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Thread: Can this (SOTS2) be considered a complete game?

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    Sergeant ComteDartois's Avatar
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    Can this (SOTS2) be considered a complete game?

    So could someone tell me, could this be considered a complete game yet? Im not too fussed about stability or a couple of bugs here and there but is there anything game breaking or features that still havent been fully implemented? I loved SOTS1 and reckon I could enjoy this and forget a few technical difficulties but Im not going to spend money on a half completed game. Cheers
    Last edited by 2Coats; 25-03-2012 at 22:23. Reason: not a complaint about game, moved to new thread so people can see request for help.
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    Colonel GShock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComteDartois View Post
    So could someone tell me, could this be considered a complete game yet? Im not too fussed about stability or a couple of bugs here and there but is there anything game breaking or features that still havent been fully implemented? I loved SOTS1 and reckon I could enjoy this and forget a few technical difficulties but Im not going to spend money on a half completed game. Cheers
    Not yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GShock View Post
    Not yet.
    +1

    After playing days with SOTS1 complete, and spending the 75% price (about 5 bucks) on SOTS2, I feel ripped off.
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  4. #4
    what went wrong?
    I resent any "science" which tells me I can't have my cake and eat it. I am however a huge fan of quantum physics.

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  5. #5
    The early game (first 50 turns or so depending on map) are pretty much complete. Surveying and colonizing worlds is pretty good, setting up trade while researching and designing ships also works.

    Around the mid game point where you'd usually be sorting out your affiliation with factions and planning who is going to feel your wrath is probably where you will start to notice problems as there is no real interaction with other factions at the moment. It's either peace or war and it will only be war if you shoot first. There is also none of the chatter from other factions that you usually get in SotS.

    Late game you will definately find things that aren't quite working yet. Slow downs in turn time is also likely (on larger maps this will happen sooner in the game) and the game just becomes a bit boring as you can slowly slug you way through and defeat everyone as they AI really doesn't put up much of a fight.

  6. #6
    Lt. General Jorgen_CAB's Avatar
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    No, there are still features missing and lots of optimization to be done, not to mention lots of AI issues to sort out. I agree that the first 50-100 turns is OK to play and basically learn the game for now. It will (in my opinion) take about three to four month before I would consider it really playable, which is all features there, AI and game balance sorted out.

    The main features that are not in at the moment are Espionage, Retrofit and Government. But in reality several features that is in the game is also incomplete such as Trade, Diplomacy and Economy... mainly because big parts of them is depending on those elements that are not in. This in turn make the AI behave like a complete idiot at times.

    Some people do say that they have put in hundreds upon hundreds of hours and enjoy the game, I don't doubt these people at all. Personally I have probably played the game about 50-75 hours or so and every game has ended in frustration for one reason or another.

    With that said I still come back and want to test out what's new with every major patch, because I do like the game even if I get frustrated all the time. I also don't accept that the game was released in the state it was but I will wait and play it for real when its done anyway. Unfortunately there are not that many companies who make these kinds of games so I really don't have much choice in the matter, or do I?!?

    I have found two other interesting games that could potentially contend with SotS, one of them are going to be release relatively soon which is called Legends of Pegasus, you should really check it out... especially if you were disappointed with this one or if you just want another similar game. I would probably want both anyway.
    Another game that is in Alpha at the moment is Endless Space, another interesting game similarly to SotS 2.

    So, in the end, there might be contenders out there... and if there is then Kerberos might have to clean up their act and at least release a feature complete game in the future.

    If Kerberos fix SotS 2 to a complete and polished state and then release an expansion, I will certainly by the expansion... I still think the game is (will be) that good.
    Last edited by Jorgen_CAB; 26-03-2012 at 01:35.

  7. #7
    don't forget that race leaders don't have names yet; nor when admirals retire do the name of the admiral show up besides a null set.

    lots of work to be done; but still fun to play. the AI has been improving their weaponry; i am in 3 player game around turn 140; around turn 110-120 i've noticed improvements in their weaponry; after i was kicking them out of systems...

    still things to figure out in the game for me.

  8. #8
    the only funny thing for me was to get rid of 3 locust swarms in my territory, i got them with lots of leviathans.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jos de trol View Post
    what went wrong?
    The basic mechanics are there for early game - but it is a "dead" universe with few if any of the advanced or late game features implemented.
    Some people seem to be enjoying it, but given it is now 4/5 months old I doubt it will get much better.

    They had 6 weeks max to fix it as far as possibly turning it into a long term critical (and maybe commercial) success. But that window is long gone. Retailers and online stores now see it as an "old game" it's been bargain bin for ages. Local stores (Game) has it for £1.99 (under $3) I don't think I've ever seen a game so cheap, even "Nancy Drew's Clock Mystery" (from 2007) and "Teach Your 3 Year Old Shapes" (which is that old it doesn't run on Vista or 7) are more expensive than that
    This isn't about "first opinions" any more. The game is now well established. It will never get "top shelf" space again, and it's still rather poor. It's not a disaster - but it's not a patch on the original.

    If I was the devs I would do what Stardock did E:WOM and announce a sequel that will be free to those with a registered copy of the original.
    SoTS2 has got a messed up reputation that no amount of late polish will adequately remove. A new name/franchise might be given the benefit by those who did not buy Sots2 and stand a chance of commercial success.

    If you aren't enjoying it now as a player, I'd give it up and move on to something else - I think after all these months - the devs should set a time limit of another 6-8 weeks say, and do the same themselves.

    I don't see much point in "polishing a t*&d" any more. The features that are missing make this game a budget title at best.

  10. #10
    M.I.A 2Coats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen_CAB View Post
    I have found two other interesting games that could potentially contend with SotS, one of them are going to be release relatively soon which is called Legends of Pegasus, you should really check it out... especially if you were disappointed with this one or if you just want another similar game. I would probably want both anyway.
    Another game that is in Alpha at the moment is Endless Space, another interesting game similarly to SotS 2.

    So, in the end, there might be contenders out there... and if there is then Kerberos might have to clean up their act and at least release a feature complete game in the future.

    If Kerberos fix SotS 2 to a complete and polished state and then release an expansion, I will certainly by the expansion... I still think the game is (will be) that good.
    Endless space looks pretty neat. Id prefer that over LoP. Ill look to get demos of both. Thx for the heads up.
    I think were all hoping for complete feature inclusion and expansions in the future. At least I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by scritty View Post
    If you aren't enjoying it now as a player, I'd give it up and move on to something else - I think after all these months - the devs should set a time limit of another 6-8 weeks say, and do the same themselves.

    I don't see much point in "polishing a t*&d" any more. The features that are missing make this game a budget title at best.
    Well Im enjoying the early part of the gameplay. Hopefully the devs wont give up and continue to add to what they have until its complete. I certainly hope the devs dont set themselves a time limit and that they continue to polish the game.

    I have to agree with "others" on the forum that if they made the interface and game engine calculation phase faster, it would certainly make the game that much more playable, than what it currently is.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 2Coats View Post
    Well Im enjoying the early part of the gameplay. Hopefully the devs wont give up and continue to add to what they have until its complete. I certainly hope the devs dont set themselves a time limit and that they continue to polish the game.

    I have to agree with "others" on the forum that if they made the interface and game engine calculation phase faster, it would certainly make the game that much more playable, than what it currently is.
    I hope they won't give up as well, but what is in it for them?
    They need to earn money I'd have thought, and I doubt there is much left to wring out of SOTS2 - the damage has been done rep wise and if it's selling for $3 in stores, how much are the devs getting for that?
    How long will they work on a game that's brining them in virtually zero cash? Cause I simply won't believe that this game is making them more than a pittance month on month in 2012.

    Our lust for gamplay would have to be the developers "charity" work this many months after the disaster of a release.

    Scritty

  12. #12
    M.I.A 2Coats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scritty View Post
    I hope they won't give up as well, but what is in it for them?
    They need to earn money I'd have thought, and I doubt there is much left to wring out of SOTS2 - the damage has been done rep wise and if it's selling for $3 in stores, how much are the devs getting for that?
    How long will they work on a game that's brining them in virtually zero cash? Cause I simply won't believe that this game is making them more than a pittance month on month in 2012.

    Our lust for gamplay would have to be the developers "charity" work this many months after the disaster of a release.

    Scritty
    Some good questions. Answer for none of which we know for sure. We can either be negative and assume the worst, positive and over-optimistic or we can walk the path between, be patient and see what the future rolls...

    Afterall it costs us nothing more to do so.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by scritty View Post
    If I was the devs I would do what Stardock did E:WOM and announce a sequel that will be free to those with a registered copy of the original.
    SoTS2 has got a messed up reputation that no amount of late polish will adequately remove. A new name/franchise might be given the benefit by those who did not buy Sots2 and stand a chance of commercial success.
    Yeah, but how well will that go over with the guys owing SOTS2 copies now? We did not want game X or we'd have bought it, we wanted SOTS2 - and we wanted that SOTS2 that was promised us by the previews (well, previews back then). ;/

    In Case of E:WOM you got exactly what they promised. That it was essentially a bad game was by design and was only noticed so after it was *done*, a game idea simply turned out to be a dud, it can happen. In SOTS2 case, the matter is rather different, they never had finished SOTS2 when it released, as we can see now there was at least 9 months of developing time missing. What would make us believe that Kerberos could actually finish the "next" follow up game properly this time?

    I mean, there was also Fort Zombie, Sots 2 is like the last straw (at least, for me)

    But yes, I think this can't go on forever. We'll have to see how many corners are cut and holes unpatched when kerberos calls it a day, whenever that day comes.

    You gotta see it this way. Games like these are a labor of love. What kind of labor is it for Kerberos now though? They are not really making the game they want to sell at some point, the game to be proud about, they are making the game they sold us 6 months ago, the game that has one of the lowest meta-critic user scores in the entire history of meta-critic, and equally bad review scores. I have a hard time believing that is good for work moral. Even if they make it PERFECT now it will never be seen as such, certainly not by the reviews who reviewed 6 months ago on release day (when every game *should* be reviewed)

    Are they forcing themselves to finish the game? Are they still, I mean really, behind the game? Or is this ... just forced labor?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by scritty View Post
    The basic mechanics are there for early game - but it is a "dead" universe with few if any of the advanced or late game features implemented.
    Some people seem to be enjoying it, but given it is now 4/5 months old I doubt it will get much better.

    They had 6 weeks max to fix it as far as possibly turning it into a long term critical (and maybe commercial) success. But that window is long gone. Retailers and online stores now see it as an "old game" it's been bargain bin for ages. Local stores (Game) has it for £1.99 (under $3) I don't think I've ever seen a game so cheap, even "Nancy Drew's Clock Mystery" (from 2007) and "Teach Your 3 Year Old Shapes" (which is that old it doesn't run on Vista or 7) are more expensive than that
    This isn't about "first opinions" any more. The game is now well established. It will never get "top shelf" space again, and it's still rather poor. It's not a disaster - but it's not a patch on the original.

    If I was the devs I would do what Stardock did E:WOM and announce a sequel that will be free to those with a registered copy of the original.
    SoTS2 has got a messed up reputation that no amount of late polish will adequately remove. A new name/franchise might be given the benefit by those who did not buy Sots2 and stand a chance of commercial success.

    If you aren't enjoying it now as a player, I'd give it up and move on to something else - I think after all these months - the devs should set a time limit of another 6-8 weeks say, and do the same themselves.

    I don't see much point in "polishing a t*&d" any more. The features that are missing make this game a budget title at best.
    You do realize that the game is one-two patches away ffrom feature complete and probably a couple of week after that from being "all cleared" don't you?

    And not to rain on your doom and gloom but the features that are missing currently are far from game breaking, the main problem of the current build is the long processing times experienced by some player (I actually experience nearly instant switching... Go figure) some reports put it somewhere between five seconds to three million years :/, what ever it is, you won't see Kerberos dropping the game and walking away, if anyone bother to head over to their forums it will be instantly apparent.

    To answer the OP, the game isn't complete yet check again in a month (although the patch next week should put all the features back but it will be a good idea to give them a time for several rounds of optimization)

    Warder

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    War Plan Orange Member aphrochine's Avatar
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    I bought the game full price the day it came out. I installed it, played a bit and it didnt feel right. Hit up the forums a couple days later and witnessed the firestorm of refunds and QQ'ing and everything else. Disguested, not with the developers but the trolls on the forum, I uninstalled the game and settled for the increasingly more common PRPP (post release patch period). Common place not just with paradox, but this is becoming a major trend in the gaming world where games are just getting extremely complex and more difficult to develop and devs simply cannot meet deadlines. Publishers and investors just are not willing it seems to allow for extended development periods to get the game right. Very few houses have the clout to demand the time it takes to get the quality that I think all houses want, but simply don't have the resources to achieve pre-release. Blizzard is the one example of houses with the ability to put out extremely stable and well designed titles. Their games are more stable going into beta than most titles are post release & patches. But again, not everyone has their resources.

    I'm a little frustrated that features that are in the manual are not at the least present in the game. I find this borderline fraudulent. If Kerebos was a car maker, there would be an attorney general looking to promote their career with this one.

    Besides all of this, I'm like you guys. I'm hoping for the best. The game has a create core, a great engine and what appears to be a talented team of under resourced individuals. I would pay for expansion if the current patching effort demonstrates a capability to implement a game vision with the current content.

    But I'm still rubbed the game was released in what felt like a pre-alpha and there is no explanation that is acceptable as to this condition. What I think happened??? The Devs ran out of money and had to publish, we can split hairs on the details...but that's the long and short of it.
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  16. #16
    What went wrong is they got overly ambitious, turned a fairly un-complicated game (sots1) into a much more convoluted and complicated game with better graphics (sots2)

    Yes it looks pretty but is in no way near the easy to use Sots1 plus expansions. Add to that they released way too early when it really needed another year of development.

  17. #17
    Major AdAstra's Avatar
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    I still have not played this game past turn 5 heh, gonna wait another 6 months if something useful will be done with this "Product"
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  18. #18
    Colonel GShock's Avatar
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    I don't think it's going to really sort out before 1.1.
    I get between 15 and 20 seconds of turn processing time 5 months after the release. Says it all... make it 1 year... if we're lucky.

  19. #19
    Paul Bäumer's gravedigger Becephalus's Avatar
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    It won't be ready until afte rthe first expansion and if there is no first expansion then it will never be ready. That is the sad truth. Such a huge failure of project management. I wish all the people defending Kerberos tooth and nail in the week after release were still around. I would love to see them defend them now.
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  20. #20
    You can spot them sometimes.
    Also visit Kerberos forum there are still plenty of them.
    Some people just cant admit that they were wrong.
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