Crusader Kings II - PATCH RELEASED (v1.05e) - Checksum: BDNP

[Nuno]

These games are meant to give the illusion of plausibly simulating history, and when you can gain a Kingdom by pressing a random-nowhere's claim just because you granted him a barony, that's not achieved.

I agree, because i wouldn't even have to give that barony for him to agree with the whole deal... :P

There's a consistent pattern in Paradox patching of loopholes being closed and the game becoming a bit harder as a result, and thats fine. Especially in a case like this where, even with ZERO modding skills, if you like the current system, you can simply backup the current /common/cb_types.txt file and be certain to be able to overwrite any future changes using the current file.

But won't that risk some incompatibilities? I don't have time to research how the files interact with each other. But saving a file from a previous version and use it seems risky. Would be real fine if it is completely compatible.

[Falc]

You're free to mod it back to how it was , all this stuff happens in cb_types.txt you know. But the way its worked since release isn't really plausible/historical/believeable so its not such a stretch to desire a change. Furthermore, multiplayer balance is an issue.

The thing is, in and of itself, I find no fault with it from a historical perspective.

A person, who has a claim on a piece of land but sees no chance of him ever actually getting it, decides to defect to the court of a bigger guy, under the promise that the bigger guy will back him militarily when he stakes his claim, in return for becoming the bigger guy's vassal once he's got his claim. Sounds perfectly reasonable.

Yet, in real history, it never happened on the scale that we see possible in the game. That is, I believe, where changes need to be made. You shouldn't be able to just keep doing this over and over again, putting your realm into near-continuous war and expansion. Maybe implement something along the lines of War Exhaustion from EU3?

[Alerias]

But won't that risk some incompatibilities? I don't have time to research how the files interact with each other. But saving a file from a previous version and use it seems risky. Would be real fine if it is completely compatible.

In the long run, once they add entire new CBs, it could be an issue, you're right. But you know, Ive learned to know cb_types well and thinkered with it as of well, and I can mod it fine. Given that this seems to be a big deal to some, if they change it substantially in the future, I'd be happy to provide a modded up-to-date file that reverts things to how they are right now where it comes to claims war. I may not think it's a really satisfying status quo, but if other people do, I'm always happy to help when it's this relatively simple.

[Alerias]

. You shouldn't be able to just keep doing this over and over again, putting your realm into near-continuous war and expansion. Maybe implement something along the lines of War Exhaustion from EU3?

That pretty much exists, its what the "levies raised too long" penalty is meant to simulate...

One other idea Ive been thinkering with is to allow the current status quo to persist indefinitely (and indeed, allow it even for invited claimants who have not been granted land in your realm), but deny any claim wars above ducal-level unless it's a personal claim of the ruler. In short, you could take apart foreign kingdoms duchy by duchy but you'd need to marry into Royal or Imperial claims "yourself" to press those at all. Although... I like the ability to change a foreign ruler without making him my vassal so this idea needs more work.

Historically, I can think of few "royal and up" claim wars in this era that were NOT based on the personal claims of the monarch. Both in the HYW and the Scandinavian crown conflicts this was the case at least. Perhaps I'm forgetting about others, but there weren't THAT many.

[CJL78]

Summary of my 1.5 Crusade frustration thread, sorry if any of these are known issues:

1. Pope sometimes calls off Crusades that are just barely started and/or winning

2. Holy Orders can join the Crusade on their own, even after being hired, causing them to leave the lord that hired them and wasting that lord's 150+ Piety

3. Holy Orders join Crusades but cannot seem to hire ships to take them to the Holy Land, thus making them completely useless

1.5 Crusade changes would be great, except... the Pope is in control of the war, and ALWAYS calls off the Crusade after I capture a few holdings and I'm winning. WTF?

well this has basically ruined the game I started on 1.5 now, seeing as my ambition is to become paragon of virtue and I was really relying on gaining some piety from the Crusade. I've replayed it several times, even from before the Pope calling the Crusade to begin with, but as soon as we get there and start taking stuff he calls it off..

...

Ok, I continued on anyway...

Second Crusade... the Pope's not calling it off this time! but it's not as much of a success either, as the Muslims are more unified.

However it could easily be won if I could hire the Holy Orders - in fact, I did, but then they disappear... reload, try again... again they disappear. The Holy Orders are joining the Crusade on their own, but can't get any ships, and they're stuck at the Pope's new home in Sweden!!!!!!

1. Why are the Holy Orders able to join the Crusade on their own? Why do I waste 150+ Piety to hire them if they can thereafter join the Crusade on their own and leave my service? Absolute insanity.

2. If Holy Orders should join on their own, perhaps they could be given money or an event that hires some of the new merc fleets so they can actually help the cause?

Honestly, 1.5 could have fixed most of the problems I had with this game, but now Crusades are completely unplayable. What a joke.

[sTeeL86]

Your answer is to just mod it out? I play MP. Its not exactly policable is it.

If the game came with a minute amount of documentation, maybe I would. But even with a coding background, its hard to guess at what some of it means and the effect of changing certain things. Not to mention the severe lack of help on the modding forums. Must be easy for those who have modded previous games however this is the first of this series Ive even looked at.

[BalroG_]

HOWEVER pressing the claims of a dynasty member is broken If Im Emperor and my brother or son has a direct claim on the throne of Sicily, I shouldnt have to give him land to keep him as vassal after pressing it. The tooltip says pressing De Jure or Dynasts' claims makes the claimant your vassal. The de jure part works. Claiming for unlanded Dynasts is broken once again.

Really? Uhm, that sucks. I really hoped this topic can be closed now.

[Alerias]

Really? Uhm, that sucks. I really hoped this topic can be closed now.

Like I edited in, its only broken for titles above Duke, which means its probably an intended restriction, even though it makes little sense in the context where you can claim royal thrones with anyone you land first.

[badger_ken]

might be something else broken on claims, not sure if this has been reported, i'm pretty sure this behavior is due to one of the recent hotfixes:

as the count of forez, i have a claim on the country of Viennes (I think that's the spelling - the big country to the south). My liege is the duke of dauphne. Viennes' liege is the duke of provence. Both dukes are lieges of the HRE. In order to declare war for Viennes, I have to DOW the HRE - our "lowest common ancestor" in the tree. So far, so good.

BUT, as soon as I DOW, I get a message that the "war has ended inconclusively". This is with 1.05e.

[SaintEsteban]

might be something else broken on claims, not sure if this has been reported, i'm pretty sure this behavior is due to one of the recent hotfixes:

as the count of forez, i have a claim on the country of Viennes (I think that's the spelling - the big country to the south). My liege is the duke of dauphne. Viennes' liege is the duke of provence. Both dukes are lieges of the HRE. In order to declare war for Viennes, I have to DOW the HRE - our "lowest common ancestor" in the tree. So far, so good.

BUT, as soon as I DOW, I get a message that the "war has ended inconclusively". This is with 1.05e.

Odd, you should only have to declare against Provence, anyways.

[badger_ken]

Odd, you should only have to declare against Provence, anyways.

that's what i thought as well, but when I tried to it was grayed out, I believe the X was something about how he wasn't my liege or my liege's liege.

[Holy.Death]

Quick question from me, does that...:

- Women and illegitimate bastards no longer get pressed (inheritable) claims on their parents' titles

...mean that children won't inherit their mother's claims (so now they can only inherit from their father's side)?

[Sleight of Hand]

Holy.Death: Just to clarify, do women still get claims whilst they're alive or does it just mean their claims can't be inherited by their children? For example if Henry I died and Stephen usurped the throne would Matilda still get a claim, even if she'd lose it at her death?

[Holy.Death]

Holy.Death: Just to clarify, do women still get claims whilst they're alive or does it just mean their claims can't be inherited by their children?

I am especially interested in the second part: as one way to expand your realm is to marry your character/son/heir to someone who has claims on something else. It's not a big deal to me if women can't inherit it for themselves but it'll seriously hurt if their progeny can't inherit their mother's claims. It will also affect my whole strategy of marriages, so I ask to be sure.

[Habraka]

Women are still able to inherit claims, but instead of those claims being automatically inheritable by her offspring, you now have to press them in a war in order for them to be inheritable for her children. For example, you are a duke marrying a daughter of the Holy Roman Emperor. Emperor dies, daughter (your wife) gets a claim, which her children cannot inherit. You press her claim on the HRE by declaring war, which will make your wife's claim inheritable, then you end the war with a white peace. Now you'll children will be able to inherit their mother's claim on the HRE.

[Sleight of Hand]

Women are still able to inherit claims, but instead of those claims being automatically inheritable by her offspring, you now have to press them in a war in order for them to be inheritable for her children. For example, you are a duke marrying a daughter of the Holy Roman Emperor. Emperor dies, daughter (your wife) gets a claim, which her children cannot inherit. You press her claim on the HRE by declaring war, which will make your wife's claim inheritable, then you end the war with a white peace. Now you'll children will be able to inherit their mother's claim on the HRE.

That's exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks very much Habraka.

[bilbo2810]

but you can only press a female's claim if the title in question has agnatic-cognatic or absolute cognatic as succession law... so in the case of HRE, it won't work unless the law has already been changed.

[panosmel]

only 1 thing left to change.the levie-declare war thing.well it might be letting the ai prepare but still if you command a huge empire like the byzantine one,it needs sometime to attack the truks from bulgaria.maybe not declaring war if you are out of your borders?

ABOUT THE PATCH: finally,no more wars for no reason

[Sleight of Hand]

I guess 1.05f can't be far off as the invasion_cb and text bugs need addressing at the very least. Oh, and I think multiplayer via metaserver is still broken.

[EscagirlUK]

Are we *ever* going to get playable pagans and muslims without a mod?


Also, love the new little pop-up about how somebody has died. Do wish they got a little trait icon on their character sheet, though, for when we go back through the fambly tree.


Also, don't suppose next patch could include a few romance events for homosexual characters? Mine never seem to get themselves a lover - even when their spouse's are confronting them after witnessing gay flirtings!

And, maybe, some more info on the character cheets if your children develop a crush? Like who it is - in case you forget, or it happens when they're fostered to somebody out of court? My favourite part of CK1 was marrying off my kids and courtiers to the people they got teen crushes on - even if I had to assassinate a few people to get them married to said crush.