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Thread: Maneuver in Battle - What i saw when i fought a battle, with high maneuver leader.

  1. #1
    Banned Iwanow's Avatar
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    Maneuver in Battle - What i saw when i fought a battle, with high maneuver leader.



    EDIT : It is not like this statement was true so I edited it, to not make some people take it as truth for a mistake.
    Last edited by Iwanow; 03-04-2012 at 17:12.

  2. #2
    I'm not sure on this, but I thought that maneuver ratings for land battles primarily increases the army's moving speed (between provinces) as well as lowering attrition and terrain penalties. It is definitely important but arguably, not as important as the shock modifier in early game.

  3. #3
    Banned Iwanow's Avatar
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    Well sure thing is, that leader maneuver, allows you to use more units in battle, so if you get 5 maneuver leader, with 1 shock, and you fight with smaller army with better leader, you migh win the battle, despite the fact he might get higher damage in early stage of battle. So, if you got big armies, maneuver is quite good for battles. Also, maneuver is not dependant on battle stage(while cavalry does small damage in fire phase whatever), so in fire phase you also get the damage for flanking(only from infantry whatever, but it is still something).

    Only thing i am not sure is about cavalry infantry thing...

  4. #4
    Now I don't know much about the different factors, like Shock and Maneuver, do for armies(I just got the game back in January and loving every minute of it) but the enemy did not have a commander(while you had a superior one), was an inferior force numerically, was low on Morale, and was nowhere near reinforcements. That's what I call a no-lose scenario. Now of course that was based on what was on the screenshot. *Gets he's best "My Cousin Vinny" impression going* I sure that prior to this the enemy had a 15k stacker(with cheese) and it was an immense victory to get it down to what it was to and I commend you but based on the situtation in the screenshot, Georg Schultz could have been in command and you'd still have won.
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  5. #5
    Banned Iwanow's Avatar
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    Well true, but that's beside the point. I know i got uber general, and i got quite high tradition, but it is unimportant in this discussion/thread/topic. The point is that i got 6 units flanking the enemy, while having 6 maneuver general, and that it might be usefull for anyone that use army bigger than his enemy, to use high maneuver general - as units on flanks will flee faster, when more units will attack them, and so, it will decrease enemy units in the battle, and so might mean, winning the battle. Well i hope this info, will be helpfull for those who use big armies. And will make those who have smaller armies, even while having good shock general, avoid battles when outnumbered.

  6. #6
    I thought only a maximum of four cavalry units can flank at a time?

  7. #7
    Every discussion/calculation of battle stuff I've seen has said that up to 4 calvary can flank (2 per side). Maneuver doesn't have an effect, I think. Are you sure that your extra calvary are actually fighting? Because they could just be there in the battle lines but not participating (because you have open space there).

    I mean, if I outnumber the enemy 20:1 my entire front row will be filled and they may have only 1 or two units. That doesn't mean all my front row units are directly fighting.
    -Ruanek

  8. #8
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    Just because all of the units are stacked in the front line does not mean they are all attacking. Infantry can attack straight or one unit diagonally. Cavalry will always fill in the flanks and attacks straight or up to two units diagonally. Maneuver does not change this. Thus, if maneuver has any effect on battles, it is not in the sense you are stating.

  9. #9
    Banned Iwanow's Avatar
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    Well, best would be to ask the people who done this game. The devs. But it is not a single battle, i got same situation in other one. There is sad, that the number of units in battle can't exceed the number of enemy units +4. And yet it does, more to say it exceed it in certain number, and only one unit is on back. Rest are on front, so i assume they fight and deal damage. This can be tested - try yourselves. Also, the battle itself, was quite short, like few days and killed 12k XD... still it is worth to test it or ask the ones that made whole battle system.

    EDIT: Also, when units exceed the number of enemy troops, they withdraw to second row, like the one unit of infantry you should see. So i assumed all they fight.

  10. #10


    I have ~30k troops, no general. Notice how I have most of the front row filled up even though the enemy army has only three regiments. They could fit in the back row, but they aren't there.
    -Ruanek

  11. #11
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    Well then, then i am wrong i suppose. But i am not quite certain about it... and it is 30 regiments in battle for sure. Well best way to check how maneuver value change the battle, is to note the damage done, and make calculations, to check how much forces do damage.

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    Last edited by Iwanow; 03-04-2012 at 03:36.

  12. #12
    Whateverist Moderator AndrewT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanow View Post
    Do you know that in this forum, it does not matter how many times you hit the space, it always count as one space, if between the words?
    This text should consinst many free space between words, but forum change it so it does not.
    Use the #CODE tags to prevent this.
    Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death .... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man. Bertrand Russell

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanow View Post
    Well then, then i am wrong i suppose. But i am not quite certain about it... and it is 30 regiments in battle for sure. Well best way to check how maneuver value change the battle, is to note the damage done, and make calculations, to check how much forces do damage.
    Or we could just trust that the calculations done previously and the comments made by devs are correct?

    We already know maneuver doesn't affect anything during battles.
    Last edited by AndrewT; 03-04-2012 at 05:41.
    -Ruanek

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    Banned Iwanow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruanek View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanow View Post
    Well then, then i am wrong i suppose. But i am not quite certain about it... and it is 30 regiments in battle for sure. Well best way to check how maneuver value change the battle, is to note the damage done, and make calculations, to check how much forces do damage.
    Or we could just trust that the calculations done previously and the comments made by devs are correct?

    We already know maneuver doesn't affect anything during battles.
    Well then, i wonder why maneuver is not meaningfull in battle... it should be IMHO...
    Last edited by AndrewT; 03-04-2012 at 05:41.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanow View Post
    Well then, i wonder why maneuver is not meaningfull in battle... it should be IMHO...
    It would make sense. But the way EU3 represents battles I don't know if there's a good way for maneuver to do anything during an actual battle. As it is it's fairly important anyway, because it makes it a lot easier to defeat armies after they retreat.
    -Ruanek

  16. #16
    Banned Iwanow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruanek View Post
    It would make sense. But the way EU3 represents battles I don't know if there's a good way for maneuver to do anything during an actual battle. As it is it's fairly important anyway, because it makes it a lot easier to defeat armies after they retreat.
    And decrease atrition, don't forget...

  17. #17
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    I was of the opinion (and it matches what i've seen in game) that during an actual battle, maneuver allows +1 regiment per pip to move per turn (front to back line, back to front, move positions) representing the fact that the general can move his army around better than no general etc.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanow View Post
    Well, best would be to ask the people who done this game. The devs. But it is not a single battle, i got same situation in other one. There is sad, that the number of units in battle can't exceed the number of enemy units +4. And yet it does, more to say it exceed it in certain number, and only one unit is on back. Rest are on front, so i assume they fight and deal damage. This can be tested - try yourselves. Also, the battle itself, was quite short, like few days and killed 12k XD... still it is worth to test it or ask the ones that made whole battle system.

    EDIT: Also, when units exceed the number of enemy troops, they withdraw to second row, like the one unit of infantry you should see. So i assumed all they fight.
    Actually, the maximum number of units you can have participating in battle against an enemy with N units is N*2 +8; N units infront facing the enemy army, N units behind them to either give half their pip's to the frontline or as cannons and 4 on each side flanking with another 4 behind them providing pip bonuses. Thus N*2 +8 Also manuver does affect combat in two ways as far as I know; higher manuver generals will place their armies in more optimal formations at the start of battle and it will be able to move more units around each day to fill in holes etc in the frontline.

  19. #19
    Banned Iwanow's Avatar
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    Well then, it helps to know this.

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