Phoenix Fire: The American Post Apocolyptic Mod

Orinsul · Mar 25, 2012

Phoenix Fire: A Post-Apocalyptic Mod set during the North American High Meridian Age for Crusader Kings II.

The Plan:
My intention is to first get the commons, starting scenario and map done. Then it will be playable and only then will things like new events, flavour etc be worried about. The first step is getting if off the ground as once it is up and running then it can be open to contributions from those who play it, enjoy it and with to see it better rather than just those who trust that one day itll reach the point of being either playable or enjoyable.
The first version might only include north america and wait until further on to include the rest, or not depending on practicality. But the map will eventually extend vaguely from venzeluea to montreal.

Concept:

The Mod is set some thousand or so years after an apocalyptic event that all but extinguished the light of civilisation and indeed humanity itself, but after generations of struggle and blind survival the world become livable enough for mankind to rebuild itself again. Taking Canticle for Leibowitz as a leading influence for the theme and setting, of a cycle of history where the more or less the same sort of events happen around the same sort of time in different places and with different names over and again. A popular enough idea in philosophy, mythology and of course in science fiction it serves the purpose of justify the CK2 mechanics in a alien non-european setting. The Setting is created entirely for this CK2 mod and so with that in mind all about it ought to be completely compatible with the game.

The setting will be kept close enough to that of CK2 so that will be able to use the majority of CK2s events and mechanics without serious changes to them.
Religion is game is changed to Civilisation, which is what it represents in CK2 anyway. What Community of Nations is this state part of, What peoples motivations, society and actions would this character be able to easily understand and see as like him or find alien and incomprehensible. There are two main Civilisations, lining up to the two in CK2. The First, who are the focus of this mod, is the Democratic Civilisation, the society that grew up out of the ashes of North America, brought together by Congress [The Church]. The Second are the Latin Catholics, a society developed deep in south america by remnants of the Roman Catholic Church. Each founded by different groups for different reasons and set off in different directions from each other, but by the start of the game by convergent evolution and the miracle of narrative demand have both developed to more or less the same shape as required to fit the mechanics of the game. In terms of flavour and story they are wildly different, in one religion is a private, mostly irrelevant thing in the other it is very public and at the heart of all life, In one the peasants represent private farmers, employed labourers, small landowners in the other the communes, commonland and the serf. Close enough to each other that each suit the mechanics of the game, but different enough as to make even the similarities unable to be understood and alien enough to eachother to allow for four-five hundred years of consistent conflict and no chance of compromise.

As far as technology is concerned its more or less the same as CK2. Maybe where there were Candles there are electric lamps or where there was a mill there is now a generator but more or less things are as they are to fit with the game. If there are guns, then they are universal to everyone and so make no difference, itd just be where swords or bows are mentioned the words changed. Its probably best to just stick with swords though or else lots of graphics would need changed for very little gain.

The Phoenix Imagery is of course to invoke the theme of rebirth and revolution, a civilisation risen from the Ashes, etc. And will be used in game through the context of having been the Standard of the charlemangeish character whose empire vaguely defines the borders of civilisation and through his blood a great many monarchs claim their legitimacy to rule. Probably will be used for the US flag as well so the HRE special border graphics fit.

On Titles and an idea of the approach to be taken to Language.

The reasoning behind titles like Governor or President is not a continued line from now to then, but that the new civilisation sees itself as the restoration of the old. Otherwise is there is no connection to the now so it might as well be set anywhere. Congressional Civilisation, atleast east of the river, is held by the ideal that it is America not just revived but surpassing that of antiquity, as of the HRE and Christendom to the Roman Empire only with a greater interregnum and of course much, much more history lost.
When Kings developed out of the slow collapse of rome, they took their titles sometimes from the Bible and sometimes through memories of the pre-roman times, claimed legitimacy through the word King. In this mod we are postulating that the early warlords who after centuries of dust and turmoil sought to validate their expanding rule, under the growing civilising influence of the Congressionals ideas in washington, took the old Titles, Governor, President, etc. And with generations passing them on these titles came to be more than hallow vanities but a hierarchy of organised and defined titles.

For the lower titles and the military titles of the plains, Captain, Commander, General, Officer, etc in some cases may have continued throughout, as first someone with experience, a soldier or policeman took command and lead the survivors as the world died, then he son or second after him, and in some cases the title passing on, in enough cases that then for that 'tribe' or band by the thrid or fourth generation the word had come to mean 'he who is in charge' rather than as it had before. Then as society rebuilt as the world became livable again enough of the peoples who used the word gained enough authority or territory or strength to have the word come also to the peoples they were in contact with to mean powerful leader, leader over many, etc. Until by the time civilisation is established it has come to refer to the controller of a region or a nation of people. Then as everything settles and the structure organises it is that word that is used to denote that thing, formally and recognisably but that culture.

The different will be important while developing the mod, as those titles which continued or developed from the 'grassroots' will have shifted further from english as we understand it, while those titles taken from texts will only have experienced a few hundred years of language drift and so will be closer. Along the same lines as if you take two words in german and in french and ones root is greek and the other latin, the greek might be nearly unrecognisable as sharing a common root while the latin will be different but noticeably the same.

Although probably in many cases entirely new or old descriptive so deceptively new titles will be in place. Director, one who Directs. Commander, one who Commands etc. Or titles which are close as they are borrowed and translated, as where the word is what the neighbours use, we dont have a word, we dont want to use their word, what does it translate to? hang on i think that used to be XXX in the old times, we'll use that word and itll mean more as its accurate. etc.

Language in the north will have evolved out of english and in the south out of spanish. As justification for how close to english its maintained [i.e. will still be recognisable even if the prefix or spelling etc is off] will be through the supposition of a fundamentalist christian cutlure, where for a few hundred years atleast in part of the country a mans education was gained at his mothers knee from the bible. Which allows continuity of common names [as most of the most common are biblical] and allows a plausible reason for a limitation of language drift so as the differences between the northern cultures being as between the romance languages rather than as greek and german, same root-similar ending rather than more reasonable same root-radically different ending] The constant influence of a neighbouring culture thats more or less unchanged allows for continuity of language. Alittle bit anyway, enough to justify James just being Hames or Gimmy rather than having gone all the way to Hen. As a nonsense example.

Anyway the point is to take the same approach to titles and cultures and etc as in CK2. Only in a fictional setting.

On the Apocalypse

It is probably best to leave the end of the world generic and open to private interpretation. The date will concern itself with a moment in recent history so it be will open to the individual players narrative to define how long ago the world ended. Its not really something which needs to be defined, CK2 doesnt concern itself with the fall of rome after all. If it is left unexplained then it could be anything, complete devastation that took thousands of years for anything to develop out of, or a failing of technology a mere thousand years ago, a dollhousing mind control end less than a thousand years ago, nuclear war, climate troubles, terrible plague, or anything basically! All that matters is that it happened and was powerful enough to knock humanity down and out for long enough for enough to be lost. Probably Nuclear War would be the best to think of when making it as its the generic archtype. Did people survive in planned shelters or roaming tribes under open sky or hidden in caves, doesnt really matter as long as we take it that they did survive.
But its probably best if we dont worry about it too much and just leave it as could have been anything that wouldnt have caused signifigant geographical change.
Its that they ended up developing into a suitable for CK2 civilisation that matters, not the specifics of how they got there in the vast pre-history.

Setting:

The mod would start around 370 Union Date or Years since the foundation of the United States [HRE].
The Role of the Church is played by Congress, the idea of a united authority, built of representatives from every Democratic State [Here meaning as Christendom means to Europe, i.e. is part of the civilisation not a form of government] to represent the united will of mankind, to maintain constitutional truths and Federal Laws [Cannon Law], to mediate and serve not one state or one ruler but everyone, equally. The Idea of universal authority, common cause and representative government preserved and personified in the institution of Congress and the person of the Speaker of the House. Mechanically and as game play is concerned, it is the independent religious leader, catholic mechanics, functions as Catholic functions in game and serves the same role in the setting and history of North America.

The main driving force on the history of the setting and the game itself is the Great Plains, being held analogous to the Steppes, the cycle of boom and bust, years of plenty leading to population booms followed by years of famine leading to inter-tribal conflicts or in some cases, those important to the story, migrations east.

Three are important to the mod and form the foundation and narrative structure to the game. The First is the Meridians, some three hundred years before the start of the game, Geremiah the Great, an outlaw and exile from the mississippi city states united the warring nomads of the plains and lead them east, conquering the states and nations and on reaching Washington being named [or more probably naming himself but wording it differently for PR} President of the United States, single highest authority on all secular matters, legitimate and rightful master of the world. Something analogous to if the Huns, Goths and etcs had all been lead by Charlemange. The screaming hordes flooded out of the west seeming to destroy all civilisation but instead united it under one Banner and brought peace and stability, of a sort.

In the Three Hundred Years since the Meridian invasion, or Restoration, the situation settled, the conquers lived alongside the conquered and soon became one people. And as the Heirs of Geremiah squabbled over their inheritance a blind eye was turned to the slow erosion of power as the states and cities reasserted their old rights and a fair number of new ones too. And turned a bling eye too to the incursions from the south of an alien and organised civiliation.

The Next in the decades either side of the start of the game and play the role of the Turk. Starting around 310 U.D. Disorganised Armies and Nations began raiding and then settling the Trans-mississippi, eventually pushing east across the river and even into Union territory itself, after accepting the laws and conventions and the moral and constitutional authority of Congress to legitimise their rule to their local subjects they made peace with their neighbours were brought into civilisation. This group, known by historians as the Third Wave, are often crediting with reinvigorating the spirit, particularly the military spirit of Congressional civilisation and providing the energy and motivation for the Liberations and Illuminationary Wars of the following four centuries to the South. Its also important to note that it i generally considered that the major cause of the formal Schism of 368 between the Provisional Government in Brazosine and Congress which would perpetually divide Democratic Civilisation and sunder the Texan and Mexican states from the Unity of Civilisation were inevitable following the autonomy enjoyed while cut off by Third Wave occupation of the Louisianas.

The Thrid is the Fourth Wave, who come from the furthest west about, two-three hundred years into the game. Having conquered the rich and legendary lands of California and the Sunset Empires They come as a sudden and alien torrent out of the horizon and threaten to end democratic civilisation if all dont rally against it. [i.e. Mongols are Mongols are Mongols and these are just Mongols. Only major difference is they start off at your backdoor instead going through the enemy before getting to you, unless you play as a latin in which case, mongols is mongols]

Credits:
Design Concept:
Joal, Goal, Orinsul and the other posters on thread http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?542847-Post-Apocalyptic-Mod
Whats written here is more or less that discussion but collated and consolidated into a single brief.

Map: Ulrichomega, Arcvalons

MOD CREDITS::

Ulrichomega, Mr. Capitalist, Ataulf, Arcaul, Arcvalons, LolCakeLazors, Orinsul

SIGN UP TO GET YOUR NAME HERE

Orinsul · Mar 25, 2012

Caligulabobs map north-east update

Current Map by ulrichomega

Design Maps as made by Jaol
These are the current maps, as made by Joal

Jaol said:

Brief Glossary of Generic unlocalised terms:
CK2 = Generic = Carolinian = Meridian = Plainsman
Rendered in common english [probably wont be in game] 〃 = use generic
Emperor {HRE} = President {US}
King{Kingdom} = Governor{State} = 〃 =〃 = General{Nation}
Duke{Duchy} = Director{District} = Director{Directorship} = 〃= Colonel{Army}
Count{County} = Comissioner{} = Comissioner{} = Commander{} = Captain{}
Pope{Papacy} = Speaker of the House {Congress}
Religion = Civilisation
Pagan = Barbarian, meaning not part of civilisation or taken seriously by the civilised.
Illuminatory Wars = The Congressional Crusades, the wars to bring the light and liberty of true civilisation to the barbarian and oppressed.
Crusades = Catholic Crusades, 〃〃〃〃〃

Civilisation [Religion] Groups:

Democratic:
Congressional [Catholic Mechanics]
Provisional [Orthodox Mechanics]
Catholic:
Latin Catholic [Catholic Mechanics]
Crusader Catholic [Caliphate Mechanics]
Judicial:
Judicial [Dormant Caliphate Mechanics]
Sunset:
Sunsetter [No Mechanics, used for [Mongols]]
Plains:
Western [No mechanics Pagans]
Caribbean:
Caribbean Barbarian [No Mechanics Pagan]
Northern:
Northern Barbarian [No Mechanics Pagan]
Maritime [No Mechanics Pagan]
etc for other pagans

W.I.P.

Orinsul · Mar 25, 2012

Brief Summary of Different Regions:
Mostly defined by modern map names for purpose of outlining the concept an being understandable, although many had difted alittle or grown or shrunk. On the whole as with everything else, still very much concept so likely to change if better ideas come along. Idea of map density and starting set-up.
Terms switched bewteen CK2 generic, modern map and in-setting. Emperor-President being used interchangeable and inconsistently as a warning. Details are more or less all still up for discussion.
Referenced by maps in post-above

Canada:

Disorganised and isolated tribes and petty nations. Along the rivers and other trade routes a 'Judicial' religion group, with a potential religious leader should they ever amount to an emperor title. Independent dukes or small or titular kings. Possibility of a history of having been raiders along the rivers and coasts to the south before Congressional civilisation stabilised and was able to fight back in the manner of dark age vikings. Northern edge of the map basically, many provinces on the rivers but not much anywhere else owning to extreme seasons making it not suitable for sedimentary civilisation [i.e. cant grow crops consistently enough]

Maritime and New Englandy Area:

Pommerian/Bulgarian/Prussiany, a mixture of barbarian, judicial and democratic counts under independent dukes, not always even so cause for internal conflict from day one. Possibly under de-jure Imperial authority but lost to civilisation during the centuries of decline and distraction, either was considered part of civilisation but no serious attempts made to bring it into it fully either military or proselytic in the centuries preceding the start of the mod. Probably trade-wealthy.

Washington [Congressional Papal States]

Independent Congress, province small and surrounded by the empire [US] but with control of a majority of the temple holdings in the realms around it to maintain its autonomy if threaten.

The United States: [see map]

Region which starts off under the rule of the Emperor and is always de jure. Province heavy, with its province and duke-and-below culture divided by the Appalachian mountains between the Meridian and Carolinian culture groups. About Three or Four de jure Kingdoms, altough in starting condition probably around two existing, one to each side of the mountains, but being around the same size [not de jure but starting] as the powerful dukes who surround them. But with an expectation that the feudal elective imperial title of President will go between the two Kings in most cases. most lords duke and above will be descendants of Geremaih through daughters at various points so all able to secretly consider themselves the true heir to all of it. Probably starting with medium kingdom authority and with many characters have claims on each other so as soon as it falls squabbling starts. Probably have the current President as a small duke in the middle, something of a compromise candidate between the two sides and try to balance them so when he dies it wont be the same successor every game.

NEW
Great Lakes 'Rust Belt' Region by Mr. Capitalist

Mr. Capiatlist said:
If you don't mind (and I know this slightly steps on the toes of some previously suggested canon set-up) I'd like to make some suggestions for my own neck of the woods. So for those of you who are new, this is not official, it is only my suggestion to the team.

Anyway, I live outside of Detroit but was raised in Cleveland and went to Uni outside of Chicago/Indianapolis. My fiancee is from Indianapolis. In short, the Great Lakes are sort of my thing. I was chatting about the mod with my fiancee because she was interested in what kept me from bed, so we started talking about the changes in language and religion over 1000. She is a linguist so she was particularly interested in that aspect. But we got to talking about what would the Great Lakes be like? Especially given that the dialects and cultures of Indiana, Illinois, Ohio and Michigan are very similar. For those of you who don't know in the USA we have something called the "Rust Belt", sort of like the "Bible Belt" in the south, only instead of bibles we have industry. The Rust Belt stretches from Buffalo (or Pittsburgh) to Milwaukee. We are a strange group of people and there is basically a Western (Chicago) and Eastern (Buffalo) variants. We share a lot of were language quirks (Where's my coat at?) as well as food things. I wanted to expand on this: what would the Rust Belt become in 1000 years after the fall of man kind?

Well, Rohan, essentially, was the opinion of me and my beloved. Basically we've envisioned the Great Lakes as the Baltic and North Seas of the new American landscape. So where as Rohan was Viking on horseback, the Rust Belt is sort of divided between those who take to maritime raiding (especially from cities like Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland) and those vikings of the plains (Indianapolis, Columbus and Evansville). But culturally they are very related and can probably stand each other more than they can stand outsiders. Now in Ohio, being on the Western edge of the United States, might have some 'civilized' rulers, maybe those who have submitted to the President for protection or to get leverage over his neighbors. But generally they disdain being bossed around by those from over the Appalachians. The Appalachians serve as a decent boundary and the Ohio river is a Sacred body of water (even more so than the Mississippi) to these people. It divides them from those that would subjugate them. I would almost envision chiefs traveling to the Ohio or the Wabash or even the Illinois Rivers before battle to be anointed with the protective waters.

So to begin, the current Duchy layout:

For the most part it is okay, but there are some problems (I feel). There are 16 Duchies and some of them are very obviously based on current political divisions. Some might survive to the far future, but I don't think they all would. Here is my suggestion:

Here there are only 14 Duchies and I believe they are a bit more naturally divided. For the most part each has a large city in it to act as a capital province and instead of being based on modern borders they are based on location and the general "feel" I get when moving through the region. Names will come if I am given reign in my beloved Rust Belt homeland.

From the Duchies I built two Kingdoms:

Basically a Kingdom of Ohio and a Kingdom of Chicago.

There is also the question of Culture. I basically made two "Rust Belt" cultures, one maritime and one land-based, and then divided those into the sub-cultures.

The Blue/Purple cultures are the maritime cultures and the Yellow ones are the land-based ones (don't worry about the language yet... still in it infancy):
Light Blue - Miŝiğën (from Miŝigen, itself from Michigan)
Dark Blue - Ŝikağën (from Ŝikage, itself from Chicago)
Purple - Klovlanën (from Klovlan, itself from Cleveland)
Green - Minzotë (from Minzota, itself from Minnesota)
Golden - Itahôn (from Itahô, itself from Idaho)
Beige - Hŏzyer (from C. English "Hoosier" of unknown origins)

As you can see I am just testing out some of the linguistic properties of Future Midlands English. More on that in a future post...

Lastly is the "religion" or from what I can tell from the first few posts from Orinsul "government". I am assuming "religion" will be used to affect modifiers, give certain bonuses and minuses to troop composition and stuff like that, as well as events and anything else we can think of. With this in mind there are two "religions", basically dividing maritime provinces from "Rohan" provinces:

Pretty simple.

Anyway, that is my proposal and I hope it doesn't step on too many toes, but when reading the first post I was sort of disheartened at the lack of enthusiasm for areas outside of the United States and New England/Canada. So I am hoping this can make every group of the map interesting and deep and allow for each of us to focus where we are most interested so that the final product is a total labor of love. Plus it will make players feel more engrossed if every region has a deep and intertwined story leading up to the start date and really makes them feel they have taken a glimpse at the future.

Frontier Lakes States:

Around the Great Lakes a small scattering or independent duchies or small kingdoms both civilised and not. If not Kingdoms then a de jure for whoever gets there first to create.

UPDATED: Rust-Belt Hurric Peoples

Mr. Capiatlist said:
Okay, here is preview of what I've been up to when not working on T-shirts/flags for a soccer game on Saturday.

First off, I can start with the name. "Hurric" is the Meridian name for the Rustbelt people. It comes from Lake Huron and the once-might Huron Empire that once united the Hurric peoples. "Hurric" then is very similar to our word "Germanic" in that it can represent several groups that are distantly related though maybe not directly related. The Hurric endonym is "Ërëna", it comes from Erie, which used to be the most important lake for many of the Hurric peoples given that it sits along side or nearest to several of their important cities: Cleveland, Detroit, Erie and Buffalo. It is also the name of the first united Kingdom of the Rustbelt people.

The Hurrians use a different calendar as the Meridians. This will only be partially represented in-game. The actual calendar will be using the Meridian system, though an event might changes the Hurrian calendar should they be expanding or contracting more than they should. At the game start (690) it is roughly 200 in the Age of Storms. The Age of Storms is a rough patch for the Hurrians. Depending on how things go the Age of Storms will continue, give way to an even worse period of collapse, or turn into an age of conquest. This "rough" patch was begun with the disastrous invasion of the Hurrian homelands by the Plainsmen, Meridians and Kingdom of Ohio, as well the the Quebecois. This forever changed the landscape of the Hurrians.

Religion

The Hurrians are a very religious people. Like I mentioned, unlike the Easterners who are bound together through political means, the Hurrians are bound together by worship. In "ancient" times they worshiped a single deity (likely a syncretic or devolved and decentralized form of Christianity). Sticking the the semi-norse/Rohirm theme this is the "Old Father" or Alfadr (in Hurric). In the worship of the Old Father, water was sacred, especially rivers and lakes. The Ohio and Mississippi rivers are especially holy and many rulers make pilgrimages to these rivers at least once in their lives. But each region has its own sacred bodies of water. For example, the Cuyahoga is sacred to those in Cleveland while the Wabash is sacred to those in Indiana. This has given rise to the eastern misconception that Hurrians worship the actual rivers rather than the truth where they use them to commune with their god(s).

Recently though there have been growing differences in the exact beliefs. This leads to three mostly harmonious religions each with a particular body of water associated with it: Lake Erie, Lake Michigan, and the Ohio/Mississippi River. There is also an arch-heresy for each orthodoxy religion: The Old Mother, bringer of November Witches over Lake Erie; Balbanë, the God-slayer of the North; and the Storm King, usurper of the Old Father in the south. There are also two revolutionary heresies that start off in play. The Kebakën are those that have started to seem a bit more Canadian than the other Hurrians. And the Kongresë, those that have been brought under the fold of the Union and its Congressional beliefs.

Culture

I've since added a few cultures to keep the area from being too homogeneous. It should feel like everyone is similar, but also not exactly the same. They are too decentralized to be perfectly uniform. It will take a long time to get enough names but given everything else is moving a bit slow, I think I have time.

These are the cultures at the start. I based this off my original map with a few additions. First was the Canadians coming in from Arcul's section. I've tried to keep them a bit more isolated from the rest. There are also the Niagarans who live under the yoke of the Union to varying degrees of acceptance. Right now the religion map shows them all being a syncretic form of Hurric Religion and Congressional beliefs. This might eventually be changed so they are all the same as the Cleveland area and led by an elite who are the heresy. I want to see how well it works first. I also added the two river peoples. First is along the Mississippi, know as the "Riviera". The second was to split Illinois and Indiana.

De Jure Realms

Duchies:

Kingdoms:

Empire:

The Empire is based off the Huron Empire that first united the Hurrians and brought them to the attention of the East. The Green Kingdom in the north, the Kingdom of Minnesota, almost managed to reunite this Empire and is the only Kingdom to truly exist during the pre-history. The Purple kingdom, the Kingdom of Erie, existed in a more "proto" form as the original Kingdom of the Rust Belt people. However; much of this lore is either forgotten or misunderstood. The lower green kingdom, the Kingdom of Chicago, never existed as Chicago has often just been a Free City. But should a ruler come who can unite the city and driver her people to war can quickly find themselves as a powerful center for the Hurrians.

Political

So at the game has a start, so what to the Hurrian look like at the start?

Like so. Many of these countries are Duchies, some are merely counts. I do have ideas for a few titular titles to start off. First is the Duke of Transpennsylvania, the vassal of the Union. The others are the King of Cuyahoga in the the East, who has increased his rank to try to gain more support in order to either hold back the Union or eventually retake the Niagara region; the Doge of Chicago (which starts as a free city), representing his massive wealth; and lastly the King of Superior, whose ancestors nearly united the great Huron Empire.

The Carolinas:

: A very large, province heavy kingdom, comprising the de jure Kingdom of Carolina and half of the Kingdom of Georgia. Easily the largest and most powerful kingdom in the game, Bordering the United States, so basically CK2 France. Rulers descend paternally from pre-meridian rulers and still define themselves as more legitimate sons of the land through this connection. low authority, powerful dukes and neighbours to keep them in check.

Georgia:

Probably the richest de jure kingdom in the game. Starting off divided between the Governors of Carolina and Alabama, probably messily, with the border going through de jure duchies and each with extensive holdings in the others bit to promote conflict between the two southern powers and give the potential for a third should things go south or at the hands of an enterprising player.

Florida:

Large, low barony provinces in the south, populated and ruled by caribbean group barbarians with the north under the independent duchy of Orlando, Carolinian rulers with floridian caribbean barbarians as counts and below.

Central South

Kingdom of Alabama, mostly already outlined as the rival of Carolina. Some internal conflict at the start might come from a count-down heresy stronghold and by merit of being shared by three roughly equal sized cultures but starting off slightly more centralised than carolina. The heresy representing something along the lines of a fundamentalist protestant culture among the lower orders dating back from antiquity being used to justify the retention of familiar names and to limit the language drift among meridian cultures to recognisable to modern form. While quite a powerful kingdom [about on par with CKs england sans invasion troubles] it bordered on three sides by major states, the Empire title, Carolina and the southern most thrid wave kingdom.

New Orleans and Louisiana:

Two King tier titles, one titular and in the others de jure, both small in map size but moderately province heavy to make up for it. New Orleans being a maritime venicey republic bolstered by scattered single province citystate vassals throughout the gulf and mostly other-realm city holdings along the gulf coast and up the river. The Kingdom of Louisiana, the larger of the two maybe four duchies to New Orleans one. A small little state caught between Alabama on one side, in-the-ERE Texas on the other and the thrid wave Texarkana capping it off. With a recent history of a generation of occupation by the plainsmen itll compound being small with being underdeveloped. More a country to play than to challenge the player.

The Trans-Mississippi:

The strip of civilisation west of the river [and alittle east at some points] ruled by the Thrid Wave plainsmen.
Southern most, the State of Texarkana, the name obviously a nod to Canticle and also good for sounding suitably nomadic. Possibly titular in the manner of the Seljuks the largest of the thrid wave states, both in map presence and province count. But almost exclusively a ruling class, almost entirely count and down will be meridian and many dukes as well. Titles a half-step between the plains and civilisation to show that here the conquers integrated themselves into the establishment rather than replacing it. Possibly gives up culture group specific building allowing horse archers in exchange for larger, more stable realm.

Above them the Ozarks, definitely a de jure title and maybe more extensive south or west than their starting holdings. The result of a tribal invasion war, pressed up against the empire and possibly some scattered claims against them among imperial vassals. Mostly civilised but with barbarian vassals among the western vassals. Shares a culture with Texarkana so expectations that theyll be closeish, but will later melting pot apart.

And then the Indianan Confederacy, the most recent invasion from the plains, starting at war with the minor frontier states to its north and possibly with the empire itself. Uses plainsmen titles not civilised plainsmens titles and maybe a mercenary vassal or a different building to promise additional horses. Only the ruling family and a couple prominent vassals congressional, the majority of vassals western barbarians but same culture. Possibility of swedening if liege is deposed before bringing his vassals into civilisation.

Great Plains Nomads:

Everything west of the trans-Mississippi states and north of mexico, as with the 'Khazaria' steppes in CK2. Possibility that Holy Wars against Barbarians wont be possible without a physical border and maybe also a ban on Holy Wars from within the same culture group, atleast for the thrid wave to stop it getting pacified too quickly. Mostly made up of independent dukes or titular duke-sized kings. Not sure how far west the map should go as the great plains arent suitable for sedimentary settlement which is required for the mechanics of the game, and also theres got to be enough space to 'india' the west coast. Atleast a two duchy thickness around texas and into northern mexico, and probably and three or four duchy thickness from the trans-mississippi to the PTI. Probably an unclaimed Emperor tier title should anyone unite it, maybe with the trans-mis included.Probably events that restore the starting titular titles in the style of tiny mongol or merc invasions if the land is conquered by either civilisation to make it unruly and difficult to hold on to without serious effort.

The Two Empires of Mexico: Heres a huge amount of territory sharing a section but its all interconnected. In Mexico you have two Empire Titles, each playing the part of the ERE in their respective civilisations. Also dealing with a brief history of Mexico as the history dealt solely with the U.S.

The Presidency and Provisional Democracy:

The Democratic, the Mexican Presidency or the Federal Presidency or something like that. Established in the days when travel hadnt been safe or easy itd had diverged significantly from Congressional America in tradition and law. Appointing its own President in response to the Meridian compact on refusing to bend the knee arguing a lawful appointment by common consent to protect civilisation from the unjust usurpation of a barbarian king. Though with divided secular leadership with the north they remained in the communion of civilisation. The local Delegates, who already from merit of distance and differing culture had significant local authority, grew in influence and authority through the political division. During the Thrid Wave invasion the barbarian plainsmen held the mississippi sundering the two halves from each other and effectively isolating Mexico from Congress. The Mexican and other south-western representatives meet in the Presidencial Court, then in Brazos and convened the Provisional Federal Government to act on behalf of Congress for the extent of the emergency. When the president rode south to meet the Crusaders further duties and responsibilities were vested in it and when the capital was formally moved south to the [Mexico] City to be closer to the frontlines and for the symbolism the palace of Brazos was given to them, making the Provisional Speaker also a temporal vassal of the President.

With the reconquest of Louisiana and the treaties and civilising of the Ozarks consistent and reliable contact was reestablished but with more than a generation gone the Brazosine Provisionals were loathe to give up their gained authority, autonomy and responsibilities, their President backing them and Congress unwilling to compromise on issues new and old but brought topical by the controversy which all ended in the Schism of 668, a formal recognition of a divide in unity in attempt to prevent a full break.

With the disaster at Neve Toluca, the last major battle in the first crusade and the scuttling of the last serious attempt to retaking the City before the start of the game and the Presidents death on the march home, the Presidency was thrown into chaos between the reconquesta and reconciliator factions leaving the Presidency in no state to responde to the southern aggression and sparking off the Illuminatory movement in the northern states.

The Empire in Mexico and Crusader Catholicism:

The wars and crisis of the Armistician Heresy saw the militarisation and popularity of a number of monastic orders coupled with a great expanse in the military expertise and willingness among the nobility. Following the resolution of the Crisis support began to grow for a move against the north, where for centuries a long cold conflict had been carried out against the nonconvertible barbarians of the deep jungles of the Great Northern Empires. In response to requests and eager to divert the militarism away from fellow latins the Servant of the Servants of God, the Santissimo Padre Ramón IV issued a Papal Bull liscencing aggression against barbarians to the north and legitimising and promising autonomy to any conquests and kingdoms as may be established by those conquests on the condition that responsibility for the wellbeing and education the conquered be accepted fully by the conqueror. And so a slow conquest of the divided and independent tribes of central america began and support almost waned.

But after coming into armed contact with the organised alien civilisation of the Presidency in Mexico a full-scale crusade was called for the salvation of Mexico. As the ten thousand third sons of the Latin kings rode north in the one great, co-ordinated crusade of the era. After twenty years of war in the Great Plaza of Mexico City [A Spanish Name], greatest commander of the crusade was crowned by full support of the Crusader Lords, Emperor in Mexico. Sovereign of all the Crusader States and Highest Authority of everything north of Christendom, titles which the Church recognised. As an unintended consequence of both the ill-wording of the orginal agreement and the recognition of the Emperors titles the Church was given no choice but to accept the Emperors jurisdiction over the church within his mandate.

This is what Crusader Catholicism represents in game, not a break from the church but a delegation, atleast as the Crusaders see it. Rather than challenging the universal authority of the church or the succession of St. Peter they challenge only the authority of the throne of St. Peter within the Crusader States. The Pope is the highest authority over the Church, except in Mexico where the Emperor is. As in Gallican, not two Churches but one Church in one international community, but within the state the state is first and the church is second. In the main Latin Church the taxes goto the Church, in the Crusader States they goto the Emperor. Probably only the Emperor can call crusades as any ground captured by crusades would be under his jurisdiction. But that still leaves excommunications, invasions and divorces which is surely well enough to be going on with.

The starting shape of Mexico:

Mexico [here meaning mexico texas and much of central america] starts off in civil war. Two Empires scrapping for control, balanced wars having left provisional dukes with crusader counts and crusader dukes with provisional counts and a good amount of an uncivilised mexican religion group characters scattered around the place too. If any advantage is given itd be to the south to give more urgency to the Illuminationary Wars.

The North has larger provinces, while the south and especially around the City are especially dense, possibly the densest and richest in the mod. Although being almost constantly battlegrounds would calm that. But even if its unbalanced it should be. Then provinces getter larger again towards the yucatan being jungle.
Both civilisations will have small landed vassal of the empire holy orders though not as levy large as the CK2 ones.

Latin America:

Largely undeveloped idea,probably two kingdoms per modern country, ecuador through to venzeleua and similarly sized ones up through central america up to around honduras where the border with the crusader states would be. Maybe a higher province count per kingdom than the democratic kingdoms to make them stronger. With no crusaders and border limited holy wars they could be significantly overpowered without be any real risk to balance being only a threat to each other. To make them very hard to attack [as the congressionals will get crusade cbs against them]

Latin Catholic Civilisation continues south of the map, and if they start being significantly conquered then theyll get new holy orders and mercs to represent southern support. And possibly should they be extinguished then mongol invasion mechanics triggered after a while to represent a southern south american attempt at reconquest.

As for Latin backstory, something along the lines of there being an out of the way monastery or something that was isolated enough to keep going more or less in a recognisable state through the storm that then slowly over centuries reached out to surrounded communities and expanded until it had too many branches so had to establish a hierarchy but still very much a monastic organisation concerned with little outside its own walls, sent out for news from all corners to try and reestablish contact with the church and eventually coming to the conclusion that they were all that was left of it set them selves up as it. [Possibly in argentina or paraguay or somewhere.]
Now taking upon its shoulders the responsibility of the Church it started getting involved in the development of the communities around it, and over time its duties, power and position changed until it was the integral heart of an entire civilisation, constantly expanding bringing more and more of the peoples and nations into it and bringing an end to the long ages of chaos and ignorance.
Eventually converting the populous and powerful north, and either moving the papacy then seeing it as the centre of civilisation/power or the northern kings offering the papacy temporal holdings in exchange for the privilege of having the papacy in their part of the world or maybe even it not being until this state that a Grand-Abbot or whatever finally took the presumption to claim the Throne of St. Peter and moving the governance of the church to himself in the north. But anyway, eventually within a century or two of the start of the game the Papal States or whatever we'll call them getting established on the map. [Not originating on the map to make the conflict between the two civilisations as new one, Latin eyes only recently turned north after centuries of being kept busy uniting and civilising the south. And also to allow for a strongly Latin Catholic off-map south to provide a Mongoly invasion to reclaim the on-map south america if it falls to the Democratics or Heresy]
The history being dominated by a cycle of counter-heresy revolutions to tie it in to the Phoenix theme and allow it to be both terribly old but still energetically young [What the Plains invasions do to in the North]. M.A. declines, church challenged by a number of heretical movements, one becomes powerful and almost destroys it, church rallies and beats it back, Church is reinvigorated and new progressive period begins, then it slips into content idleness, M.A. declines, etc. And basically how it worked in real history too so tried and proven.
And then getting into the period of upper nobility over-population and militant and religious restlessness that results in the crusading movements into Mexico and sparking off the conflict of the game which i wrote out somewhere on the first page and once i remember where will site it.

The Caribbean:

Numerous independent duchies and counties of the caribbean barbarian religion group. The civilisations would be get a special CB for them as being all on islands the border thing wouldn't work for them, probably province based so if one holds it the other is allowed to go for it. While starting off under barbarian control, its highly likely that New Orleans and whoever is their equivalent among the latins, would have small enclaves and trade ports throughout it. Either at holding or county level.

Theyre caught inbetween the two so probably something along the lines of having played off each side against each other for great profit during the cold conflict but never committed to either but guaranteeing their independence through the prospect that they could easy go with the other side if provoked too and with a good deal of their wealth in recent times having come from middle-manning trade between the two civilisations before the trade republics of New Orleans and whoever is the souths version of it went over their heads creating a crisis at the start of the game where the old merchant run establishment is losing ground to a rising nobility dissatisfied with the fall in living standard and putting the blame on their own merchant princes rather than the growing foreign conflict or changing times.
So maybe the game could start with recently victorious dukes/kings with much more powerful cities than castles under them so at risk of losing everything if they dont keep the cities on side or with republics outnumbered in active rebellions for their primary titles so the player if he wanted to play a caribbeanian or whatever could take part in it. Or a mix of both as is there rather a lot of it so all bar st dominics could have already have the nobles win.
As if it was just all city states then players couldnt play them, but having recently been city states and having the city barons three to one more powerful than their noble counts would make a situation that i dont think the game has so a fun and challenging option, not only are you pagan but if the mayors rebel, and they will, then youre out.

Off-Map: the Sunset Empires

Location of the legendary Sunset Empires, a rich foreign land. While traders often cross the long plains and distant mountains for the exotic goods found beyond them nothing solid is really known about these lands though many contradictory rumours circulate about them. Sunset Empires most certainly not what they call themselves, just as democratics call them. As with the Golden Horde. If the setting doesn't have guns, and its possible, they might have a couple unique troop types, riflemen and mounted riflemen or something like that. If not then they'll just have larger numbers of cavalry than the plainsmen.

As a graphic difference, as having a different racial appearance probably wouldn't make sense then they might have clothes differences, science fiction/fascisty uniforms instead or armour and medieval stuff or something like that so they look very different to emphasis the alienness of their society beyond even that of the traditional enemies.
On that point either Catholics or Democratics would probably need new clothes graphics or one could use CK2 moslem or mongol clothes [sans-hats] or something like that.

Hystarea · Mar 25, 2012

Good Luck! Btw I don't know if I read this or not but maybe you can make it so the Mongol Invasions in CK2 is the tribes from Canada, but the Tribes in Canada being not as powerful as the Mongols in CK2. If you do that then you should allow an event or decision to destroy the horde; in other words, stop Tribal's from attacking again. Just an Idea.

Orinsul · Mar 25, 2012

Mitchmon said:
Good Luck! Btw I don't know if I read this or not but maybe you can make it so the Mongol Invasions in CK2 is the tribes from Canada, but the Tribes in Canada being not as powerful as the Mongols in CK2. If you do that then you should allow an event or decision to destroy the horde; in other words, stop Tribal's from attacking again. Just an Idea.

Thanks! the idea with canada as raiders was to have been in the recent past, with the game being at the start of the progressive middle ages equivalent, if they were still being raided from the north alongside everything thats going on to the north then thatd probably mean starting in the defensive dark ages. Probably all of canada that is canada will be on the map, with off-map canada either too sparsely population to worry about or nomadic and just one and the same as the off-map great plains regardless of modern map distinctions.
Having having decisions for the player to stop minor invaders is a great idea and might be applied to the resurgent plainsmen or latins should enough be conquered for them to matter, maybe along the lines of EU3MMs nomad pacification modifier/decision chain. But anything like that is still months away from having to be worried about.

LolCakeLazors · Mar 25, 2012

Good luck with this mod.

I like how the Great Plains is an area full of hordes. Kind of gives me the feeling of the Native Americans of the Plains coming back.

Love to help but I have no experience modding with any Paradox Interactive game.

Arcvalons · Mar 25, 2012

You could have it in the lore that Mexico ended up being part of the USA before the apocalypse, then you'd have an excuse to uyse the similar titles. Though Mexico by itself does have a different tradition inherited from Spain and such, and has already had a couple of Emperors, so theoretically you could justify using vanilla titles with that.

Orinsul · Mar 25, 2012

Arcvalons said:
You could have it in the lore that Mexico ended up being part of the USA before the apocalypse, then you'd have an excuse to uyse the similar titles. Though Mexico by itself does have a different tradition inherited from Spain and such, and has already had a couple of Emperors, so theoretically you could justify using vanilla titles with that.

all the titles developed after the apocalypse, mexico is part of civilisation because delegates [i.e. congressional missionaries] travelled there and brought it into it whihc is the justification for it having congressional titles. the political divisions of the pre-apocolypse world are irrelevant as an apocalypse happened between them and the mod.

LolCakeLazors said:
Good luck with this mod.

I like how the Great Plains is an area full of hordes. Kind of gives me the feeling of the Native Americans of the Plains coming back.

Love to help but I have no experience modding with any Paradox Interactive game.

Thanks! its not so much native americas, theyd be descended from anyone, but a similiar lifestyle as its what the geography demands. If you like to help on the culture names or that side of thing then no modding experience is needed, just patience and imagination.

LolCakeLazors · Mar 25, 2012

Orinsul said:
Thanks! its not so much native americas, theyd be descended from anyone, but a similiar lifestyle as its what the geography demands. If you like to help on the culture names or that side of thing then no modding experience is needed, just patience and imagination.

I have a lot of time on my hands and I guess this wouldn't hurt. I'd be glad to assist you.

If you could PM me some details or something along those lines, I can start brainstorming right now.

EDIT: Do you plan to fill in the rest of New Jersey?
Maybe something along the lines of "Duchy of Newark" or "Duchy of Trenton"?

Orinsul · Mar 25, 2012

LolCakeLazors said:
I have a lot of time on my hands and I guess this wouldn't hurt. I'd be glad to assist you.

If you could PM me some details or something along those lines, I can start brainstorming right now.

EDIT: Do you plan to fill in the rest of New Jersey?
Maybe something along the lines of "Duchy of Newark" or "Duchy of Trenton"?

Im assuming from the map that its starting duchies [while the mexican one was expressively de jure], so i guess thered be a de jure duchy there of some description but all direct vassal of the emperor counts.

This is what ive got for Cultures so far. Just brainstorming at this stage, currently just taking from the lists of popular names and common or cool sounding biblicials and trying a few things with language drift to try and work out what looks right or reasonable and what looks silly or gimmicky.
the graphical cultures are just place holders

Code:

Carolinian = {
	graphical_culture = westerngfx

	Old_Carolinian = {
		graphical_culture = frankishgfx
		
		color = { 0.25 0.5 0.75 }
		
		male_names = {
			Abel_Abel Abrem_Abraham Adem_Adam Adrien_Adrian Aden_Aden Aderi_Adea Alisende_Alexander Amos Andae_Andrew Austen_Austin Bennae_Benjamin Bertolan Belae_Belthasar Carl_Charles 
			Chrisae_Christian Casae_Casper Colm_Colin Danee_Daniel Davae_David Donnae_Don Duke Erel_Earl Teddae_Edward Eddae_Edward Elease Ele_Elijah Elme_Elmo Helve_Elvis Ere_Eric Eve_Evan Ezra
			Felex_Felix Gene Geff_Geoffrey Gorden_Gordon Gorgae_Georgia Gos Hal_Hal Hebe_Hebel Herae_Harry Hollae_Holly Howed_Howard Ien_Ian Issae_Issac Hae_Jack Hacob_Jacob Haspen_Casper
			Himmae_James Heffersen_Jefferson Harae_Jerry Heremae_Jeremiah Heremae_Jeremy Hess_Jessie Honae_Johnny Hohnae_John Hoseph_Joseph Hoshae_Joshua June_Junior Lenae Lee_Lee Louae_Lou 
			Levae_Levi Luke_Luke Lete_Luther Mel_Malcolm Mar_Mark Matthae_Matthew Mel_Melchior Merrae_Merv Micae_Micah Miccae_Michael Moses_Moses Nathen_Nathan Nickae_Nick Palen_Paul 
			Perrae_Perry Peter_Peter Phell_Phil Prece Rafae_Ralph Rae Reben_Reuben Ricae_Richard Samae_Sam Samel_Samuel Simme_Simon Sincae_Sinclair Senn_Steve Terrae_Terry Timethae_Tim
			Tommae_Thomas Tobae_Toby Tenae_Tony Ulyes_Ulysses Verge_Virginia Washenten_Washington Billae_William Wells Wayne
		}
		female_names = {
			Abbia_Abbey Ada Asha_Aisha Alana_Alana Alda Alesa_Alice Alexa Arial_Ariel Alvina Amalia Ana_Anne Ara Arizona Asia Auda_Audrey Bella_Bella Bessa_Bethany Salanda Celena_Celeste Carlotta_Charlotte 
			Chol_Chole Christa_Chrissy Clara_Claire Dacata_Dakota Danna_Diana Darla Dawn_Dawn Deana Danall Dia Drema Ela_Eleanor Elicia Lizabet_Elisabeth Elvina Emma_Emma Estha_Esther Eva_Eve
			Evelin Faith_Faith Floria_Florida Frida_Friday Gabriel_Gabriel Gemma Georgina_Georgia Gloria_Gloria Haca_Grace Hanna_Hannah Helena_Helen Hesta_Hester Hanuary_Jaunary Hasmin_Jasmine Hena_Jenny 
			Hessa_Jessy Hohanna_Joan Huda_Judith Hulia_Juliet Cara_Karen Cata_Kate Lana Lara_Luara Leah_Leah Leta Loula_Louisiana Luca_Lucy Lyla Malia_Mallory Maragara_Margaret Marcalla_Marceline Mara_Marah
			Marisa Marivel Maya Melda Meloda Micaela Miriam_Miriam Nada Niama_Naomi Nova Oliva_Olive Pamela Quin_Queen Rebbecca_Rebecca Rosa_Rose Ruba_Ruby Sama_Sam Sara_Sarah Soffa_Sofia Susa_Susan Tana Tamara Virgina_Virginia 
		}
		
		from_dynasty_prefix = "e "
		bastard_dynasty_prefix = "Ese "
		
		# Chance of male children being named after their paternal or maternal grandfather, or their father. Sum must not exceed 100.
		pat_grf_name_chance = 40
		mat_grf_name_chance = 25
		father_name_chance = 0
		
		# Chance of female children being named after their paternal or maternal grandmother, or their mother. Sum must not exceed 100.
		pat_grm_name_chance = 25
		mat_grm_name_chance = 25
		mother_name_chance = 0

		modifier = default_culture_modifier
	}
	Georgian = {
		graphical_culture = italiangfx
		
		color = { 0.25 0.5 0.75 }
		
		male_names = {
			Aaren_Aaron Abel_Abel Abrem_Abraham Adem_Adam Aden_Aden Aderi_Adea Alisender_Alexander Amos Andy_Andrew Asher_Asher Benny_Benjamin 
			Belthesse_Belthasar Babylen_Babylon Charley_Charles Christy_Christian Hasper_Casper Calle_Caleb Danny_Dan Danny_Daniel Davey_David Duke_Duke Eddy_Edward Eli_Eli
			Elily_Elijah Manny_Emmanuel Enoch_Enoch Ephry_Ephraim Zecky_Ezekiel Elme_Elmo Helvy_Elvis Erec_Eric Even_Evan Ezra Exode_Exodus Felex_Felix Gabriel_Gabriel Giddy_Gideon Georgy_Georgia 
			Gorden_Gordon Hem_Ham Hebel_Hebel Ire_Ira Isse_Issac Issece_Issachar Jimmy_James Hacob_Jacob Hedediah_Jedidiah Heremiah_Jeremiah Heremy_Jeremy Hess_Jessie
			Hohnny_Johnny Hohnny_John Hoseph_Joseph Hob_Job Hoel_Joel Hoshy_Joshua Honah_Jonah Honathan_Jonathan Hoses_Josias Lazare_Lazarus Lee_Lee Levy_Levi Luke_Luke
			Melachi_Malachi Mar_Mark Matty_Matthew Mel_Melchior Merry_Merv Micky_Micah Micky_Michael Mordy_Mordecai Moses_Moses Nate_Nathan Nehemy_Nehemiah 
			Nicky_Nick Palen_Paul Peter_Peter Phiney_Phineas Reube_Reuben Richy_Richard Sammse_Samson Sammy_Sam Samel_Samuel Siles_Silas Simen_Simon Sincly_Sinclair Solomen_Solomon 
			Stephe_Steve Timmy_Tim Tommy_Thomas Toby_Toby Teny_Tony Ulyes_Ulysses Vergy_Virginia Washenten_Washington Billy_William Wells Wayne 
			Zebby_Zebadiah Zebelen_Zebulun Zedeky_Zedekiah
		}
		female_names = {
			Abigail_Abbey Adina Alana_Alana Adriel_Adriel Alica_Alice Arial_Ariel Anna_Anne Azaria Bethany_Bethany 
			Candace_Candace Charity_Charity Chasitity Chole_Chole Christina_Chrissy
			Deborah_Debby Dawn_Dawn Dinah Eden_Eden Elisha_Elisha Elizabeth_Elisabeth Esther_Esther Eve_Eve
			Faith_Faith Gabriel_Gabriel Gloria_Gloria Grace_Grace Hannah_Hannah Helen_Helen Hester_Hester 
			Hope_Hope Ishtar Joanna_Joan Judith_Judith Julia_Juliet Lara_Luara Leah_Leah Lois_Louisiana Magdalene_Magdalene
			Martha_Martha Mara_Marah Mary_Mary Mercy_Mercy Micaela Miriam_Miriam Naomi_Naomi Nova Oliva_Olive Pharaoh_Pharaoh 
			Phoebe_Phebe Pamela Mariana_Queen Rachel_Rachael Rebecca_Rebecca Rosa_Rose Ruth_Ruth Sama_Sam Sarah_Sarah
			Sharon_Sharon Susaannah_Susan Tamara Unity_Unity
		}
		
		male_patronym = "ese "
		female_patronym = "esa "
		prefix = yes
		
		from_dynasty_prefix = "e "
		bastard_dynasty_prefix = "Ese "
		
		# Chance of male children being named after their paternal or maternal grandfather, or their father. Sum must not exceed 100.
		pat_grf_name_chance = 40
		mat_grf_name_chance = 25
		father_name_chance = 0
		
		# Chance of female children being named after their paternal or maternal grandmother, or their mother. Sum must not exceed 100.
		pat_grm_name_chance = 25
		mat_grm_name_chance = 25
		mother_name_chance = 0

		modifier = default_culture_modifier
	}
}
Meridian = {
	graphical_culture = westerngfx

	Alabaman = {
		graphical_culture = englishgfx
		
		color = { 0.25 0.5 0.75 }
		
		male_names = {
			Aaron_Aaron Abel_Abel Abner Abraham_Abraham Adam_Adam Aden_Aden Alexander_Alexander Amos Andrew_Andrew Asher_Asher Barak Benjamin_Benjamin 
			Belthasar_Belthasar Babylon_Babylon Cain_Cain Christian_Christian Jasper_Casper Caleb_Caleb Dan_Dan Daniel_Daniel David_David Duke_Duke Eleazar Eli_Eli
			Elijah_Elijah Emmanuel_Emmanuel Enoch_Enoch Ephraim_Ephraim Ezekiel_Ezekiel Ezra Exodus_Exodus Gabriel_Gabriel Gideon_Gideon George_Georgia 
			Ham_Ham Hebel_Hebel Ira_Ira Issac_Issac Issachar_Issachar James_James Jacob_Jacob Jairus Jedidiah_Jedidiah Jeremiah_Jeremiah Jeremy_Jeremy Jesse_Jessie
			Johnny_Johnny John_John Joseph_Joseph Job_Job Joel_Joel Joshua_Joshua Jonah_Jonah Jonathan_Jonathan Josias_Josias Lazarus_Lazarus Lee_Lee Levi_Levi Lucas_Luke 
			Luke_Luke Malachi_Malachi Mark_Mark Matthew_Matthew Melchior_Melchior Micah_Micah Michael_Michael Mordecai_Mordecai Moses_Moses Nathenael_Nathan Nehemiah_Nehemiah 
			Nicodemus_Nick Noah_Noah Obadiah_Obadiah Paul_Paul Peter_Peter Phineas_Phineas Reuben_Reuben Samson_Samson Samuel_Samuel Saul_Saul Silas_Silas Simon_Simon Solomon_Solomon 
			Stephen_Steve Timothy_Tim Thomas_Thomas Tobias_Toby Uriah_Uriah Zebadiah_Zebadiah Zebulun_Zebulun Zedekiah_Zedekiah
		}
		female_names = {
			Abigail_Abbey Adina Alana_Alana Adriel_Adriel Alica_Alice Arial_Ariel Anna_Anne Azaria Bethany_Bethany 
			Candace_Candace Charity_Charity Chasitity Chole_Chole Christina_Chrissy
			Deborah_Debby Dawn_Dawn Dinah Eden_Eden Elisha_Elisha Elizabeth_Elisabeth Esther_Esther Eve_Eve
			Faith_Faith Gabriel_Gabriel Gloria_Gloria Grace_Grace Hannah_Hannah Helen_Helen Hester_Hester 
			Hope_Hope Ishtar Joanna_Joan Judith_Judith Julia_Juliet Lara_Luara Leah_Leah Lois_Louisiana Magdalene_Magdalene
			Martha_Martha Mara_Marah Mary_Mary Mercy_Mercy Micaela Miriam_Miriam Naomi_Naomi Nova Oliva_Olive Pharaoh_Pharaoh 
			Phoebe_Phebe Pamela Mariana_Queen Rachel_Rachael Rebecca_Rebecca Rosa_Rose Ruth_Ruth Sama_Sam Sarah_Sarah
			Sharon_Sharon Susaannah_Susan Tamara Unity_Unity
		}
		
		male_patronym = "the son of "
		female_patronym = "the daughter of "
		prefix = yes
		
		from_dynasty_prefix = "of "
		bastard_dynasty_prefix = "soa "
		
		# Chance of male children being named after their paternal or maternal grandfather, or their father. Sum must not exceed 100.
		pat_grf_name_chance = 40
		mat_grf_name_chance = 25
		father_name_chance = 0
		
		# Chance of female children being named after their paternal or maternal grandmother, or their mother. Sum must not exceed 100.
		pat_grm_name_chance = 25
		mat_grm_name_chance = 25
		mother_name_chance = 0

		modifier = default_culture_modifier
	}
	Mississippian = {
		graphical_culture = germangfx
		
		color = { 0.25 0.5 0.75 }
		
		male_names = {
			Aden_Aden Andeser_Andrew Aseh_Asher Benjaman_Benjamin 
			Cana_Cain Critoffer_Christian Daniel_Daniel David_David Duke_Duke
			Elijah_Elijah Emmanuel_Emmanuel Enoch_Enoch Ephraim_Ephraim Ezekiel_Ezekiel Ezra Exodus_Exodus Gabriel_Gabriel Gideon_Gideon George_Georgia 
			Ham_Ham Hebel_Hebel Ira_Ira Issac_Issac Issachar_Issachar James_James Geremiah_Jeremiah
			Johnny_Johnny John_John Joseph_Joseph Job_Job Joel_Joel Joshua_Joshua Jonah_Jonah Jonathan_Jonathan Josias_Josias Lazarus_Lazarus Lee_Lee Levi_Levi Lucas_Luke 
			Luke_Luke Malachi_Malachi Mark_Mark Matthew_Matthew Melchior_Melchior Micah_Micah Michael_Michael Mordecai_Mordecai Moses_Moses Nathenael_Nathan Nehemiah_Nehemiah 
			Nicodemus_Nick Noah_Noah Obadiah_Obadiah Paul_Paul Peter_Peter Phineas_Phineas Reuben_Reuben Samson_Samson Samuel_Samuel Saul_Saul Silas_Silas Simon_Simon Tim_Tim Tom_Thomas
		}
		female_names = {
			Abigail_Abbey Adina Alana_Alana Adriel_Adriel Alica_Alice Arial_Ariel Anna_Anne Azaria Bethany_Bethany 
			Candace_Candace Charity_Charity Chasitity Chole_Chole Christina_Chrissy
			Deborah_Debby Dawn_Dawn Dinah Eden_Eden Elisha_Elisha Elizabeth_Elisabeth Esther_Esther Eve_Eve
			Faith_Faith Gabriel_Gabriel Gloria_Gloria Grace_Grace Hannah_Hannah Helen_Helen Hester_Hester 
			Hope_Hope Ishtar Joanna_Joan Judith_Judith Julia_Juliet Lara_Luara Leah_Leah Lois_Louisiana Magdalene_Magdalene
			Martha_Martha Mara_Marah Mary_Mary Mercy_Mercy Micaela Miriam_Miriam Naomi_Naomi Nova Oliva_Olive Pharaoh_Pharaoh 
			Phoebe_Phebe Pamela Mariana_Queen Rachel_Rachael Rebecca_Rebecca Rosa_Rose Ruth_Ruth Sama_Sam Sarah_Sarah
			Sharon_Sharon Susaannah_Susan Tamara Unity_Unity
		}
		
		male_patronym = "sou"
		female_patronym = "sou "
		prefix = yes
		
		from_dynasty_prefix = "soff "
		bastard_dynasty_prefix = "sos "
		
		# Chance of male children being named after their paternal or maternal grandfather, or their father. Sum must not exceed 100.
		pat_grf_name_chance = 40
		mat_grf_name_chance = 25
		father_name_chance = 0
		
		# Chance of female children being named after their paternal or maternal grandmother, or their mother. Sum must not exceed 100.
		pat_grm_name_chance = 25
		mat_grm_name_chance = 25
		mother_name_chance = 0

		modifier = default_culture_modifier
	}
}

With some i havent changed at all yet but will, and i think more diversity [not just the same names in different forms but different names] will be key. But for a first go its alright. I havent even started on made-up names yet, which there ought to be quite a few for each culture.
So far all ive dont is the south of north america. As Alabaman christian fundamentalists taking their education from the bible over the long centuries is being used as a device to allow the language to have anything in common with todays. But eventually i, or someone else, will go through it and alter the names alittle there as well as this is just a first draft.
If you want to start on the Maritime or Plains cultures then you can do whatever you want to as the distance would be enough to make it as from french to polish, no whatever looks the best way to do it reguardless of what ive already done in the south probably would be as long as no one else especially wants that bit.

North American Culture Groups

Thrid Wave = { The peoples descended almost exclusively from plains nomads who invade in the century of the mods start
Ozark = { ruling class of Ozark and Texarkana horde, settled on the borders of the plains and settled barbarian population west of it }
Indianan = { ruling class and settled peoples in Indiana, can raise Horde Archers }
Plainsmen = { The exclusively [in starting condition] barbarian culture of the nomadic plains, can raise horse archers }
Someothername = { melting pot culture to be born out of Ozarks and Plainsmen ruling meridians or visa-versa and assimilating into something new. }
}
Meridian = { The peoples descended from a mixture of plains nomads (second wave) who migrated into civilised america three-fourish centuries ago, the natives of the regions they occupy and east coasters having melting potted long ago
Mississippian = { The peoples of the river, primarily a province culture along the length of the river }
Arkansan = { Civilised and sedimentary people west of the river, maybe consolidated into Louisianan or Mississippian }
Alabaman = { The peoples of the Kingdom of Alabama }
Louisianan = { the peoples of the two lousianas and surrounding region }
High_Meridian = { Rulers and peoples of the West of the mountains USA }
}
Carolinian = { The peoples of the south-east coast and the kingdoms therein
Carolinian = { The ruling class and majority of provinces of the State of the Carolinas and ruling class of Georgia and Orlando.} (French)
Georgian = { The culture of the provinces and counts of the de jure State/kingdom of Georgia and the eastern edge of Alabama.} (Occitan)
Transappalacian = { The peoples and rulers of the east coast USA} {maybe its own culture group with virginian and ? cultures in }
}
Maritime = { The peoples of the north-east coast.
Maritime = {}
Quebecois = { the peoples of the St-lawrence, maybe better in their own, one culture, culture group}
}
Interior = {
Ontarian = {The people of Ontario and the Lakes}
..etc..

htilden42 · Mar 25, 2012

Is anyone doing work on the map? Not so much the general layout, but the actual "provinces.bmp" and stuff like that.

If no one is working on that right now, I'd be interested in helping out with that. I've done some off-and-on map modding with Victoria II and EU3, so I'm somewhat familiar with the process. The only thing I'm unfamiliar with is the height map/greyscale terrain thing, if we're going to end up using that.

Thure · Mar 25, 2012

What is with other cultures? As Cultare German-American. So there can be other too. Irish-American.

LolCakeLazors · Mar 25, 2012

For the names, I think having less "religious"/biblical names in the North-east with more religious type of names increasing while you move South and West.

It would make sense as the SE as well as the southern-central part of the United States today is considered the bible belt.

And maybe some conflict between religion in the United States section?
The South tended to be more Baptist than Catholic while the North is dominated by Catholics.
Think of how Northern Germany was Protestant after the Reformation while Southern Germany stayed to the Catholic faith but still was joined together as the HRE.

Not sure if this is what you're thinking, just a few ideas to add to the whole idea of civilizations basing their ideals off of "old-era" religions.

ulrichomega · Mar 25, 2012

I posted in the other thread that I'd already done some work on a map of my own. It's nothing pretty, and it's far more focused on modern borders than you'd probably want, and I'm not happy with New England or New Jersey, but it might be useful. Here it is. The only part that I'd finished happened to overlap with your map. The provinces are roughly arranged by color into de jure duchies.

What needs to be done? I'd be more than happy to lend a hand on stuff outside the map, and even more on the map itself if you like the stuff I'd already done.

Comrade Chaos · Mar 26, 2012

I really don't think the South is as "Bible Belt-y" as people are led to believe. And I say that as a Yankee.

Arcvalons · Mar 26, 2012

I think the provinces should have cool-sounding latin(ish) names.

Orinsul · Mar 26, 2012

ulrichomega said:
I posted in the other thread that I'd already done some work on a map of my own. It's nothing pretty, and it's far more focused on modern borders than you'd probably want, and I'm not happy with New England or New Jersey, but it might be useful. Here it is. The only part that I'd finished happened to overlap with your map. The provinces are roughly arranged by color into de jure duchies.

What needs to be done? I'd be more than happy to lend a hand on stuff outside the map, and even more on the map itself if you like the stuff I'd already done.

Hey that looks awesome! at the very lease itd work great as a foundation, as borders and etc can always be shifted and provinces can always be added or tweaked after the fact but getting an up and running version is at this point far more important than a concept perfect one. If you look to have a go at the map then thatd be awesome!
Basically at this point if you want to do it then do and just however you think is best, but the maps and concept ideas above are there if you need ideas and then once theres a test version out specifics of province layout and balance and asethic concerns and etc can be worried about but mostly they cant even be considered without anything to look at first.

Arcvalons said:
I think the provinces should have cool-sounding latin(ish) names.

Maybe in south america, where the common language is romantic so alot of latinish language would make it through, but for the north itd probably be best to go with corruptions of towns or rivers in the area or fictional names modeled after however the personal names language for that area goes.

Comrade Chaos said:
I really don't think the South is as "Bible Belt-y" as people are led to believe. And I say that as a Yankee.

For this setting really only one town needs to be, its not a commentary on current american anything, mostly its an in-narrative justification for the survival of the english language in a recognisable form and also because bibical names are cool and brings an old-westy or revolutionary feel to the names, so being both familiar English and feeling american, to ground the setting, while the other titles will be drifted and unrecognisable english and feel alien and foreign to the player.
Its in alabama as thats vaguely england in the political set-up, i.e. the balance and claim rival to france [carolina]. Although of course only a vague equivalent as probably there are more differents than similarities, so it seemed the right place for the english speaking country. It might well have been anywhere.

As to religion in North America, i would see it as a tolerant, private religion society, where theres ten denominations in every village and its more or less entirely irrelevant. A private thing like family traditions or a hobby but with no place in the political or public life of the people or state as opposed to the latin catholic society where it is part of every aspect of life and seen as the most important part of it and that being one of the major differences that make each society incomprehensible to the other.
So there would be great 'religious' differences between the regions of north america, even between baronies, but they wouldnt amount to anything that would have any effect on the game. Maybe fodder for a couple flavour events or something.

With names, biblical names really only common in the south, where the influence of alabama has kept them alive, spread alittle bit north into the US[Empire] by the Meridians but as a minority of names, and then only surviving in very different forms as you get away from it, having no connection to the bible but just from having been in the ten most popular names lists and etc and from having continued the whole way through being nearly unrecognisable to the player if it wasnt for the X_John or whatever in the culture file.

Thanks to everyone who has expressed an interest in this project!

Calantyr · Mar 26, 2012

You could have the Mongol hordes being re-colonisation from Europe. Perhaps they recovered faster? This would keep with the theme of history repeating.

dauncosony · Mar 26, 2012

Thure said:
What is with other cultures? As Cultare German-American. So there can be other too. Irish-American.

I think cultures are best represented by the different American Cultures there are, like Tex-Mex, New English, NorCal and SoCal, etc. This game is about North America and probably centuries after the identity of having German/Irish/Polish/Mexican/Chinese heritage isn't all that important.

A little something the modders can check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America

Arcvalons · Mar 27, 2012

I added forty mexican provinces to the previous map. Not sure if they are to little, but it might be better for balancing (unless you want Mexico to be as strong as the east coast). There's always baronies, which could better represent population density

Phoenix Fire: The American Post Apocolyptic Mod

Absent Minded

Absent Minded

Absent Minded

Major

Absent Minded

Second Lieutenant

Field Marshal

Absent Minded

Second Lieutenant

Absent Minded

Captain

Chartularius Hamburgensis

Second Lieutenant

Colonel

Husky

Field Marshal

Absent Minded

Perfection Personified

Colonel

Field Marshal