So Confused!!!! Trading in Victoria 2

[Jacob1234]

Hi:
So this is the first time I played this type of game. I am playing Victoria II not AHD I have to say it is very addicting and challenging at the same time. I have spent a lot of time trying to understand the game concepts and I have been reading these forms so I have a decent grasp of the game. That stated, I am very confused on how to set manual trades...Let me give you an example.
I am playing The Netherlands, just took over Belgium and a factory in their country was producing Fabric and thus needs cotton. Currently, my country/colonies are not producing cotton so I am in the process of creating spheres of influence to go after this cotton. I currently have a few small countries in my sphere of influence. My question, cotton is not coming into my factory, I need 7.2/day for my factory and 0 for my POPs, so I check off automatic, set the maximum stockpile slider to buy at like 500, and the computer keeps buying until it hits 1.7-2.1 thousand… why does it do that??? Shouldn’t it stop at 500???
Then when I release my stockpile to the common market (or allow my POPs to buy in the national stockpile) it leaves at like -50.1 units per day…to the common market. Why are 50 units of cotton leaving per day? Shouldn’t only 7.2 be leaving per day? Is it my artisans? They need like 40/day I do not have a large navy so I don’t see a ton of maintenance taking away cotton/fabric. None of my other industries are using cotton. Could it be the other countries in my sphere of influence taking up my cotton? If so, how do I check what other countries in my sphere need and are using out of my stockpile? My tariffs are at 25%
So several questions...thanks in advance

[calvinhobbeslik]

I'm certainly not an expert on trade, but my first guesses are these:
1. You buy 500 a day, but you keep stockpiling it until it reaches 1.7-2.1 k, since your gov't/pops don't use it fast enough
2. The extra sold cotton is being sold on the common market to other countries(not necessarily in your sphere)

[Jacob1234]

Ahh so its 500 a day ohhh okay but why stop at 2.1K why not keep buying off the world market until I go broke? So weird???

Also, I thought the common market was the internal market, if not where is the internal market? Is the common market the world market? I thought goods went to national stockpile if you buy them, then if you release them they go to the common market?

Am I wrong?

Thanks

[minificelle]

You probably did a mistake or did it at high speed or with autotrade on while moving slider.

I advise you to always deal with the trade stuff with game paused.

If you set trade to manual and set buying to 500, you will only buy 500.
Providing there is enough available, with stockpile slider set at 100%, you will buy the 500 in one go.
With stockpile slider at 20%, you will buy 100 a day (20%) up to 500.

Now, stockpile shouldnt be used to provide materials for your industries.
Stockpile is your (the government) stock, industry/pop need are, well...private...
Mostly, stockpile should be used to store military and some industrial/raw material goods...check what are the government needs and only store those...That allows you to build armies, ships, railroads, factories faster if you have the needed stuff stored.

Sure, you can buy stuff, stockpile it and allow your pop to buy from your stockpile...doesnt really serve any purpose as your pop could just as well buy what they need themselves...if your country has enough prestige to buy, then your pop has the same prestige.
Can eventually help in case of a shortage but 2000 units (the max) will go so fast its not really worth it.

If you set to sell stuff from stockpile, you will try to sell the max amount possible everyday, not only what your pop need...remember, you are the ruler, your pop are your pop...different entities; thats what differenciate Victoria from most other sim games where you are some sort of god that is both the ruler and the populace.

Internal market is your market when you are not in any sphere.
If you are in a sphere...as GP you no more have internal market, its all common market...as secondary you keep 50% internal, rest is common...as civ, only 25% as internal...as unciv, nothing.

And, yeah, this trade window is quite confusing, and, in my opinion really need an overhaul...

[Jacob1234]

This helps thank you.
When you say sell from stockpile you mean clicking the box and allowing the pops to use the stockpile, right? Not doing a manual trade and selling

As far as private industry, when I conquered Belgium I was stuck with a cloth factory so I needed to buy cotton because the factory kept running out. I then went out and made sphere's of influence with persia, egypt ect...to obtain the cotton so my pops could buy...what do you think of this strategy? It is as if I was subsidising cloth factory...

Thoughts?

[minificelle]

Nope, when i was saying selling, i refered to direct sell, aka selling the stored stuff to the whole world.

Yep, sphering/conquering countries that provide what your pop/industries need is a good (winning) strat.
That let your pop/ind get first shot at whatever they need (without having to fight with the whole world pop to buy from WM), but they still have to pay for their need...no money...no stuff.

And no, it isnt as if you subsidized...pop from sphered/conquered countries are individuals, just like the pop from your country...they work for themselves (and a little bit for you via taxes/tariffs).
If your industries/pop need something from them, they have to buy it.

Think about all of your pop/ind as egocentric entities...they work all for themselves and themselves only...
Cotton producers cant care less if a factory need cotton but cant pay for it...
They will try to sell cotton to internal/common market first, but if people from internal/common dont buy (lack of money or no need), they will sell to WM.

Now, the fabric factory you get via conquest was probably closed (due to occupation) and broke (so no money to buy stuff needed to start business).
You can subsidize it some monthes to help and see how it works...
If after some monthes, its still in the red...let it die, or continue to pay for it, your choice here (me let die, i cant care less about unprofitable factories).

[Jacob1234]

Ok very helpful... thank you!! wow what a fabulous game...so different...I keep wanting to control my production when in fact I can only guide it...not control it...unles I am a state run economy and even then its not like your regular simulation game...
So let me ask this question...Lets say I have tarrifs at 50-75%...I buy cotton(assuming I don't have it in my spheres or colonies/country) off the world market...stick it in my national stockpile, then release my stockpile to my POPs to buy in the common/internal market. The POPs (artisans and factories) will most likely buy from my national stockpile first to avoid paying the tarrif, correct? Or do the POPs pay the tarrif?
Thanks for your help.

Also, how do you feel about National Focus? Does it really work? I feel like it takes FOREVER like 10-20 years to complete any task you set it to do....

[Animosity]

Also, how do you feel about National Focus? Does it really work? I feel like it takes FOREVER like 10-20 years to complete any task you set it to do....

NF is amazingly powerful. I assume by your comment you are using NF to say "focus on X industry". This will not work very well. Captialist will only build a Factory if there is need for a factory. As in, if there is no original factory, or the first one is almost full and nothing else is being built in that State. Perhaps that's why you feel no progress from NF. Only set it when you get a 'feel' that capitalists will soon be building a factory in that state, or it is empty. ( my 'feeling' is usually when the factory looks about 66% full. Then I will encourage say, shipping industry. If the capitialists build a Clipper shipyard and I wanted a Steamer, I delete the clipper if I am allowed to and let them build something else again ).

Elsewise, use NF to increase Clergymen up to at least 2% for research. I think this should be a priority for you very early in the game. You will see that when you set the focus that Clergy will grow much faster than without it.
Other options for you, depending on your situation, may be to increase soldiers or beauracrats.

It is very powerful to use NF to promote pops into what you need.

As for the tarriffs question, I'm not sure if buying from the stockpile avoids tariffs. But what I can tell you is that if your factory cannot afford inputs, then you need to turn your tariffs down.

If I am subsidizing I will turn tariffs up high. If I am not subsidizing, I will keep them as low as possible.

[minificelle]

About tariffs and stockpile, im not sure...probably, they wont pay tariffs buying from stockpile (sound logical).

Now, i see you really want to use stockpile to provide stuff for your pop and ind...You shouldnt...
In fact, by buying and stocking cotton, you compete with your own industries that try to buy cotton.
If you can buy from WM, that means there is some available in WM...let the pop buy what they need themselves...

About tariffs, take care...they bring lot of cash, that sounds great...but they suck a lot of money from your pop, broking them hard in the long run.
And when pop are broken, they cant pay for anything, even basic stuff...lot of problem ahead
Plus, they kill industries/artisans relying on import to make their products.
If you really need money, always prefer high taxes over high tariffs...my advice.

I always try to play at lower possible tariffs (0-10% at max, sometimes negative to help starting industrializing), 50%+ is very damaging in the long run...its oki for short term.

And like already said, NFs are pretty powerfull, well, the ones that boost some specific pop...Bureaucrats-clergy-capis-soldiers-craftsmen-clerks...those are all highly usefull NFs depending on the situation.

[Jacob1234]

Great stuff thanks!

How do you feel about using NF to import people to your colonizes to build as states?

[minificelle]

Well, transforming a colony into a state is pretty hard now....That was changed in a patch to avoid things like Africa/India being the industrial heart of the world
Very high population colonies (1+ million inhabitants) are very hard to get into a state.

You surely have noticed that NFing crats in a colony build up non national crats...those serve pretty much no purpose but are unavoidable.

You need at least 1 dude of your culture in the colony, no matter his job, then you can NFs crats...to make this dude come, either you wait or you can NF farmers/laborers for some times...some from your culture will come...Now, NF crats to have your culture guys go crat...As soon as this process is started, its only a matter of time now.
It will be long as the national and non national ones will compete and you will end up with high % of crats like 5-10%+.
Some colonies will have some of your national crats from scratch too (mystery here, i dont know how and they always the same from game to game). For those, the process is even faster...

My advice is to start with low populated colonies first as the process is somewhat fast and go up the list to the more populated ones...
Dont bother with very high populated areas, those are too long and 10% crats in a 2 millions inhabitants province cost a lot of money...This population will make good soldiers