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Thread: Emigration/Immigration Fix

  1. #1

    Emigration/Immigration Fix

    Hey all,

    So the problem with the new patch is that there's barely any immigration going on in the game. Is there a way to fix it without resulting in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand becoming Indian colonies?

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Second Lieutenant DukoOsshiiKhan's Avatar
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    I much prefer the game this way. Your pops don't emigrate en masse to colonies or the Americas and if you are the UK your Indian pops don't fill up your colonies like Canada and Australia.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by DukoOsshiiKhan View Post
    I much prefer the game this way. Your pops don't emigrate en masse to colonies or the Americas and if you are the UK your Indian pops don't fill up your colonies like Canada and Australia.
    Is there a way in between to have mass migrations without the indian colonization of canada and australia?

  5. #5
    Second Lieutenant DukoOsshiiKhan's Avatar
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    Probably not. But colonization in these places was slow anyway.

  6. #6
    I have a immigration question. It's around 1880's and for some reason Argentina seems to be the number one choice for immigrants, despite being a presidential dictatorship with no voting rights and having few reforms in general. What's up with that?

  7. #7
    Argentina might be the only American nation without full RGO's/Factories/unemployment. Given the swing towards the Americas they might be picking the "last resort" so to speak.

  8. #8
    Corporal chrispec's Avatar
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    I've noticed that if you try to colonize something as an American nation nobody will move into the colonized area even if it makes sense that they would. For example as Mexico I colonized Colorado and 50 years later not a single Mexican has moved into the state. It would make sense that at least SOME Mexicans would move into Colorado.

  9. #9
    Major Shiggs713's Avatar
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    Yea the whole colonization/immigration thing is kinda wonky. It is very difficult to make any sense of why, when, or where people will want to migrate, other then they all obviously love the western hemisphere. As Japan I was able to get several African colonies turned to states, but mostly the regions were devoid of people by that time, vast numbers had moved away. Also other regions that are supposedly coded to receive more immigrants like most provinces in Oceania, fail to even reach 20k population. Japanese Bonin for example, was still partially colonial when my game ended, because nobody would move there, despite the fact that many of the people there were Japanese on game start.

  10. #10
    There's nowhere in-game where migration targeting is explained, but it is in the files - so here we go:

    First, country migration choices. Bear in mind that this table is only used when a POP emigrates - not when it moves to the colonies or within it's home nation.

    Code:
    country_migration_target =
    {
    	factor = 1
    
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 0.1
    		unemployment = 0.1
    	}
    This means a country has it's chance of being picked reduced by 90% if there's more than 10% unemployment in the country.

    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 2.0
    		has_pop_culture = THIS
    	}
    This means that POPs tend to prefer countries which have their own culture; I suspect it's mostly a sop to performance (lots of pops simply joining an exist pop of their culture have no performance impact)
    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 1.05
    		vote_franschise = wealth_voting
    	}
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 1.25
    		vote_franschise = universal_weighted_voting
    	}
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 1.5
    		vote_franschise = universal_voting
    	}
    These mean that the more democratic a country is, the more like POPs are to like it - from 5% more likely with wealth voting to 50% more likely with universal suffrage.

    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 4.0
    		OR = { 
    			continent = north_america
    			continent = south_america
    			continent = oceania
    		}
    	}
    	
    }

    And these ones finally mean that independent Australia, New Zealand and American nations are massively more likely to get immigrants than Old World nations.

    So, as an example, we have a POP who's decided he's leaving Newcastle. He checks every country in the world. For the sake of simplicity, we'll say that the USA has conquered North America, Ecuador has conquered South America, Britain never released Oz or NZ, and Russia has conquered every other nation left on earth.

    The POP first checks for unemployment. We'll say none of them are over 10%, so it ignores this part of the table. The only country which has British culture is Britain, but these POPs are leaving Britain so it's not a valid target. The USA has universal suffrage, and so it's 'score' goes up to 1.5, while Ecuador and Russia are both dictatorships. And finally, bother Ecuador and the USA are in the Americas, so they have their scores increased 400%.

    So, the USA has 1*1.5*4 = 6 weight, Ecuador has 1*4 = 4 weight, and Russia has 1 weight. The game effectively rolls an 11 sided dice, and if it gets 1-6 the POP goes to the USA, if it gets 7-10 the POP goes to Ecuador, and if it gets 11 the POP goes to Russia.


    Now, the province table. POPs who know which country they're headed to (be that the country they're already in, or a new nation) roll on this to determine where they want to go.

    Code:
    migration_target =
    {
    	factor = 0.01
    
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 0.1
    		unemployment = 0.1
    		state_scope = {
    			has_factories = no
    			}
    	}
    This makes POPs avoid areas with no factories and high unemployment.
    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 1.2
    		total_pops = 150000
    	}	
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 1.2
    		total_pops = 250000
    	}
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 1.2
    		total_pops = 500000
    	}
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 1.2
    		total_pops = 750000
    	}
    These modifiers attract POPs to big concentrations of population - so people will move from the countryside toward the city.

    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 0
    					AND = {
    				state_scope = {
    					has_factories = no
    				}
    				can_build_factory = no
    			}
    		OR = { 
    			unemployment_by_type = { type = farmers value = 0.1  }
    			unemployment_by_type = { type = labourers value = 0.1  }
    		}
    	}
    This prevents POPs from going to places with unemployment where factories can never be built.

    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 1.2
    		has_pop_culture = THIS
    	}
    Those POPs sure do love going to their own culture.
    Code:
    	modifier = {
        	factor = 0.25
        	has_culture_core = no
    	}
    This makes POPs prefer to move within the area of their home nation to areas outside of it - so if France has seized the Left Bank of the Rhine, Frenchmen would still rather remain in France than go into the captured German territory.
    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 2
    		state_scope = {
    					has_factories = yes
    				}
    	}
    Attracts POPs to factories.

    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 1.2
    		has_pop_religion = THIS
    	}
    Attracts POPs to places where their own religion is already present.
    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 1.5
    		any_core = { primary_culture = THIS }
    	}
    Attracts POPs even more to their own cultural cores.

    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 0.75
    		state_scope = {
    			is_slave = yes
    		}
    	}
    Makes POPs less likely to pick slave states when there's non-slave ones available - so more POPs moving to America head North rather than South.

    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 2
    		is_state_capital = yes
    	}
    POPs prefer the state capital to the surrounding provinces, clustering them even more into cities.

    Code:
    		
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 1.5
    		is_capital = yes
    	}
    Country capitals get an even bigger bonus, since everyone likes to live in the political hub of the nation.

    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 1.05
    		is_coastal = yes
    	}
    POPs slightly prefer to live at the seaside.

    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 0.6
    		terrain = mountain
    	}
    
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 0.1
    		terrain = desert
    	}
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 0.6
    		terrain = marsh
    	}
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 0.1
    		terrain = arctic
    	}
    POPs are less interested in these terrain types.

    Code:
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 2
    		life_rating = 40
    	}
    	modifier = {
    		factor = 2
    		life_rating = 50
    	}
    }
    POPs prefer to live in places with nice life ratings, like the big cities and California.



    Remember that POPs decide on the country they're going to BEFORE they look at terrain, or factories, or anything else, in a two-stage process (outlined on the wiki, by myself, here: http://www.paradoxian.org/vicky2wiki/Population).
    For every subtle and complicated question, there is a simple and straightforward answer, which is wrong.

    Creator of PDM:PoD for Heart of Darkness: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ownload-thread
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Creator of '1792' for March of the Eagles: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...69074-1792-mod

  11. #11
    Major Shiggs713's Avatar
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    wow, thanks

  12. #12
    Lt. General Sakkura's Avatar
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    Very nice explanation Naselus.

    Do you, by any chance, know if the gold rush provincial modifier acts on pops choosing target nation or target province, or both? Because the gold rushes I've seen tend to be underwhelming. No massive flood of 49'ers for example (I'm sure Oakland residents will approve).

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    Very nice explanation Naselus.

    Do you, by any chance, know if the gold rush provincial modifier acts on pops choosing target nation or target province, or both? Because the gold rushes I've seen tend to be underwhelming. No massive flood of 49'ers for example (I'm sure Oakland residents will approve).
    It effects any roll on the second (province target) table.
    For every subtle and complicated question, there is a simple and straightforward answer, which is wrong.

    Creator of PDM:PoD for Heart of Darkness: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ownload-thread
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Creator of '1792' for March of the Eagles: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...69074-1792-mod

  14. #14
    Lt. General Sakkura's Avatar
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    Alright, thanks. I guess the sheer number of US provinces just drowns it out a bit then. Along with the poor terrain modifier.

  15. #15
    Most US migrants head to cities (New York is a big draw), or else to California where the LR is higher.
    For every subtle and complicated question, there is a simple and straightforward answer, which is wrong.

    Creator of PDM:PoD for Heart of Darkness: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ownload-thread
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Creator of '1792' for March of the Eagles: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...69074-1792-mod

  16. #16
    Colonel JoeIsGreat's Avatar
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    Them's some interesting statistics.
    Tempted to cobble together a program in C that creates a virtual world, then use the variables above to model population distrobution over a few hundred games, then calculate an average. Could be useful for tweaking immigration.
    It always seemed pretty strange to me. I'd love to see states weighted by a minimum population size, below which pops will migrate their like crazy (depending on terrain type). American states just don't get populated enough outside of the East Coast. Detroit and Chicago are ghost towns in all my games.

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  18. #18
    Colonel zezeb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwolf915 View Post
    Was there ever a fix?
    Don't necromance threads, start a new one if you want to raise the subject again...
    There's foxes in the hen house,' cows out in the corn. The unions have been busted, their proud red banners torn'

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by zezeb View Post
    Don't necromance threads, start a new one if you want to raise the subject again...
    Apparently I can't start new threads because I must register the game and I refuse to do so. Long story. But if you know this fix for this please share it! POD has worked so far into the 40's.

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