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Claims - Test Your Knowledge!

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Apr 1, 2012
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  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
I challenge all true crusader kings to test their knowledge of the intricacies of claims! Which of the following scenarios allow you to add a territory one level below your rank to your realm. (For example, assume you are the Holy Roman Emperor and want the Kingdom of Poland.) Assume the claimants are not of your dynasty and the claimed territory is not de jure part of your realm.

  1. Marry yourself to a female claimant (inheritable). Have a kid and wait for both you and your wife to die. Now, playing as your kid, press the claim. (If it's a daughter, do inheritance laws in the target territory play a role?)
  2. Marry yourself to a female claimant (inheritable). Wait for you to have a kid and your wife to die, then press claims for the (unlanded) kid.
  3. Marry yourself to a female claimant (inheritable). Wait for you to have a son and and your wife to die, give your son a county, then press claims for the son. Wait for you to die and become your son.
  4. Marry yourself to a female claimant (non-inheritable). (If so, how?)
  5. Marry a male dynasty member to a female claimant (inheritable). Wait for them to have a kid and her to die, then press claims for the kid.
  6. Marry a male dynasty member to a female claimant (non-inheritable).
  7. Same as the last two, except you matrilineally marry a female dynasty member to a male claimant.
  8. Invite a male claimant to your court. Give him a county and press his claim. (What about if you give a duchy or kingdom?)
  9. Invite a female claimant to your court (inheritable). Marry her to a count (or to a courtier to whom you then give a county). Wait for them to have a kid and the claimant to die, so that the kid inherits the county. Press the kid's claim.
  10. Same as above, but with a non-inheritable female claimant.
  11. Other scenarios that work?

Have fun!
 
11. Get an anti pope, install him in Rome and make him excommunicate the king of Poland, Then find anyone in the world who has ties to the Polish Dynasty with a useable claim. Doesn't have to be invited, HRE Dukes intermarry with Poland all the time. Press their claims for the weakened Kingdom.
 
Okay, but does the excommunication actually allow a non-dynastic claimant to become your vassal, or simply reduce the opinion of the current liege and thereby reduce the levies he/she can raise? I don't care about the size of the armies I'll be facing.

Also, the "test your knowledge" thing was a complete joke - I'm bringing this up because I have no idea what the right answer is! Could somebody clarify which of the 10 scenarios don't work, and why?
 
1. Womens claims are no longer inheritable, so you'd need to press them to at least a white peace first, cannot do so in agnatic succession titles.
2&3 have same issue as above and also it depends on the title you're claiming, if it's the same level as you your son would become independent even if he is landed, and in any case he'd inherit you even if he is independent.
4. see 1.
5. see 1, otherwise yes as dynasty members become part of your realm unless the title is same level as yours.
6. see 1.
7. that works fine, unless same level title.
8. that works, unless same level title.
9&10 see 1.
edit: about the excommunication thing, I don't think it works quite that way... Excommunication only allows excommunication wars, that make the currect ruler abdicate.
 
Thanks! I think I understand it now, but I want to clarify one thing: if you marry a male dynasty member to a female claimant, press her claim and win, she doesn't become your vassal. When she dies and her son (who is of your dynasty) inherits, does the title suddenly become part of your realm? If so, why?
 
wainy said:
Thanks! I think I understand it now, but I want to clarify one thing: if you marry a male dynasty member to a female claimant, press her claim and win, she doesn't become your vassal. When she dies and her son (who is of your dynasty) inherits, does the title suddenly become part of your realm? If so, why?
Click to expand...

Short answer is no, unless the son in this case already has land within your realm.
The way it works is that if you press the claim of a member of your dynasty, they become part of your realm (unless you're pressing for an equal or higher title). On the other hand if you press claims for husbands or wives of your dynasty members they become independent, and if their children are of your dynasty, you've just installed your dynasty members to another realm. Therefore you should only press the spouses claim to a white peace so their children may get claims on the titles.

One more thing you may do is a bit confusing, but I'll try to be simple:
If your dynasty member is married to a title claimant and the children are of your dynasty, you can press the claim fully and once your dynasty members heir (of your dynasty) gains the title, you can try to invite his or her brothers/sisters, who are now claimants and also of your dynasty, to your court and then press their claims against the title holder who is of your dynasty, and now you'd gain the title you were after.
Basically what you want to do is marry all your sons to female rulers not-matrilineally so that 50 years later every title is owned by your dynasty, and all claimants to those titles are also of your dynasty.
 
Let me try to summarize what I've learned:

To get a title you really want, which is at the same rank as you, marry a female claimant, press her claim, and enforce demands. Hope your heir is one of your kids, and you get the title. If you fail, make a white peace so that the claim is inherited, and you can either press again in 10 years or wait until you become your kid and the female claimant dies.

If the female's claim is inheritable (e.g. Margaret of Wessex's claim on England at the game's start), either press her claim or wait until she dies and press your kid's claim, enforcing demands either way. There's no need to give your kid a county first. You can even wait until the female claimant dies and press for your kid, or wait until you become your kid.

If you want to inherit more than one title per generation, you still can, as long as the title's rank is at least one below yours. Here's what you can do, in order of usefulness:

  1. Landless male claimant and you have a county to give: invite claimant to court, give him a county, press claims and enforce demands. Best because of the immediate effect, although the new title holder won't be of your dynasty.
  2. Unmarried landless male claimant (inheritable) and you have a female dynasty member, but you either don't have a county to give or you want to wait a generation before fighting: marry matrilineally, wait until claim is passed on to kid (now of your dynasty), press claims for kid and enforce demands. (If possible - matrilineal marriages can be hard since claimants tend to be of high rank.) If you have to wait, this is your best option. It's luck-dependent but you get to check if you're lucky right away, with the matrilineal marriage.
  3. Unmarried female ruler willing to marry a male dynasty member: marry them, wait until they have multiple of your dynasty, invite one of the younger kids to your realm (a fairly sure bet) and press the kid's claim. Zarky, I don't think this comes up too often but I suppose you're right that it's useful since you only have to fight one war. It's more luck-dependent than #2 because you need multiple kids from the marriage, and this luck factor doesn't show up until later.
  4. Unmarried landless female claimant and you have a male dynasty member: marry non-matrilineally, press claims for female and make white peace, wait until claim is passed on to kid (now of your dynasty), press claims for kid and enforce demands. Worse because you have to fight two wars in addition to waiting a generation.
  5. Unmarried landless female claimant and you lack male dynasty members: marry (matrilineally if necessary) to a male courtier in your realm, press her claim to a white peace, wait for their kid to inherit the claim and the county (so that the kid is your vassal), press claims for the kid and enforce demands. Worse because, in addition to fighting two wars and waiting a generation, the new title holder isn't of your dynasty.

Do you agree with the ranking, and does this cover all the potentially-useful possibilities?
 
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