Ottoman Empire AHD Tips

calvinhobbeslik · Apr 3, 2012

I've read this AAR: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?504398-Sick-Man-of-Europe-an-Ottoman-Empire-AAR

Is it still possible to conquer Europe with the new changes in AHD?

This is the first time I'll be playing a backwards civilised country, so I need some help on:

What techs to research first? Freedom of Trade as been nerfed and its effects distributed over multiple techs. I start the game lacking in every category, so which should I focus on?

What factories to build? In vanilla, cement used to be the best first factory, but now I'm not sure.

How to hold off Russia when they go to war with me. Is there anything to it besides being very careful about my army's generals, forts, organisation, etc.?

minificelle · Apr 3, 2012

I havent played the Ottos for a long time, so perhaps things have changed...

If you can survive the first half game, there shouldnt be any problem conquering Europe...

Try to ally Russia first day but even if they accept, dont trust her...Austria is a good ally too and is more prone to stay allied and help.
Stay low infamy, as you already know, you are just a little more advanced than uncivs, your litteracy is abysmal, last thing you want is unwanted wars.

Get your cores from Egypt fast, all in one go if possible, otherwise you will have hard time to get them without interference.
Be prepared as Russia will probably attack while you deal with Egypt...
High relation with Russia didnt seem to help a lot.

You will need a boost income tech, thats for sure, so freedom of trade or another, your choice, but you will need one fast, well fast for Ottos means some years...
The tactic land tech is high priority too, as, unless you are super lucky, Russia will attack you in the first decade and ask for Kars region...with probably 4 times as much armies than you and with better techs.

Keep your starting fleet (you can disband frigates), it was always key for me against Russia...you can control Black Sea, get some easy warscore by crushing their , blockade, and see some Russia land to predict where Russia armies go.

Be ready at all time when truce with Russia expire...

For factories, i build 2 or 3 (glass cement liquor wine...your choice) in Thrace and Izmir.

Try at all cost to stay GP, if you lose GP status and get sphered, that will totally ruin your economy and you will never recover.

All in all, a very interesting nation to play, great potential...but hard start

calvinhobbeslik · Apr 3, 2012

Well, if I want to conquer Europe, I'll eventually have to attack Austria, but I guess I can use them against Russia.

If I ally with Russia, it'll only be so that they won't attack me.

Polar Mongoose · Apr 3, 2012

I'm playing a Greece game at the moment, and maybe I was just unlucky but Russia never so much as touched the Ottomans (prior to AHD I would always see Russia go for Kars).

As minificelle says, cores from Egypt as soon as possible. The prestige from recovering your cores should help you keep your GP status for quiet a while. Depending on the warscore cost of cores I might try and take parts of Egypt itself as well. Tunisia is also a nice relatively highly populated state.

I'd be inclined to start of with idealogical thought, for the plurality and the extra national focus. The social though techs for education efficiency and the philosophy ones as they become available would be high priority. I don't think you are in immediate financial trouble, but freedom of trade and a few of the industrial techs especially mechanical production would be nice.

I wouldn't bother much with industrialisation too much to begin with, you can't really spare the research for the factory efficiency techs for quite a while, your pops are too illiterate to promote on their own, and now that terrain effects railways your Turkish culture provinces will be hard to develop infrastructure in.

calvinhobbeslik · Apr 3, 2012

Hmm, Russia is "very likely" to accept an alliance on Day 1, so I'll just sent offers to Russia, Austria, and maybe the UK.

I should be able to take Tripoli and everything up to Suez in the first few years. My goal is to expand into Central Asia(up to the Indian border, and all of the Arabian peninsula), into Africa(including all of North Africa, Egypt, and Ethiopia, which probably means fighting France and Spain), and into Europe(I'd like to take large chunks of every country except Russia and the UK, who are too large and tedious to fight for many states, and Sweden, who will require a naval invasion, which I'm not fond of).

The extra NF can actually be used now in AHD, since accepted cultures are counted and you only need 500k instead of 1 M people. But will I be able to balance my budget without Freedom of Trade without harming my people too much?

Raph · Apr 3, 2012

calvinhobbeslik said:
Hmm, Russia is "very likely" to accept an alliance on Day 1, so I'll just sent offers to Russia, Austria, and maybe the UK.

I should be able to take Tripoli and everything up to Suez in the first few years. My goal is to expand into Central Asia(up to the Indian border, and all of the Arabian peninsula), into Africa(including all of North Africa, Egypt, and Ethiopia, which probably means fighting France and Spain), and into Europe(I'd like to take large chunks of every country except Russia and the UK, who are too large and tedious to fight for many states, and Sweden, who will require a naval invasion, which I'm not fond of).

The extra NF can actually be used now in AHD, since accepted cultures are counted and you only need 500k instead of 1 M people. But will I be able to balance my budget without Freedom of Trade without harming my people too much?

Cut spending way back if you have to, in the long run you need all the RP production you can get, as soon as you can, which means Ideological Thought and then (if you don't get that before 1 of January 1839 which is unlikely) save up on RP and pick Idealism immediately on 1 of January 1840. After that, go for Freedom of Trade and then Mechanical production and you should be in the green. Go to trade and disable buying of artillery and clippers to cut back on navy maintenance without hurting your army, focus on keeping spending high on education and administration and NF for clergy in the largest states (crats secondary priority).

calvinhobbeslik · Apr 3, 2012

Raph said:
Cut spending way back if you have to, in the long run you need all the RP production you can get, as soon as you can, which means Ideological Thought and then (if you don't get that before 1 of January 1839 which is unlikely) save up on RP and pick Idealism immediately on 1 of January 1840. After that, go for Freedom of Trade and then Mechanical production and you should be in the green. Go to trade and disable buying of artillery and clippers to cut back on navy maintenance without hurting your army, focus on keeping spending high on education and administration and NF for clergy in the largest states (crats secondary priority).

Oh, what about artillery units? I'd like to build them since they can fire from behind infantry.

I can just disband my navy if it's getting too expensive; it won't really help me against anyone, given I have exactly 2 naval techs, so the only use I have for it is transporting troops.

Raph · Apr 3, 2012

calvinhobbeslik said:
Oh, what about artillery units? I'd like to build them since they can fire from behind infantry.

I can just disband my navy if it's getting too expensive; it won't really help me against anyone, given I have exactly 2 naval techs, so the only use I have for it is transporting troops.

You might have use for it against Egypt, but then again they often disband their navy. Otherwise, you could just disable clipper purchase but keep artillery automated. And you really should build lots of artillery units.

Polar Mongoose · Apr 3, 2012

Don't forget while fighting uncivs that with the nationalism and imperialism technology you can protectorate nations of up to 4 states in one go, saving yourself quite a bit of infamy.

calvinhobbeslik · Apr 3, 2012

Polar Mongoose said:
Don't forget while fighting uncivs that with the nationalism and imperialism technology you can protectorate nations of up to 4 states in one go, saving yourself quite a bit of infamy.

By the time I have Nationalism and Imperialism, I probably won't be worrying about infamy anymore...

But protectorating takes less time to justify, so that's a good thing.

minificelle · Apr 3, 2012

By the time I have Nationalism and Imperialism, I probably won't be worrying about infamy anymore...

Dont be so sure...
Ottos start as GP, but they not at all in the same league as other GPs.

They have like no tech, low population compared to other GPs, very low density states, so low amount of soldier pop actually able to support brigades, super low litteracy meaning you will always be behind in the tech race...

In any confrontation, any other GP will have at least 2 3 times more armies with way better tech.

One or 2 at a time is doable, they are AIs after all...but more...good luck with that. Thats not GB here

Ignore the infamy and watch them all take a piece from you with their stack of 10k crushing yours of 30k.

The very hard part with Ottos is expanding while not pissing too much other GPs until you are strong enough to do fine...And that take time, your research rate being so slow, around 40 50 years...

calvinhobbeslik · Apr 3, 2012

minificelle said:
Dont be so sure...
Ottos start as GP, but they not at all in the same league as other GPs.

They have like no tech, low population compared to other GPs, very low density states, so low amount of soldier pop actually able to support brigades, super low litteracy meaning you will always be behind in the tech race...

In any confrontation, any other GP will have at least 2 3 times more armies with way better tech.

One or 2 at a time is doable, they are AIs after all...but more...good luck with that. Thats not GB here

Ignore the infamy and watch them all take a piece from you with their stack of 10k crushing yours of 30k.

The very hard part with Ottos is expanding while not pissing too much other GPs until you are strong enough to do fine...And that take time, your research rate being so slow, around 40 50 years...

Well, my hope is that my alliances with Russia and (maybe) the UK will scare off containment wars. As China, when I had 100+ infamy, Spain, Italy, NGF, and the USA all offered me alliances(which they would not honour the day I accepted them), possibly seeking protection which would scare of other countries.

In fact, I was in Russia's sphere before westernising, so I was able to pass the infamy limit before westernising without consequences.

synyster31 · Apr 5, 2012

I found that taking all of your cores from Egypt & then taking Suez killed off all GP interest in Egypt. This helped, as in most games I see lots of GP/Egypt v OE in wars to regain various Egyptian territory. Plus then you're heading towards the future rubber/oil producing areas in Southern Egypt

And as Raph said, I try & keep my education spending maxed to boost my tech levels asap. Then I guess a lot of the alliances/wars comes down to luck & events happening elsewhere in Europe as to who will attack you or be vulnerable to an attack of your own. In one of my games i've seen Russia get beaten down, then fall to a revolt & have a woeful military score, so I took my chance & helped myself to some territory. Yes they mobilized but even with far more numbers the low level of org. & quality more than played into my favour. But thats a rare occurance I guess.

calvinhobbeslik · Apr 5, 2012

I'm wondering how I'm going to beat Austria, given that they'll have more troops and tech, and that Prussia and Austria never seem to fight in AHD.

Maggix · Apr 5, 2012

Beating Austria at the start is nearly impossible. They have about twice as many troops as you and their technology is a bit better. Start with Egyp, Ethiopia and the Magreb states before rushing into the heart of Europe.

calvinhobbeslik · Apr 5, 2012

Maggix said:
Beating Austria at the start is nearly impossible. They have about twice as many troops as you and their technology is a bit better. Start with Egyp, Ethiopia and the Magreb states before rushing into the heart of Europe.

So when would be a good time to attck them? I'd like to be able to attack Prussia, France, and Spain eventually...

Also, the Maghreb States will be sphered by France and Spain, so I need to get into Central Europe so I can attack them at home. I guess I could expand into Central Asia, though.

Maggix · Apr 5, 2012

You should first start creating a conquest Cb for Algeria while fighting Egypt. Tunis will usually agree to an alliance and thus help you against Algeria (5 brigades and a reasonable good general are usually enough to crush them). By allying with Morocco and sphering Portugal (which was the first thing I did) you might get the chance to fight Spain without their allies. Just take either their Pyrenean regions or make them a puppet.
Until 1860ish you should be able to eat up all of Egypt and Ethiopia. Then you might be able to fight Austria.

I myself attacked Austria around 1880 (or rather, got attacked by them after going beyong the infamy limit), and dug in the balkans.

Polar Mongoose · Apr 5, 2012

You could just pull the Maghreb states back out of France's sphere. Make sure you knock them down from friendly though so they can't intervene with status quo. I've seen Austria get into a few wars with Russia in my current Greece game, you might have a few opportunities there. Egypt,Ethiopia and Tunisia all have decent populations that will help level things with Austria.

minificelle · Apr 6, 2012

Well, Ottos and China are 2 very different countries.
China have like no money problem and huge amount of manpower...so can afford to war even losing 10 men for 1.
China can afford to be sphered without much consequences...In fact, being sphered China destroys her sphere leader s economy.

Thats not at all the case with Ottos...

Now, if you want to attack European countries (bloody warmonger

), i suggest Two Sicilies first, then Spain.
If you kept your starting fleet, thats more than enough to get the naval control, you will get some decent land with good manpower and decent litt.
Controlling Mediterranean Sea is obviously very important as Ottos, you cant afford direct land fight with strong countries for a long time.
You should be able to keep all GPs at bay with your fleet while getting lands all around the Med.

The only ones you have to take care would be Russia and Austria both having land connection with you, but both have low litt, so in the long run you should be able to outtech them.
Try to ally them or something, delaying the confrontation with them until you are strong enough.

calvinhobbeslik · Apr 6, 2012

minificelle said:
Well, Ottos and China are 2 very different countries.
China have like no money problem and huge amount of manpower...so can afford to war even losing 10 men for 1.
China can afford to be sphered without much consequences...In fact, being sphered China destroys her sphere leader s economy.

Thats not at all the case with Ottos...

Now, if you want to attack European countries (bloody warmonger ), i suggest Two Sicilies first, then Spain.
If you kept your starting fleet, thats more than enough to get the naval control, you will get some decent land with good manpower and decent litt.
Controlling Mediterranean Sea is obviously very important as Ottos, you cant afford direct land fight with strong countries for a long time.
You should be able to keep all GPs at bay with your fleet while getting lands all around the Med.

The only ones you have to take care would be Russia and Austria both having land connection with you, but both have low litt, so in the long run you should be able to outtech them.
Try to ally them or something, delaying the confrontation with them until you are strong enough.

Is it possible for me to balance the budget while keeping my fleet, 100% education spending, and decently high military spending to get more soldiers?

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