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Thread: America and All the Troubles II (A Comparative AAR DI:S&S to FtML)

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    Chapter 19 - Necktie and Pigbelly - (Jul 12th - Sep 6th 1942)

    Top Secret

    To Commander Pacific Fleet

    Subject: Operation Necktie

    You are hereby ordered to transport the 3rd Army from Los Angeles to the port of Oosthaven. The Netherlands goverment is allowing us to stage at this port for Invasions onto the Asian mainland. The 3rd Army has 5 corps of infantry. Each corps will land at a different location. Planned invasion sites are Batu Pahat, Jertih, Sichon, Nakhon Panthum and My Tho. These landing will try to time the landings at the same time to prevent any defending troops to consolodate at a given landing site. The Army Aircorps will assist as much as they can, but feel that with the limited airfields held by the Allies at this time in the region, most of the air cover will need to be done by Aircraft Carriers.

    The Atlantic Fleet is transfering a Transportion Fleet to the Pacific Fleet to help accomplish these landings. Your full support to defend the landings and to assist in Anti-submarine warfare and convoy attack missions is required.

    The objectives of the mission are as follows.
    1. Retaking of Singapore for a stable supply port for this operation and retaking of the lands lost by the United kingdom by the Japan last Year.

    2. The attack on Siams lands to try to remove this ally from Japan's side.

    3. To cut off the land supply route through this vital area to increase the need of Japan to supply their armies in India via sea convoys which cna be sunk.

    Date of the attack is pending on weather and the time needed to prepare for this operation.

    Walter Bendell-Smith
    Chief of Staff

    Top Secret
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    Top Secret

    To Commander Atlantic Fleet

    Subject: Operation Pigbelly

    You are hereby ordered to transport the 1st Marine Corps and the 24th Infantry corps from Oslo Norway to the port of Tobruk in North Africa. The above forces are going to preform an invasiom of Greece. The intended landing site for the 1st Marine Corps is Nafplio. The intended landing site for the 24th Army Corps is Katerini. These landing will try to time the landings at the same time to prevent any defending troops to consolodate at a given landing site. The Army Aircorps will assist as much as they can. The use of Aircraft Carriers is highly recommended, but is at your descretion. According to the Commander of her Magesty's Naval Forces, the Italian Navy in the area has been damaged, but may try to defend this area controlled by the Italians.

    The objectives of the mission are as follows.
    1. Atempt to liberate Greece from the Italians. And use Athens as a supply Port for the Units in the area.

    2. If resistance in the area is light, An attack on Bulgaria which even though is not part of the Axis is supplying Crude Oil to the Axis Powers.

    3. To extend the defensive lines of the Axis Powers to weaken their defenses on other fronts.

    4. A possible but unlikely linkup with the russian front.

    Date of the attack is pending on weather and the time needed to prepare for this operation.

    Walter Bendell-Smith
    Chief of Staff

    Top Secret

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________


    I am not trying to extend the war by attacking Greece instead of Italy, It is known that the AI defends Itally badly, so I was planning on doing this way to try to play as different as possible. I am also not sure how to trigger standard operations like Overlord. so taking Greece might be a good way to try to get some of my objectives for winning the game. With that said, here goes the next few months and what happens.



    The first thing that happened in the game is that the Germans and thier allies attacked us at Wismar. We still have more troops the that are attacking but I felt a counter attack along the line south of Wismar was needed to show who can push who. So I did 3 sperate attacks, One from Schwerin to Parchim, One from Luchow to Osterburg and the last from Ueizen to Salzwedel. Each attack is atleast with 2 divisions, 1 Armor and 1 Infantry and where possible from more then one direction. I haven't determined weither this strike will be to open a path to berlin or not, it does seem on the border there is Italians and other smaller country units which should be easier to displace.





    As the fight continues I decide to move the entire line slowly feforming it one county to the west. The left Weisbaden empty as they shift units to the north to stop this advance, It is a good time to advance the linesince alot of units are moving and they will lose there bonus for being dug in. To prevent having too many places from which to attack the units in Parchim, I decided to attack Stendal from Osterburg. Most of these attacks seem to be going well. The units were all resting while I took norway from their hands. I hope this show of force tells the axis powers we are not to be messed with.



    As the shift in the Axis powers line, they free up a direct route to Berlin on the 24th of July. As I was still getting the attacks ready for the two operations I detailed earlier, I decided to try to take Berlin to gain the supplies locally for my Armies. If I can defeat Germany most of France and Poland should become free, solving most of the problems in Europe. I should be able to "Mop up" then. I don't think Italy, Hungary, Romainia and Croatia and what ever other countries I need to deatg will be all that hard after that. OfcoarseI am really not sure if I have enough forces as when I continue to attack Germany my front will become weaker and weaker. But maybe Germany will do the same.



    To prevent a rush of units from the south toward Berlin I decided to make strikes into their line south of Berlin. My hope is to encircle what I can and delay movements north. By the 31st of July I was attacking Germany from 3 sides, with units moving into to surround Berlin. I was quickly shifting units northward to seal my line, but the attack on Berlin was too important not to use all the forces I can. By the 2nd Berlin was surrounded and being attack from 5 directions. It seems that only a few garrison divisions were placed in Berlin and by the 3rd their formations disolved and Berlin was ours. But Germany Fights on.









    On the 7th of August we launched both operations. Operation Pig Belly was launched successfully and by the 9th it was well on its way with the units landing on the beaches heading to take the local ports. Unfortunately the transports for the 2 airborne units were not ready to transport them, so I tried to wait to put them into action. Operation Necktie was also underway. The landings did not time properly by eventually all 5 landers were made successfully On the 10th our units in Germany surrounded a group of mixed axis powers infantry. On the 12th a new group of Fighters, and a group of Interceptors were completed just in time to send to Athens after it was liberated. On the 13th we liberated Singapore. There was a medium size fleet in Singapore harbor and it came and attacked us. We defeated the entire fleet but with heavy loses of our own including a battleship.











    On the 15th it was bitter sweet. Siam finally surrendered but Japan annexed Nepal also, so their attack in India continued. We also caught a small fleet of 3 CLs and 3 DDs trying to escape port and sunk them in the straights of Malicca. In Germany the German line started colasping and we pushed in all directions we could. The armies pushed toward key cities in what was poland and pushed to retake the French Moginot Line. On the 20th of August, the USA decided enough of Greece was free that the declared it liberated. By the end of the month Greece was completely free and our forces wer working north from Operation Pig Belly. In germany the entire German/French border was in our hands and units were moving along the swiss border toward the Italian border.









    On the 6 of September German gave in as most of Germany was in our hands. Our units were almost to Paris and most of what Germany took from Poland was also free. As soon as Germany Surrendered, Poland was liberated also. All of france besides Vichy became free as well. There is still several Axis units in Poland, but our forces were told to mop up first then to proceed to taking out anyone in europe still under an Axis leader.







    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________

    Summary: I did not plan to conquer Germany so easily, but they themselves left the door open by being at war with the Netherlands but not attacking. Probably Japan declared war with the Netherlands, but the AI for Germany never attacked. As I look at the map, I got alot of questions like, Can I take Romania and Hungary before the Soviets do? Do I want to? Do I have enough forces around Siam? Did I attack Japan too early? Why did when the first go around I made Germany an Democracy, why wasn't it placed in the Allies. (I had to play it twice since I thought by making Germany a democracy, it would like puppeting take Germany out of the Axis, but instead of being a puppet it would become a free nation. I am not sure if this was caused by have alot of troops in the country or what, having to take Germany a second time within a week of their surrender was stupid. So I decided to puppet the second time. maybe after the rest of the Axis powers in Europe are gone I can release Germany, I don't know how the AI is. We will see over the next few months of the game what I decide.
    Last edited by azedalis; 03-05-2012 at 14:01.
    Ammerica and All the Troubles II AAR a Dies Irae: Stars and Stripes and FtML Comparison AAR
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by azedalis View Post
    Davy, The last patch "fixed" the problem of Pearl Harbor. What I did was to manually trigger it because it was broken. Normally I wouldn't do it but, in this case to show everyone the intended events I manually triggered it the day they declared war. I played it several times and Japan would consistantly declare war without Pearl Harbor several weeks early. I am not sure the loss of 2 battleships, the penalty to naval moral for months and such are worth the 1000 MP. The event number is 20350, so all I did was press "~" key then type in the box "event 20350" then return and the "~" again to close the box. This was the only "Cheat" I did and I believe it was justified since the event chain is broken. I meant to mention that is what I did and got caught up in the story and game.

    Veritas, Thank you so much for reading and awarding me with the writAAR of the week. I slowed down playing the game because I was not sure if I had much of a following and CK2 caught my eye. But since I got the award it has got me inspired to continue it. Infact, I will play the next few months now to get a new chapter in today hopefully.
    Yes I saw it and installed it right away. Now I am in jan 1940.
    Hope it works now

    And congratulations with your award!!!
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    Fan of the week 11 november 2012

  3. #43
    Congratulations on the award!
    Keep up the good work!

  4. #44
    I think some changing of borders is needed too...any chance of loading up as Germany to release Austria and the Czechs? Or is there an event in DISS to do that? Though I guess you'd need to take slovakia and hungary to properly release the czechs....

  5. #45
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    Chapter 20 - Rug Pull and Piecemeal - (Sept 12 -

    The Oval Office is well lit. The only person directly in the room is the President. He has picked up a special telephone. After a few second, he started talk, "Winston, it is looking promising in Europe. There is celebrations in the street as people realize that the war in Europe is closer to ending. I am still concerned what will happen to the countries of Romania and Hungary if we allow the Soviets to take them out. I am still not happy with Stallin for Invading Poland, Luthauania, Latvia, Astonia and Finland. I want as many free elections in Europe as possible."

    After a short pause, President Roosevelt obviously listening to the other party on the phone, he replied, "I didn't know it was going so bad in India. I don't know what I can do right now about it, I was hoping freeing Siam would help the situation, but they are still advancing? I will talk to the Cabinet and see what can be done. I want to remove the Axis threat in Europe before taking on Japan full force, our current avaliable forces in the area is fairly light with Japan resistance around Siam increasing."

    "There is one more thing we need to discuss. Since you are asking us for more support with our troops, the United states feel that the United States must increase its support to its own armed services. With the threat of German U-boats over and hopefully by the end of the year, the end of fighting in Europe, we feel that the need of the Lend-Lease Act is at an end for the Soviet Union. I also send a diplomatic message to Stalin stating the same thing, support for his regime will not help us to "free" Europe. If we are going to free the world of the Axis threat, we need to become stronger."

    __________________________________________________ ____________________________

    Looking at the Pacific Theater first. I wanted to see how badly the Japanese surface fleet has been mauled compared to the US. Japan so far has lost during the war 3 CVs, 3 CVLs, 3 BBs, 1 BC, 17 CAs, 18 CLs, 32 DDs, 18 TPs and 13 SSs. USA fleet losses are 1 BB, 4 CAs, 4 CLs, 11 DDs, 2 TPs and 4 SSs. (Not including the losses from Pearl Harbor.) We are doing alot better then I thought and do realized USA did not destroy all of thr Japanese Fleet, these are total loses from each of our respected fleets. Most of the USA losses were from the OOB from the start of the game. I know the Japanese should have more submarines and carriers atleast, or I would hope so, but so far Japan has had heavy losses and I would assume the IJN is at 50% or less of its largest amount. As for the USN, it is still growing in size.

    Now looking at the the Map of Asia and middle east. My concern is that the taking of Siam has slowed the taking over of India but has not stopped it. There is only 2 VP sites left in the area and only one ir reachable on the coast. So I decided to make a new operation called Rug Pull in which I will send my transports to Palaw where I almost have a Corps ready to be transported to Bombay. I am hoping in another few days another Corps forming in Kota Bharu will be ready to transport into India. I will probably send it to Mangalore to hopefully keep the Japanese from taking the tip of India. The object of these landings is to confront any axis units trying to take India and push them back as much as possible. Hopefully they will use more supply and in effect pull the rug out from under them.

    That will only leave 6 divisions to the east of Siam which should expand the area taken and defeat any units it encounters, or atleast that is the plan.

    There will be 8 in the West and 1 in Singapore to defend just incase the Japanese try an invasion. I find that unlikely with their loss of 18 transports, but you never know. The eight in the west will be set up with 1 each of the provences north of Rangoon and the rest 1 area to the west of Siam as far up as they will go. Alot of Siam's units are returning and I am hoping between my forces and theirs if they are needed we willbe able to "Hold the Line" Right now there is a truce between Japan and Siam so hopefully their defensive units will not be needed. We have 15 divisions of Marines Combined Armed Units in production but they will not be ready till near the end of December. So I am hoping to hold the line till then. In January that will allow us to do shore invasions increasing the frontage in India to allow fast retaking of the area.

    __________________________________________________ ____________________________

    As far as I can tell the Italian Navy is far from what it use to be, infact here is what is listed for sunk ships. 1 BB, 4 CAs, 11 CLs, 17 DDs and a whopping 30 SSs. I believe Italy start the game with 3 or 4 BBs so there is a fleet to be worried about. But we will see how useful it is to them, especially when I can attack from the north without seashore landings. Operation Piecemeal will be as follows. As Germany retreats their units from foreign soil, the defenses of the other countries will colapse quickly I feel. Italy does seem to have brought a large amount of troops to attack the divisions I landed in greece and are slowly retaking Yugoslavia as we speak. So my initial plan is to attack any forces I can in Poland to retake the rest of the lands I can from them. At the same time Stategic redeploy as many units to the German borders so I can attack any and all axis units. As far as I can tell Japan is the Leader of the Axis now, meaning we should be able to isolate the Bulgarian Oil Fields when we take Romainia. My main goal right away will be the little countries, but as units get close to itally they will invade.

    __________________________________________________ ____________________________

    The first things I did before letting time pass, are releasing Iceland, stopping the Lend Lease Act for the Soviet union and replaced a few council members. I then moved needed transport for the new operations, set orders for units in German to move or strategically move to where they can be prepared to cross the german borders for the needed attacks in europe. make sure all units are moving where desired in the asian front. I also sent units in Poland to help mop up other axis members units in Poland, hey should be out of their supply network and easy pickings. (I decided not to end the Lend-lease fully because I rather have the IC efficiency in Production vs. the ICs themselves which increases my Consumer Goods needs, the loss of supplies and fuel is not great, but since were playing the US, its not really a problem. I don't know what the UK gets out of it, but anything is better then nothing.)



    (Post not finished, will post the action part of this chapter later after I finish playing it out to a date that makes sense.)
    Last edited by azedalis; 05-05-2012 at 15:50.
    Ammerica and All the Troubles II AAR a Dies Irae: Stars and Stripes and FtML Comparison AAR
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonMudra View Post
    I think some changing of borders is needed too...any chance of loading up as Germany to release Austria and the Czechs? Or is there an event in DISS to do that? Though I guess you'd need to take slovakia and hungary to properly release the czechs....
    I have no idea. but it might be better to keep Germany strong if I decide to give an ultimatum to the Soviet Union to release the lands siezed during the war, if that happens having a real strong Puppet might be just what will be needed to assist in that event. When the aftermath of the entire war is done, borders then can be set to a more ideal situation.
    Ammerica and All the Troubles II AAR a Dies Irae: Stars and Stripes and FtML Comparison AAR
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post13667536

  7. #47
    Good point. Very well then

  8. #48
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    I am not sure How much more I can do on this AAR it is very discouraging when you have a Corps amout of Japanese units allowed to move through your lines without being attacked and get into supply and behind my lines where I do not have the units to take on those and the units they SRed from China. Its one thing if I did not have units In Siam "Blocking" their movement but apparently they can move though my units without a shot fired. I can only close the gap outside of Siam so quickly. This is bogus. Lesson learned...never puppet, always conquer.
    Ammerica and All the Troubles II AAR a Dies Irae: Stars and Stripes and FtML Comparison AAR
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post13667536

  9. #49
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    Just for you all to know I will probably continue this AAR in a few days. I have been doing a few experiments , one of them seeing how big of IC pool I could make and I easily could make a 475 IC BAse, I could even get higher, but at that point without recieving all my resources because it was still before August 1941, I figure I should stop there since I actually started to have to buy rares and such. But with this much base ICs, my Availiable IC wil be huge.
    Ammerica and All the Troubles II AAR a Dies Irae: Stars and Stripes and FtML Comparison AAR
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post13667536

  10. #50
    Just checking in, are there any plans to continue this AAR?

  11. #51
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    Chapter 21 - Conclusions:

    I tried several times to get back into the game only to play some and getting depressed at some of the things happening. I will explain what is going wrong and why I feel that I actually am satisfied with ending the AAR here. But more on that later. I wanted to give some more summaries and comparisons for you.

    New units -

    USMC Brigade

    First unit I want to compare is the USMC brigade vs Infantry. First off I wanted to compare 2 simular units in experience and medals at the last date I played upto in this AAR which is the 8th of September 1942. Here is datasheets for each and in the lower right corner I put in the production page information. Next time I will take them out of the units they are in so any type of leader benefit is removed. But since I didn't think about it till now I don't want to go through making the merged infosheets again.



    The obvious main concern is, is the difference in costs worth the unit. That is the question on my mind, would I recommend the unit. I think I would always build a few divisions with this unit
    since USA has alot of production, but I think I would limit it to one Corps. It is good for what it does, a unit made for invasions of heavily fortified coastal regions. But for any other use, is it really worth it? I keep looking at the cost of producing, almost twelve times the cost in IC days, 2 and a half times the officers, about twice the required supplies. As a comparison for costs in ICs, I could produce one division of 3 USMC Brigades for about the same IC/Days of a Carrier with its two CAGs. This is not including all the extra leadership needed to research it to the levels I have ahead of time. I haven't taken the time to determine the exact number of leadership point days I used, but it was alot. And for say about 12 brigades is it worth it? Only the player can decide that.

    For attacking the mainland targets I would have to say no. For attacking coastal or Islands with large forts and a large dug in force, it might be worth it. But most mainland targets can be attacked by surrounding after landing in locations with no or little defenses. So during Island hoping to Japan, they would help, but remember, that besides the Japanese Home Islands there are few VP zones on these Isalands, so if you can have allied bases to attack from why not attack from an allied and go up the asian coast and avoid the island hoping all together. The point I have is the AI is not smart enough to give the game enough challenge to worry about producing these very expensive specialized troops.

    PROs - Very High Organization - River, Amiphibious, Marsh and Jungle Bonuses - Lighter weight but slightly better overall combat values - No Fuel needed
    CONs - Very Expensive in terms of time and ICs - large Officer ratio - almost twice the supply needed compared to an Infantry - Large Tech Tree for Unit - To Get Best Stats, Researching Ahead is desired

    This will probably become a very large post as I slowly add to it all my words.
    Last edited by azedalis; 23-05-2012 at 15:47.
    Ammerica and All the Troubles II AAR a Dies Irae: Stars and Stripes and FtML Comparison AAR
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post13667536

  12. #52
    Please, keep this comparisons going...
    I'd also like to know how those 2MAR+3LVT perform

    Thanks!

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