APD 2.1.0 download/feedback

[Rylock]

Well, here's the thing - I now have it taking military reforms, but ignoring economic ones. Seems to be something to do with the % modifiers; the AI seems loathe to select any reform which costs more than 100%.

I'm not sure I understand-- how are reform costs adjusted by percentage? That's not in the issues file. Is it adjusted elsewhere?

[Naselus]

I'm not sure I understand-- how are reform costs adjusted by percentage? That's not in the issues file. Is it adjusted elsewhere?

It's in defines.lua, and also by the tech schools. Essentially, the more Reactionary your UH, the more Economic reforms cost, and the more liberal your UH, the more Military reforms cost. The values are set at -0.4 in vanilla AHD; I removed them entirely for 2.1.0. But by setting both values to -0.2, military reforms suddenly became much more viable and the AI was picking them up and ignoring the economic ones.

[Naselus]

Well, I checked the thing a few times because I needed jingo badly and the equilibrium was around 30%-40% WE.
Probably due to other issue changing stuff. Jingo increased abit, then was reduced by a bigger amount as pops seemed to turn elsewhere.

Ye, it's a zero sum with all issues weighed against each other, so high-con POPs will be more drawn to other stuff.

[Archam]

Also, jingoism is too low that its impossible to add wargoals.

This is simply false. The jingoism is fine for me. You can't really reduce the % more, at that point you could just throw the mechanic away and I think it should stay.

[Rylock]

It's in defines.lua, and also by the tech schools. Essentially, the more Reactionary your UH, the more Economic reforms cost, and the more liberal your UH, the more Military reforms cost. The values are set at -0.4 in vanilla AHD; I removed them entirely for 2.1.0. But by setting both values to -0.2, military reforms suddenly became much more viable and the AI was picking them up and ignoring the economic ones.

If you've gotten the AI to select military reforms at all, then it can't be the interface. Good to know.

Find it odd, though, that uncivs would have so much trouble selecting military reforms-- the Japanese ones in particular are quite reactionary. So you'd think it would be the economic reforms that would be expensive. I might try playing with it tonight and see if I can figure it out.

[Robotkiller]

I still cannot across into the Black Sea with the hotfix. I even deleted my map cache.

[Rylock]

They won't have trouble with timing, since the build time of units is much reduced already. Also not so sure that the soldier boost is needed that much, either. Wait and see on this one.

This is part of what I noticed with AI countries being unable to recover their military numbers after a large defeat-- and thus getting preyed upon as the AI detects their lack of strength. My suspicion is that, in the early part of the game, casualties send soldier pops in those countries very low... and that the AI isn't very good at building those populations back up. If even human players are annoyed at needing to rebuild a soldier population that's been reduced by 75%, despite their ability to do so far more easily, imagine what the AI is doing?

[Naselus]

I still cannot across into the Black Sea with the hotfix. I even deleted my map cache.

Weird. Well, I've just re-installed V2 and AHD entirely so I'm finally using the same version as everyone else, and it STILL works fine for me. I'll put out 2.1.1 either later tonight or tomorrow, as it definitely and completely works in that.

[GAGA Extrem]

Yup, I remember a game as Ottoman Empire, where Russia attacked me and I barely held them off, but it took a decade to replace the soldier losses.
Iirc there was a soldier promotion boost if the % of soldier pop in a province was below a certain threshold - nowthat all soldier pops have a single home province, if that effect hasn't been adjusted, it is probably mitigated and soldier growth much slower.

[sheep-dodger]

or reduce the amount of jingoist people turning to pro military people after wargoals have been added?

This also can't be done, AFAIK.

I thought this could be modded in the cb_types.txt:

	on_add = {
		move_issue_percentage = { 
			from = jingoism 
			to = pro_military
			value = 0.25
		}
	}

[Naselus]

I thought this could be modded in the cb_types.txt:

It can, yes. I have absolutely no idea what was going through my head before :P

[Rylock]

It's in defines.lua, and also by the tech schools. Essentially, the more Reactionary your UH, the more Economic reforms cost, and the more liberal your UH, the more Military reforms cost. The values are set at -0.4 in vanilla AHD; I removed them entirely for 2.1.0. But by setting both values to -0.2, military reforms suddenly became much more viable and the AI was picking them up and ignoring the economic ones.

That is indeed weird. Just been playing with it, myself, and noticed the same thing. Even with all techs at the base 5000 cost, the uncivs will either pick one or the other.

What do the entries for "tech spread" do? They seem to deal with unciv reforms, as well.

UPDATE: It's not just PDM. Vanilla uncivs will do the same thing-- they focus on one or the other, the difference being that each "side" in vanilla adds up to 100% civilization. Giving an unciv unlimited RP's in vanilla means they pass one reform each month (only military reforms, from what I saw) until they civilize.

[Naselus]

That is indeed weird. Just been playing with it, myself, and noticed the same thing. Even with all techs at the base 5000 cost, the uncivs will either pick one or the other.

What do the entries for "tech spread" do? They seem to deal with unciv reforms, as well.

UPDATE: It's not just PDM. Vanilla uncivs will do the same thing-- they focus on one or the other, the difference being that each "side" in vanilla adds up to 100% civilization. Giving an unciv unlimited RP's in vanilla means they pass one reform each month (only military reforms, from what I saw) until they civilize.

'Tech Spread' refers to the discount rate, so techs get 100% cheaper in X years. It doesn't relate to this.

Guess I'll just up the civ value, I suppose.

EDIT: Sorry, thought you were referring to 'tech span', my bad. 'tech spread' refers to the techs uncivs get off their GP masters.

[Clendor]

I can't pass ships through the marmara sea. What's the problem?

Edit: Saw it was already reported. Is there any way I can manually fix it?

[Naselus]

check you adjacencies.csv, and make sure that the Golden Horn is listed as '860;861;land;2773;0;Golden Horn'. Then rebuild your map cache.

[HabemusZlatan]

So, I've been playin' for a while and I noticed that after the congress of Berlin, support the balkans decision, Greece doesn't get any land. I'm fairly sure they do get Crete after the Support The Empire decision so I wanted to know if this is a bug or just some weird thing happening only to me.

[Rylock]

check you adjacencies.csv, and make sure that the Golden Horn is listed as '860;861;land;2773;0;Golden Horn'. Then rebuild your map cache.

Did you remake it into a canal? If so, doesn't the canal need an event to build it or something?

Beyond that, the thing about the adjacencies which might be affecting people is possibly the same problem that I have-- which is that the adjacencies don't work in the mod folder. Even if I delete the entire folder in My Documents and let the cache rebuild, none of the new adjacencies show up. The OE still displays as "Ottoman Empire" in Europe and "Ottoman Asia" elsewhere... which I notice right away, but other people may not and thus don't report it.

My only solution is to play as before, and unzip all the files directly into the Vic2 folder. But if other people have the same problem, and are using the mod folder, then a change to the Golden Horn might not work.

[Rylock]

Guess I'll just up the civ value, I suppose.

One thing I'm going to try tonight is having the reforms change the UH composition. Right now, passing a reform adds conservative... but it doesn't reduce the percentage of liberal/reactionary, and thus those proportions always stay the same. Assuming that the UH is what influences an unciv's choice (what it "thinks" is cheaper, even if it actually isn't), I want to see if changing the UH manually will affect it.

Another option is to double all reform costs, then use the "unciv tech school" to reduce reform costs by 50%... so the cost of an individual reform is never over 100% base (in case that's what makes it go wonky). Might be interesting to test.

Either way, the fact that an unciv picks its reforms this way even in vanilla is worth a bug, I think.

[Naselus]

Did you remake it into a canal? If so, doesn't the canal need an event to build it or something?

There's an event in the bottom of cleanup that activates it.

Beyond that, the thing about the adjacencies which might be affecting people is possibly the same problem that I have-- which is that the adjacencies don't work in the mod folder. Even if I delete the entire folder in My Documents and let the cache rebuild, none of the new adjacencies show up. The OE still displays as "Ottoman Empire" in Europe and "Ottoman Asia" elsewhere... which I notice right away, but other people may not and thus don't report it.

I think adjacencies not working was fixed in 2.21. I've literally just done a complete re-install and run APD 2.1.1alpha from a clean retail AHD 2.21beta, and the canal event works fine - you can't pass the Bos until day 3, after which it's fine unless it's occupied by someone you're at war with. I'm uploading 2.1.1 in a few minutes, once I've done a couple of quick tests to make sure it's not gone insane or something, and then people can test again - they just need to remember to wait a few days before trying, since the canal can't be in place prior to the event.

My only solution is to play as before, and unzip all the files directly into the Vic2 folder. But if other people have the same problem, and are using the mod folder, then a change to the Golden Horn might not work.

Yeah, even then they can just whack a fix on the base folder, tho it's far from ideal. But as I say, I don't think the problem really exists, and I just cocked up the hotfix or something.

[Naselus]

One thing I'm going to try tonight is having the reforms change the UH composition. Right now, passing a reform adds conservative... but it doesn't reduce the percentage of liberal/reactionary, and thus those proportions always stay the same. Assuming that the UH is what influences an unciv's choice (what it "thinks" is cheaper, even if it actually isn't), I want to see if changing the UH manually will affect it.

Another option is to double all reform costs, then use the "unciv tech school" to reduce reform costs by 50%... so the cost of an individual reform is never over 100% base (in case that's what makes it go wonky). Might be interesting to test.

Either way, the fact that an unciv picks its reforms this way even in vanilla is worth a bug, I think.

Run as many tests as you can, tbh, I'd much, much prefer to see the AI picking from both sides of the reform tree.