"Victis Honor" — Wednesdays, 19:00 CET

[Histaxin]

Dude, 2 weeks are more than enough for it.

And i've learned there are two types of pre-game diplomacy, the one that is absolutely necessary to do early to survive and should be made ASAP (Burgundy comes to mind), and the one that can wait since it's not really deadly and no one can beat you to it (Venice and OE ). True, i've never played the former (except PI maybe, but i've learned from my mistakes) but in the other cases i've survived with diplomacy right on the day of the game or something.

In either case, it doesn't take days to make a deal.

That you havent played/seen venice in a serious game yet shows now. If you disregard diplomacy as venice against an OE, your equally as dead compared with the France/burgundy situation. OE usually is stronger than venice for the first 50-75 years depending on the skill of the respective players since OE has a lot more provs to build ships from.

That it doesnt take days to make deals is complete BS. Especially in higher level games people do not immediately agree to terms during the first talks, but may wish to talk to other players to broaden their options.

An example is the poland/muscowy Situation. If poland so desires, he can/should kill muscowy/novgorod during the first session at all costs to avoid being on the recieving side later on. Muscowy now e.g. contacts OE which may take 1-2 days and offers him a generous deal to ensure his survival. OE decides to think about it and contacts Poland to see if Poland gives OE a counteroffer, which takes another 1-2 days etc..

The nationlist was put up on Saturday evening, which means 4 days to make deals. And especially since its the easter holidays, people usually have other things on their mind than having to do diplo.

Besides, your not even in this game, so personally id say that its none of your business when it starts. But feel free to join as e.g. switz.

[elfposer]

Hi Bixit. I feel a bit honoured that you think that i can handle Poland, on the other hand why do i always get my last country choice? I am confident that i won`t do the kapsteinsabel and ruin my country in the first 20 mins of the game, but that doesn`t mean i will lead poland to glory. Furthermore i wont be able to play the first session as i have to travel to cologne for my mothers birthday. So maybe it would be better to put alfonso or any other more expierenced player on the polish throne. Because our last game suffered from having a vacuum in that area, after kapsteinsabel let poland explode in a civil war. So if you find a better player for poland i would have no problems to change my country to Delhi where a failure wouldn`t hurt the game that much.

[Bixit]

Home now, the reason I set the 18th as startdate was because I have been on vacation the last week and only been online a couple of times for a short period each time. I wan't to be able to take a more in-depth look at the rules and nationlist before starting the game, and changing stuff like that one day before gamestart is bad. I knew that I probably wouldn't set the start date to the 18th when I created this thread and I considered waiting one week before creating it, but I saw no reason not to just do it immeadiatly. The startdate will be the 18th, and that is final.

elfposer: I rarely consider the players nation-lists to be in order of preferance, Poland is fine and it shouldn't leave a power-gap if it disappears if there is a OE/BB/Austria and Russia. I would prefer not to have any players in Asia, and if I am to place someone there, I would prio Japan. Being there for the first session is quite important for someone in Poland though, to deal with the hordes and the pu... So idk, either find a sub or another perm for Poland and move you to Delhi or preferably a european minor?

[Lama43]

That you havent played/seen venice in a serious game yet shows now. If you disregard diplomacy as venice against an OE, your equally as dead compared with the France/burgundy situation. OE usually is stronger than venice for the first 50-75 years depending on the skill of the respective players since OE has a lot more provs to build ships from.

That it doesnt take days to make deals is complete BS. Especially in higher level games people do not immediately agree to terms during the first talks, but may wish to talk to other players to broaden their options.

An example is the poland/muscowy Situation. If poland so desires, he can/should kill muscowy/novgorod during the first session at all costs to avoid being on the recieving side later on. Muscowy now e.g. contacts OE which may take 1-2 days and offers him a generous deal to ensure his survival. OE decides to think about it and contacts Poland to see if Poland gives OE a counteroffer, which takes another 1-2 days etc..

The nationlist was put up on Saturday evening, which means 4 days to make deals. And especially since its the easter holidays, people usually have other things on their mind than having to do diplo.

Besides, your not even in this game, so personally id say that its none of your business when it starts. But feel free to join as e.g. switz.

I didn't say that you shouldn't make deals with Venice, and for the record, i played it briefly so i know what i'm talking about. All i was saying is that you can approach the OE with a deal in the chat before the start of the game. It doesn't make any difference, no one else is involved.

Regarding the deals with multiple people i admit you're right, it may take days. But not 2 weeks and i believe many nations picks were already clear before the final roster was posted.
I would gladly join this game as a perm but unfortunately i can make it only at 20:00, i still care about when it starts.

You think i don't know what diplomacy is, but i've learned it. I'm not saying that i'm a pro as i still have to play in a seriously competitive environment and "test" myself, but don't think that you know things completely obscure to me.

[stnikolauswagne]

Well, as to nations beeing clear from the start: Both France and Austria where not clear until saturday evening and with the precarious situation in their respective regions (BB/Hansa/Poland + Burgundy/Holland) 4 Days are hardly enough. For example I (Austria) have yet to hear from Milan, BB and have not at all finalized deals with Poland and Hansa, so if we would start tommorow there is lots of stuff that is unclear, which might make for an interesting though not neccesarily fun game.

[elfposer]

Well the Milan player is in Bukarest for holidays i guess, but doent worry i dont think that the idea of his trip is to plot a Hungary - Milan alliance against Austria.

[Serzis]

Well the Milan player is in Bukarest for holidays i guess, but doent worry i dont think that the idea of his trip is to plot a Hungary - Milan alliance against Austria.

Ehm, elfposer, don't know if you are joking or if you don't know that Bucharest is in Romania -- which one?

Anyways, I think you would do just fine as Poland, as long as you play offensively and not just defensively in the first few sessions. Russian expansion might be slowed, BB ambitious but reasonable, Austria surely preoccupied, Ottomans limited by the Mamluks and I -- Sweden -- well, I will be too busy in the North. PU Hungery and we will have a fierce Empire in Eastern Europe. Or just chill with Lithuanian armies serving as protection.

[Lealo]

"Janlm has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space"

[elfposer]

Ehm, elfposer, don't know if you are joking or if you don't know that Bucharest is in Romania -- which one?

Anyways, I think you would do just fine as Poland, as long as you play offensively and not just defensively in the first few sessions. Russian expansion might be slowed, BB ambitious but reasonable, Austria surely preoccupied, Ottomans limited by the Mamluks and I -- Sweden -- well, I will be too busy in the North. PU Hungery and we will have a fierce Empire in Eastern Europe. Or just chill with Lithuanian armies serving as protection.

Well i always mix up Bukarest and Budapest. Anyways the milan player wont be back from Hungary until the weekend so don`t wonder if he doesn`t answer his pms. The main problem i had at the last game was that i sucked hard at ingame diplomacy. When things went bloody i lost control of reading the chat or negotiate with other countrys for help. So i would have prefered to have a country more periphery then in the middle pf the action. But if there comes no more expierenced player who wants poland i will give my best. And we will see, as i am new to multiplayer in eu3 it wouldn`t hurt my pride if all goes down the river. But who knows maybe i will rule the east and plunder europe

[Mad Professor]

anyone wants to save our day by subbing poland in our campaign? divine wind, 1523

[Histaxin]

Ip?

[Mad Professor]

....

add me on skype: yngvex

[Serzis]

Bixit, Elcyion asked, but suppose it can be asked again. Will we use 5.1 or the beta patch?

Personally, I see no problem using the new one.

[Iceni]

Bixit, Elcyion asked, but suppose it can be asked again. Will we use 5.1 or the beta patch?

Personally, I see no problem using the new one.

I do, as long as it does not run stable. We tried the fixed beta patch a couple of weeks back and it was a catastrophe. Not 1 minute ingame without oos, multiple mass-oos on start and stuff... It totally kills the gaming experience

[Uokko]

Do you have room for one more player? If so I would like to join.

Here is my list:
-Makassar
-Majapahit
-Brunei
-Mutapa
-Inca

or choose another country for me

[Alfonso V]

no beta, if the patch comes out officially we use it, otherwise not

[stnikolauswagne]

Also nobody knows how the changes to CC's will affect late game MP, it could very well be that for example the dynamic between France and Austria is totally obliterated because of it, so I'd vote for waiting for the official patch.

[Bixit]

As Alfonso says, it's a beta, this is not a beta-testing game, so we will not use it before it is an official patch.

[Bixit]

Added Uokko as Brittany

[Lama43]

Also nobody knows how the changes to CC's will affect late game MP, it could very well be that for example the dynamic between France and Austria is totally obliterated because of it, so I'd vote for waiting for the official patch.

France and Austria are fine, its the other countries that don't start with much MP that have problems.