+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 44

Thread: What can u do when your vassal is at war with another vassal of yours?

  1. #21
    General nyah's Avatar
    Achtung PanzerCities in MotionCities in Motion 2Crusader Kings IICommander: Conquest of the Americas
    Deus VultEast India Company CollectionEuropa Universalis: ChroniclesEU3 CompleteDivine Wind
    For the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourEuropa Universalis III: In NomineLead and Gold
    LegioThe Kings CrusadeMagickaMajesty 2March of the Eagles
    EU3 Napoleon's AmbitionNaval War: Arctic CircleVictoria: RevolutionsEuropa Universalis: RomeSemper Fi
    SengokuSupreme Ruler 2020 GoldSupreme Ruler: Cold WarVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided
    Victoria II: Heart of DarknessRome: Vae VictisMount & Blade: WarbandMount & Blade: With Fire and SwordWar of the Roses
    Pride of NationsRise of PrussiaCK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order
    Crusader Kings II: Legacy of RomeCrusader Kings II: Sword of IslamCrusader Kings II: The RepublicCrusader Kings II: The Old GodsCrusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
    Crusader Kings II: Rajas of IndiaCrusader Kings II: Charlemagne

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    Posts
    1,831
    Why does it matter if your vassals fight each other?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Cniht View Post
    I don't have that save anymore, but It took no more then a month after my latest save to give you one better. I give you Duke on Duke hawtness. Mid-Crown Authority is not working as WAD. It's just not working.

    Attachment 50963
    What you've got here is a picture of the Duke of Somerset not giving a damn about Brythain's crown authority, which is exactly how it's supposed to work. If you'll take a look at England's crown authority instead, I'm sure you'll find it to be below medium.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyah View Post
    Why does it matter if your vassals fight each other?
    It ties up troops that you could use for something else.
    I could do that with my eyes tied behind my back!

  3. #23
    Colonel Diet of Worms's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis 3For the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionNaval War: Arctic Circle
    Europa Universalis: RomeSemper FiSengokuVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided
    Rome: Vae VictisPride of NationsCK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Home of Perfidy
    Posts
    973
    Quote Originally Posted by nyah View Post
    Why does it matter if your vassals fight each other?
    Quote Originally Posted by Razalhague View Post
    It ties up troops that you could use for something else.
    And leads to super-dukes since they can accumulate territory quicker when they can use war as well as marriage.

    That said I've played a couple of games where I've kept low crown authority and it is by no means impossible to deal with, and it kind of feels more medieval to me having all these private wars going on You just need to be ready to administer the smack down. I found myself building up dukes who were in gavelkind to fight the elective ones, since the gavelkind crowd take care of themselves after a while...

  4. #24
    Duke of Middle Italy Tempestra's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDarkest HourEuropa Universalis 3Hearts of Iron IIIHeir to the Throne
    Europa Universalis III: In NomineCK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Fellinn
    Posts
    1,752
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
    In CK1 you could declare war on your liege, or another vassal in the kindgom, but the king / duke or whoever had control of the realm would also come to their defense. IMO that makes more sense.
    No way, this was one of the biggest problems of CK 1 IMHO. There was literally no way for a King to not get involved in a war between his vassals, while historically it was very common for a King's attitude to be "let them sort it out". Indeed, at low crown authority the King intervening in such a struggle would be seen as acting tyrannically.

    It might be nice if there was some event driven way for a King to covertly favour one side or another, and perhaps at higher crown authority levels he should have the option to intervene, albeit at a Prestige cost and with a relationship penalty. But the CK 1 system of compulsory royal involvement? No, that sucked.

  5. #25
    Duke of Middle Italy Tempestra's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDarkest HourEuropa Universalis 3Hearts of Iron IIIHeir to the Throne
    Europa Universalis III: In NomineCK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Fellinn
    Posts
    1,752
    Quote Originally Posted by Diet of Worms View Post
    And leads to super-dukes since they can accumulate territory quicker when they can use war as well as marriage.
    Quite a realistic problem though - the "mighty vassals" were a perennial problem for medieval rulers, who had limited opportunities to stomp on the Dukes who behaved this way.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by nyah View Post
    Why does it matter if your vassals fight each other?
    You cant change succession laws while they are fighting. AWFUL in a large Kingdom/Empire.

    Can I somehow get notified when noone is fighting and I could change the succession law? Watching 10 years on the law screen would be boring.

  7. #27
    Colonel Diet of Worms's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis 3For the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionNaval War: Arctic Circle
    Europa Universalis: RomeSemper FiSengokuVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided
    Rome: Vae VictisPride of NationsCK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Home of Perfidy
    Posts
    973
    Quote Originally Posted by Tempestra View Post
    No way, this was one of the biggest problems of CK 1 IMHO. There was literally no way for a King to not get involved in a war between his vassals
    And IIRC, if you attacked a count who was a vassal of a duke in the same kingdom, his duke would attack you to protect him, then the king would attack his duke to protect you

    There may be a few kinks in CK2, but CK1 was on a whole other level...

  8. #28
    Colonel Rambo's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis 3For the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: Revolutions
    Semper FiSengokuVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedWar of the Roses
    CK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    I think I have lived in every continent on earth, with the exception of antarctica.
    Posts
    904
    Quote Originally Posted by Tempestra View Post
    No way, this was one of the biggest problems of CK 1 IMHO. There was literally no way for a King to not get involved in a war between his vassals, while historically it was very common for a King's attitude to be "let them sort it out". Indeed, at low crown authority the King intervening in such a struggle would be seen as acting tyrannically.
    I would bet there were a lot more times historically that a king chose to get involved rather than not get involved. Why would a king sit back and watch a duke conquer half his kingdom? Sorry, I really doubt that.

    It is one thing if you are the HRE and a small duke is waring with another small duke. It is another thing entirely if you are king of Sicily and the duke of Sicily gets a claim on the Duke of Apuia or another duchy, and decides to take his duchy. When you have kingdoms that are only 2 or 3 duchies. Now you have a duke that could end up being much stronger than the King.
    Find me in WOTR "Cascinova"

  9. #29
    Field Marshal No idea's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMarch of the EaglesSemper FiVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessMount & Blade: Warband500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Somewhere around the Universe...
    Posts
    2,892
    Quote Originally Posted by cniht View Post
    medium crown authority is suppose to stop inter-realm wars.

    However it's fubar and doesn't work appropriately.
    this

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by No idea View Post
    this
    Quoting a wrong statement, doesn't make it right.

  11. #31
    Games Player steveh11's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDivine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest Hour
    Heir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionRome GoldSemper Fi
    SengokuVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessCK2: Holy Knight
    EU3 Collectors Edition500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-orderAncient Space

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    EU, EU2, CK, Vicky, HOI, HOI2, et al...
    Posts
    1,926
    To be honest, I think the Crown Authority system is working fine - excpet that, as King, I should have the ability to intervene.
    As thing currently stand, I don't. This seems wrong. I can't even 'lend' troops to one of the factions!
    "Nature always obeys her own laws"
    - Leonardo da Vinci

  12. #32
    Duke of Middle Italy Tempestra's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDarkest HourEuropa Universalis 3Hearts of Iron IIIHeir to the Throne
    Europa Universalis III: In NomineCK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Fellinn
    Posts
    1,752
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
    I would bet there were a lot more times historically that a king chose to get involved rather than not get involved. Why would a king sit back and watch a duke conquer half his kingdom? Sorry, I really doubt that.
    Because he lacked a legal pretext to get involved that wouldn't anger all of his vassals with the (possible) exception of the one he was helping.

    The Lords of the HRE fought each other often and the Emperors didn't intervene. The Norman conquests inside France were not opposed by the French Kings. The Hungarian King wasn't able to stop conflicts between the magnates. And so on.

  13. #33
    I think the vassal which went to war with another none had rightful claim on each other. ...


    Quote Originally Posted by The Blood Eagle View Post
    Remember that the AI is plotting and scheming to gain power even under your rule. They aren't just mindless vassals that are on standby waiting for you orders.

    Or you could just do what I do and make your primary heir the title holder to ALL your non-demesne holdings. It's nice having him already have 10k prestige when you die
    You can do that?? The process would be long and agonizing I figured unless u had only a few non demense holdings to begin with.
    Last edited by Mighty Heart; 26-03-2012 at 13:32.
    "A society that robs an individual of the product of his effort, or enslaves him, or attempts to limit the freedom of his mind, or compels him to act against his own rational judgment-a society that sets up a conflict between its edicts and the requirements of man's nature-is not, strictly speaking, a society, but a mob held together by institutionalized gang-rule. Such a society destroys all the values of human coexistence, has no possible justification and represents not a source of benefits, but the deadliest threat to man's survival" -Ayn Rand. Read about the nature of Singapore regime on 'exposingsingapore' blog

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
    It is one thing if you are the HRE and a small duke is waring with another small duke. It is another thing entirely if you are king of Sicily and the duke of Sicily gets a claim on the Duke of Apuia or another duchy, and decides to take his duchy. When you have kingdoms that are only 2 or 3 duchies. Now you have a duke that could end up being much stronger than the King.
    Except both Dukes are vassals of the King. How can the King justify interfering without tacitly saying that he doesn't accept one of his own Dukes? Which ought to make one of those Dukes therefore not his liege anymore and so independent.

    We as gamers may want to prevent a Duke from being powerful, a King wouldn't send troops against his own Duke to do that though unless it was a revolution.
    Grandson of Lodbrok's Merchant Republic - A Norse CK2 Republic AAR.

    Virgin Resources - A British AAR (Original Vicky AAR idea, no longer developed)

  15. #35
    Colonel Diet of Worms's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis 3For the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionNaval War: Arctic Circle
    Europa Universalis: RomeSemper FiSengokuVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided
    Rome: Vae VictisPride of NationsCK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Home of Perfidy
    Posts
    973
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
    I would bet there were a lot more times historically that a king chose to get involved rather than not get involved. Why would a king sit back and watch a duke conquer half his kingdom? Sorry, I really doubt that.
    But the king has plenty of tools. You can imprison, revoke and banish. No duke can stand against you if you want to stop him and are strong enough to deal with him if he revolts.

    If you wanted to give the king even more options, like being able to unilaterally intervene with his own forces, you'd need to weaken them significantly somehow since kings being too weak is not one of the problems the game has.

  16. #36
    Field Marshal No idea's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMarch of the EaglesSemper FiVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessMount & Blade: Warband500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Somewhere around the Universe...
    Posts
    2,892
    Quote Originally Posted by barny View Post
    Quoting a wrong statement, doesn't make it right.
    Medium CA is either not WAI or we are not told that there are exceptions to the "non figthing among vassals allowed" rule. I have reported in the bugs forums my particular case: I am King of France. The Duke of Britanny is my vassal. I own Rennes, which I give to my son and heir. A month (more or less) after giving the county away the Duke of Britain declares war on the Count of Rennes (and only on the count, not on me. He was not rebelling or declaring independence) using the Ducal Claim CB. AFAIK, this is not suppoused to happen under Medium CA.

  17. #37
    Second Lieutenant Tikinaattori's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEU3 CompleteDivine WindHearts of Iron III
    Heir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis: RomeSengokuSupreme Ruler: Cold WarSupreme Ruler 2020
    Victoria 2

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    150
    I agree, that in most cases king should not intervene, but if any of his children ( lets say crown prince of England is attacked by Duke of York ), king should have right to join defensive wars.

  18. #38
    Field Marshal Nick B II's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis III: In Nomine

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Detroit, USA
    Posts
    4,409
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
    I think it should be fixed, it doesnt make sense that an emperor or King would allow his kingdom to basically erupt into civil war, and say "well theres nothing i can do about it, they are not my direct vassals". No wars, should mean no wars, period.
    I think you're mistaken here. Yes, today that's true, but back in CK2's timeframe most of Europe didn't war as Absolutely the Worst Possible Thing That Could Ever Happen. They saw war as a force for good, and something every nobleman had the right to do. The Kings of France, for example, simply could not stop William the Conquerer from seizing Anjou.

    In other words in countries with low Crown Authority the King intervening in a private war would be analogous to the modern Democracy intervening to stop protests against a State/Provinces/Whatever's Governor/Premier/Whatever. In both cases you have the top-level liege trying to protect a lower-tier political unit from people trying to exercise their rights.

    @No idea:
    Brittany isn't de jure part of France. It's de jure part of that weird Wales-Cornwall-Brittany Kingdom the devs added in the latest patch. It's called Brythain or something like that.

    Which means French Crown Laws only apply if that weird-named kingdom has not been created.

    Nick

  19. #39
    Field Marshal No idea's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMarch of the EaglesSemper FiVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessMount & Blade: Warband500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Somewhere around the Universe...
    Posts
    2,892
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick B II View Post
    I think you're mistaken here. Yes, today that's true, but back in CK2's timeframe most of Europe didn't war as Absolutely the Worst Possible Thing That Could Ever Happen. They saw war as a force for good, and something every nobleman had the right to do. The Kings of France, for example, simply could not stop William the Conquerer from seizing Anjou.

    In other words in countries with low Crown Authority the King intervening in a private war would be analogous to the modern Democracy intervening to stop protests against a State/Provinces/Whatever's Governor/Premier/Whatever. In both cases you have the top-level liege trying to protect a lower-tier political unit from people trying to exercise their rights.

    @No idea:
    Brittany isn't de jure part of France. It's de jure part of that weird Wales-Cornwall-Brittany Kingdom the devs added in the latest patch. It's called Brythain or something like that.

    Which means French Crown Laws only apply if that weird-named kingdom has not been created.

    Nick
    Thank you, now I see where the "problem" was.

  20. #40
    Field Marshal Nick B II's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis III: In Nomine

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Detroit, USA
    Posts
    4,409
    Quote Originally Posted by Tikinaattori View Post
    I agree, that in most cases king should not intervene, but if any of his children ( lets say crown prince of England is attacked by Duke of York ), king should have right to join defensive wars.
    I thought you got a family alliance with your children, and if you're playing smart (ie: you didn't marry matrilinearly while playing a dude, and you did marry matrilinearly while playing a chick) you also get a dynastic alliance with them.

    I don't think this gives you a valid CB on the dude trying to bully your kid, but it certainly means your kid has the right to call you into the fight by calling his allies.

    Which means you probably have an unrealistic amount of power to end that war, especially early in the period. Since it was a private war you should only be able to use troops from counties you personally own.

    Nick

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts