name and a big Germanic influence. He is right thought that it should not be part of the HRE though because during this period it was part of Poland and later the Teutonic order, before reverting to Poland again just at the end of the game's timeframe. There isn't a reason for it not becoming part of the HRE during gameplay though.

[Alerias]

Pretty much every province and city on the map is called however we tend to call it in English (I guess if you play localizations, probably the same deal).

And the city is well known as Danzig, whilst nobody has the slightest clue what "Gdansk" is. I guess that's how you're calling Danzig nowadays? This is probably just about making the name and the landmark recognizable not to poke at your unresolved fratricidal feuds with your neighbors.

[luk3Z]

This is interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gda%C5%84sk#Names

[thrashing mad]

And the city is well known as Danzig, whilst nobody has the slightest clue what "Gdansk" is.

Among paradox games nerds you mean? IIRC devs commented on the issue before release, that name was chosen simply because most paradox gamers are familiar with 'Danzig', which was always used in EU, Vic, or HoI.

[The_Blind_One]

Pretty much every province and city on the map is called however we tend to call it in English (I guess if you play localizations, probably the same deal).

And the city is well known as Danzig, whilst nobody has the slightest clue what "Gdansk" is. I guess that's how you're calling Danzig nowadays? This is probably just about making the name and the landmark recognizable not to poke at your unresolved fratricidal feuds with your neighbors.

To be honest, I don't think the majority of people know the name Danzig untill they play one of these games...

And if these games refer to it as danzig, like EU3 did (the reason I know about danzig) then it keeps promoting the idea of the german name when the polish name is more accurate. I would consider his critique to be fairly genuine considering this has further ramifications in how we perceive gdanks in the future if a territorial dispute was to take place over it (hypotheticaly speaking ofcourse).

It really should be named Gdansk.

''The Hague'', as most english people know the dutch city of ''S-Gravenhagen'' is still named after its own linguistic language (my own, dutch).

To name Gdansk, Danzig, actualy breaks with the nomenclature of the game.

A german player that conquers Gdansk later and converts the population to germans, yeah...then he should name it Danzig...but untill then it should be called Gdansk.

[barny]

And please knock it off, with making it a part of the HRE.

If I had to guess, I would say, they changed it that way so you can't conquer the pagan duchies anymore and make them your primary title as a HRE vassal to get out of the crown laws of the HRE. In 1.04 you could conquer them (for example as the duke of Brandenburg) and make Mecklenburg your primary title. That way it didn't matter anymore, what crown laws the HRE had (like a medium or above crown authority).

This was an ahistoric change to prevent exploits of the game mechanic.

(As I said, it is just a guess)

[vaca_loca]

I don't see why is Gdansk is a problem, to most people Gdansk and Danzig should be tightly associated.

[Veldmaarschalk]

''The Hague'', as most english people know the dutch city of ''S-Gravenhagen'' is still named after its own linguistic language (my own, dutch).

For someone who is Dutch, you seem to have a hard time, writing the name properly

[Aardvark Bellay]

The people living around Danzig werent polish nor german and the name derives from the Gothes.
So Poland 0 - Germany 0.

Btw, theres a Poland mod which i guess changes names as well.
The names are for an international (english) version anyway.
Dont forget people in those days didnt give a damn for nationalism, thats why the german traders changed loyalty several times, because everthing that really mattered was tax and laws.
Cheers,

Nik

[Lord Din]

Among paradox games nerds you mean? IIRC devs commented on the issue before release, that name was chosen simply because most paradox gamers are familiar with 'Danzig', which was always used in EU, Vic, or HoI.

I wouldn't even recognize Danzig if it wasn't for the Danzig or War decision in HOI 3/Various WWII books.

[chatnoir17]

The name Danzig always reminds me about an horse.

[barny]

The name Danzig always reminds me about a horse.

Don't forget the band!

[Aardvark Bellay]

The smallest Rockstar i know. Glenn Danzig.

[Hyo]

I suppose the OP has a point... kind of? I mean, sure it might be twitchy, but I do raise my eyebrows at the rant.

That being said, there's not real need to change Danzig. Almost everyone at Paradox knows Danzig, and a much smaller minority knows Gdansk. There's a difference between when using its native name when nobody else really cares or knows about it (Like the 's blabla Dutch city.), and switching to a native name when its counterpart is the one recognized by nearly everyone. It's just a minor aesthetic issue that barely even affects gameplay anyhow.

As for being part of the HRE, giving Germany Meissen & Saxony, and preferrably Brandenburg included, and leaving Pommerania out of the HRE would do wonders.

[Hootieleece]

@original poster Since you are living in Southern California. I will infer from the vehemence of your arguments. You are American with Polish ancestors. THIS IS A GAME. WHO REALLY CARES WHAT THEY CALL SUCH AND SUCH CITY/PROVINCE. As long a we can all find it on a map. The map is a GAMEBOARD where the GAME is played out. Enjoy the game! its probably better than you could come up with on your own.

I'm AMERICAN but proud of my ancestors too. Being Afro-American, Bohemian, German, English and Irish.

I agree with your saying Kingdom of Pommerainia shouldn't be in HRE at start, but I don't think it shoud be De Jure Polish either. Especially with De jure drift in place.

[Ascanian]

Well, the names on the map aren't necessarily those in existence in 1066.

Let's consider "Oranienburg" (a holding in Brandenburg). Place was only given that name in the 17th century (in honour of the Dutch House of Orange) and was a place of negligible importance until then. Now that's a poor choice when cities like Prenzlau or Frankfurt were flourishing medieval cities over here in the Margravate of Brandenburg.

Personally, I'd have gone with the most current historical name used in English.

Prague instead of Praha
The Hague instead of Den Haag
Breslau instead of Wroclaw
Moscow instead of Moskva
Lisbon instead of Lisboa
Munich instead of München
Danzig instead of Gdansk

I think the idea of balkanising the map with non-English names (for the English version of the game) was a wrongheaded idea. One simple standard (most current historical name in English) should have been the way to go.

Now the map is simply inconsistent. For the game doesn't go with Roma, but Rome. Good call going with the common name in English.

[barny]

Well, the names on the map aren't necessarily those in existence in 1066.

Let's consider "Oranienburg" (a holding in Brandenburg). Place was only given that name in the 17th century (in honour of the Dutch House of Orange) and was a place of negligible importance until then. Now that's a poor choice when cities like Prenzlau or Frankfurt were flourishing medieval cities over here in the Margravate of Brandenburg.

Personally, I'd have gone with the most current historical name used in English.

Moscow instead of Moskva
Munich instead of München

Well, we have to remember, that it is still a game.

I picked this two cities you mentioned just to point out, that both of these (if I remember correctly) didn't even exist at the beginning of the game.

And I'm not sure, that Aachen (the city I live in at the moment) was already called Aachen back then.

Those are just compromises.