RTG MOD for DW -Balance/New Navies/Advisors/Policies/Modestus Map/Add ons

[redgreen99]

Oh I see, Yea provinces are told which tag they belong. I'll double check the history by BYZ. But actually, normal history and alternate history share the same province history info. How alternate starts are set up is, the countries have a normal set up on say 1475.1.1 So TUR might own province X on in 1475.1.1 then the alternate scenario start changes province X to be owned by BYZ on 1475.1.3 then history returns to normal timelines and ownership returns to TUR for province X on 1475. 1.5 Then the ALT book mark is set for 1475.1.3 With normal history book marks perhaps 1475.1.1 and again in 1488.1.1. If you just click a bookmark for normal history, the history will look "normal" , for Alternate it would be completely differnent. So if your scrolling thoru day by day or perhaps every decade, you occasionally are seeing the alternate history events that are set for specfic days. THey both share the map so scrolling thru all dates might look a bit off.

History only gets loaded up to the point of game start, thats how its able to work for both historical and alternate start times. For a normal history start, the changes in ownership for later alternate changes, never get loaded, and visa versa for alternate starts. I'll still check it out to be sure, but chances are these anomilies coincide with alternate book marks, or one or 2 days after.

EDIT - I think I'll move the ALT history book marks back to the bottom. I can see where going thru the bookmarks by start date would be a bit misleading.

All good feedback

[redgreen99]

Nono. What I mean was that Byzantium has things in its borders that don't seem to belong there, but I'm not sure about that, but I still think that its just because Vonland was made for a different map. While modding, you don't tell the country which provinces it has, but the province to which country it belongs, right? I think that's where the error might lie.; AND Byzantium somehow becomes to big after a while while fast forwarding "regular" ingame history, while still in the selection screen, instead of vanishing. If I'm understanding correctly how stuff works, THIS error has nothing to do with an alternate start at all.

I finally got to take a better look at what was going on, didn't quite understand what you meant at first. I think what happened regarding alternate events, is when I added in new provinces I didn't relize that area was part of the alternate history set up. Therefore I only gave the new provinces standerd history tags for ownership while the alternate history gnerally has 2 extra tag control switches involved. Thus the surrounded TIM provence and a few stray TUK provinces and whatnot.

This is a royal pain when adding events and working with alternate histories to this extent. It sometimes doubles the time for updating/adding province histories. I may simply pull them as they are a bit nackered atm. I only have so much time and the main history timeline is the priority. Though if its just 3 or 4 provinces, that wouldn't be too involved to fix. I'll look at it again, working on an India mod atm.

Actually not sure how I missed these stray provinces, cause when I add provinces I generally cut and paste history from a neighbor province and then edit. I suspect I removed some cores for these by mistake when fixing errors. There are errors that don't really need fixing. They read something like TUR has a core in province 1950 even though it has not owned the province long enough. I actually removed every single error listed for histories up to 1399 in debug mode. I just don't like errors, even insignificant ones. Alternate histories tend to create these small errors because of 3 ownership changes within 3 days.

UPDATE -Ugh, it looks as though I need to edit over 500 history files to correct this problem. It looks as though I used some alt history files that never went back to a normal timeline. Basically say good bye to alternate scenarios in the next update. Except the very basic Iberian one. Its a bit hard at time combining mods as I don't always know what direction a mod went until someone points things like this out to me. It would take me longer to figure out all the tags involved in this then it would to wipe it clean.
By wiping it I mean restoring it to traditional history.

[rkb53]

Been thoroughly enjoying this mod, but there are some problems ive ran into.
1:When a rebellion brakes out the tech level of the rebels ive been encounter has been vastly higher. I assume so anyway as I'm attacking with 30 regiments against 5 and losing every single battle.
2:Playing as England and forming the UK i noticed I'm not eligible for becoming the HRE, is this supposed to happen?
3:I know the countries are supposed to have their local names, but I don't know many of the countries localized names, its quite disorientating for me. Is there anyway to disable that feature?

Otherwise its pretty damn fun.

[CyberEagle]

Been thoroughly enjoying this mod, but there are some problems ive ran into.
1:When a rebellion brakes out the tech level of the rebels ive been encounter has been vastly higher. I assume so anyway as I'm attacking with 30 regiments against 5 and losing every single battle.

This. A thousand times this. I tried Vinland again and, well, regular rebels seem to tech at 100%, a bug that I was already aware of. But religious ones? Those guys are two bloody damn AGES more advanced than me.

[redgreen99]

Been thoroughly enjoying this mod, but there are some problems ive ran into.
1:When a rebellion brakes out the tech level of the rebels ive been encounter has been vastly higher. I assume so anyway as I'm attacking with 30 regiments against 5 and losing every single battle.
2:Playing as England and forming the UK i noticed I'm not eligible for becoming the HRE, is this supposed to happen?
3:I know the countries are supposed to have their local names, but I don't know many of the countries localized names, its quite disorientating for me. Is there anyway to disable that feature?

Otherwise its pretty damn fun.

1: I'll have to look into the OP rebels. It isn't anything I intentionally set up. Might be a bit before I can locate if its from a modifier and just a typo in rebels file.

2: I'll look into this. Did you start in 1337? It might not be enbabled until later.

3: To disable alternate names, simple go to Europa Universalis III\mod\RTG_ver_1_2\localisation and delete the
0_Localized_Country_Names.csv file. Or if you just want to tweak the names, open that file in notpad and change whatever names you want. Just be sure to back up and don't mess with the number of ;;;;;;;;;; after the entries. I may make this an alternate install later on.

[redgreen99]

This. A thousand times this. I tried Vinland again and, well, regular rebels seem to tech at 100%, a bug that I was already aware of. But religious ones? Those guys are two bloody damn AGES more advanced than me.

I'll make the rebel issue a priority as its messing up balance. Hoping its something simple. Spent a few hours today sorting out the history that was nackered after 1480. Almost got it resolved, but this is lower priority because it only affects starts after 1480. Well try to get an update in 3 days.

[redgreen99]

I had a quick look at the rebels. Is there a way to tell there tech level? I didn't encounter any problems. Granted only did 2 battles against stacks of 4000 early on playing as England. I sent 8000 for 1st battle, 7000 for 2nd battle and won easily. Rebels were pretenders in 1 case and nationalist in another iirc.

The thing is, all rebel settings are stock accept the addition of imperial city rebels which are titled Secularists. The settings on these are not any higher then most of the stock ones thouhg. here is the code"

imperial_city_rebels = {

	area = nation 				# Stays within the nation
	government = imperial_city	# Desires the secularization of the Theocracy		
	defection = none			# Does not defect
	independence = none			# Does not strive for independence
	unit_transfer = yes
	
	resilient = yes
	reinforcing = yes
	general = yes
	smart = yes
	
	artillery = 0.1
	infantry = 0.6
	cavalry = 0.3
	
	 
 	}

The ratings here are comparable to stock. artillery = 0.1 , infantry = 0.6, cavalry = 0.3
Perhaps this is what makes then tough:
resilient = yes
reinforcing = yes
general = yes
smart = yes

I'd really need to know which type of rebels are to tough. Are they Secularists?

The only other thing I did, is by default rebel is not assigned a unit in Rebels.txt for countries. THe game auto assigns
western_medieval_infantry. THis actually show up in debug mode. So I went ahead and just assigne units in Rebels.txt
cause I like to remove all errors from debug, even trivial ones. I would think though that western_medieval_infantry would still be the unit pulled. However its possible its picking one of the others. When I tested I commented this out. I'll retest with them active, and also try removing all but western_medieval_infantry from the list. I did something similar with natives and pirates also. If its not this, then it must be Secularists, that is all that is changed as far as rebels go.
historical_units = {
#western_medieval_infantry
#western_medieval_knights
#western_men_at_arms
#italian_condotta
#austrian_tercio
#austrian_grenzer
#austrian_hussar
#austrian_white_coat
#austrian_jaeger
#mixed_order_infantry
#open_order_cavalry
#napoleonic_square
#napoleonic_lancers
}

Regarding England not being able to join the HRE, they can't in stock game either. THier provinces are set to hre = no. I think hre is limited to the historical german map area, perhaps including some of northern Italy/Austria and such. Doing a search for hre= yes within all province histories would give more precise info.
I'm not sure, but if a country counquers provinces that are set to hre = yes, it might then be able to join the HRE. I don't often play hre countries. I'm usually in Iberia some where. Maybe someone else can confirm this.

UPDATE - After testing those historical units for Rebels both active and commented out, the results were the same. At 2 to 1 odds rebels defeated fairly easily. Had a group across the channel and only 6 transports. So at first it was 6000 vs 6000. I was losing until I brought 6000 more with transport, then won against patriots, which are generally tougher.

It could be something else. For example, in stock Cavarly and infantry have the same speed. However I changed that, infantry is slightly slower now. Speed of 0.9 versus cav's speed of 1.1 Cavalry generally sucks now in DW if only a cav force is used. But I wanted an option for if you have enough cav you can "outflank" a retreating unit and get the defense bonus. However, if you don't have your inf and cav units combined and simply select seperate armies to advance on the enemy. Your cav units will arrive 1st piecemeal and the one bad tendency of the game is, if you lose a battle, and then just a second or so later your e=infantry arrive, the game seems to calulate the infantry as a loss from the battle a second earlier insted of starting a new battle.

This is one way to lose even when having superior numbers. Actually a lot of battles where lost when arnies had a 30000 to 7000 manpower advantage. Always be sure to combine your cav and infatry forces/ except in specific situations when you absolutely need them to arrive first for reinforcements. I need to write a manual to note some of these changes.

I just am not seeing the OP rebel issue yet. Fought a dozen rebel battles, not counting ping ponging ones. If you can take a screen of or make unit of which rebel type. I have not gotten secularists yet.

Sorry about the typos, instead of correcting them all, my time is better spent modding.

UPDATE 2 -
Basically I think the rebels may be tough early because they have leaders and the player probably doesn't. Here are things that might help.
1: Use the monarch as a leader. This may only apply to England/France and SPain atm. Those are the only 3 with monarch histories added, though the game will always creat a ruler. I've noticed that the game tends to kill off the 1st monarch after a few years anyways, so may as will try him as a leader.
2: Make sure your cavalry units and infantry are merged into 1 army so they move together. Other wise they may arrive piecemeal. If enough people don't like cav and inf having different speeds, I could change that.
3: Make sure your moral is maxed before attacking and sometimes you can catch the rebels with low moral just after they attacked the fort.
4: Until you get enough prestige to get a decent leader, pick advisors that help disciple/morale/ recruit speed/ or lower revolt risk.

[kepler]

Regarding England not being able to join the HRE, they can't in stock game either. THier provinces are set to hre = no. I think hre is limited to the historical german map area, perhaps including some of northern Italy/Austria and such. Doing a search for hre= yes within all province histories would give more precise info.
I'm not sure, but if a country counquers provinces that are set to hre = yes, it might then be able to join the HRE. I don't often play hre countries. I'm usually in Iberia some where. Maybe someone else can confirm this.

Mmm, it should be possible for outsider as well to become Emperor. Is the government considered a monarchy? Is the ruler a male? Both conditions must be verified to be eligible.

[CyberEagle]

UPDATE 2 -
Basically I think the rebels may be tough early because they have leaders and the player probably doesn't.

*cough*

rebelsfromthefuture.jpg

Has been like this ever since rebels first started popping up. Heretics are the same. Not sure about Peasants, but I think these too. Nationalists, Paticularists and Patriots work as they should

[redgreen99]

*cough*

Attachment 53551

Has been like this ever since rebels first started popping up. Heretics are the same. Not sure about Peasants, but I think these too. Nationalists, Paticularists and Patriots work as they should

Well for now try deleting the rebel_types.txt in Europa Universalis III\mod\RTG_ver_1_2\common folder. Make sure your deleting rebel_types.txt for the mod and not the vanilla game. There are only a few changes in that file. Deleting the mod version would make the game simply use the stock version of that file. If this solves it, then its something in the modded file.

As it happens, I've only had Nationalists, Particularists, Patriots and Peasants so far. Peasants work ok.

There may be an event that is pulling from the added secularist rebels, but will cross that bridge when we come to it.

[redgreen99]

Mmm, it should be possible for outsider as well to become Emperor. Is the government considered a monarchy? Is the ruler a male? Both conditions must be verified to be eligible.

I think he was referring to joining the HRE. Now I'm not that familiar with how the HRE works but wouldn't the ability to join the HRE be seperate from being elected? Does one need to be a member to be elected emperor? I did check a stock game and ENG was not able to join at a 1399 game start either. I think its all fine as I didn't do anything regarding HRE setup.

[CyberEagle]

The problem with England is, that one has to add his capital as an imperial province to join; and to add a province, it has to be adjacent to another imperial province. For some reason, connections per sea don't count for that, though.
That's a vanilla problem, by the way.

[redgreen99]

Yea so basically it sounds like England would have to move its capital to the mainland at some point to join the HRE.

Regarding the too tough rebels, I think I found the problem. While no settings were changed within rebel_types.txt I had added in new goverments specific to the mod relating to a factor that increases chance for a rebel type to get pulled. This isn't the problem directly, but I just noticed that when I did that I must have deleted a bracket by mistake. There are hundreds of brackets in this file, so hard to locate it.

For now deleting rebel_types.txt (mod version of the file only as instructed in post 70 of this thread) should resolve this. I will include the correction in the mod in the next update that also includes the secularist rebels which the mod needs at some point.

Thanks rkb53 and CyberEagle for help pinpointing this. I still haven't gotten heretics or religous rebels to spawn to test this out. I'm playing Vinland, started a war just to raise my revolt risk. I have RR ranging form 10 to 17 with at least 3 of these religion based revolters and I just kept getting peasants and Particularists.

I think the bracket fix will do it though. Cause missing brackets can cause general wierdness or everything after the bracket error not to get read.

[kepler]

I thought that rkb53 wanted to be elected Emperor since he wrote:

2:Playing as England and forming the UK i noticed I'm not eligible for becoming the HRE, is this supposed to happen?

Problem with adding provinces to the HRE as England is that they are likely to be refused anyway (if you are not Emperor) since other conditions have to be meet like, IIRC, you have to be weak compared to the Emperor. It's a Vanilla mechanic anyway as it's been said already.

[redgreen99]

Update version 1.3 is available here. You need version 1.2 installed first as 1.3 is a small 275kb file with latest fixes of all known issues. The base mod (ver 1.2) link is at the top of the 1st page of this thread.
http://www.mediafire.com/?6l2b6adpqt65r2j




CHANGE LOG for version 1.3

- Fixed missing ruler title localization for GOL and TIM.
- Updated Localized Country names.
- Made country names vanilla by default.
  If you want to use the localized names, copy the 0_Localized_Country_Names file from the RTG_ver1_2\Extras\LocalCountryNames folder
  into the RTG_ver1_2\localisation folder. You can go back to vanilla names again by using the file from VanillaCountryNames.
- Fixed the history for BYZ/TUK remaining in an alternate timeline after the year 1480.
- Removed alternate history for Ottoman's to make future updates easier.
- Moved alternate book mark for Kingdom or Jeruselam to the bottom, to avoid confusion between Historical starts and alternates.
- Moved the start date of KOJ from 1399 to 1337
- Fixed the wrong date listed in bookmark for the start of the Caroline War.
- Fixed a missing bracket in rebels_types.txt that should correct some over powered rebel types in game.

Taking a bit of a break on this for a another project and too decompress a bit. Keep posting any issue you find, I'll check back in about a week to iron anything out.

[rkb53]

I thought that rkb53 wanted to be elected Emperor since he wrote:



Problem with adding provinces to the HRE as England is that they are likely to be refused anyway (if you are not Emperor) since other conditions have to be meet like, IIRC, you have to be weak compared to the Emperor. It's a Vanilla mechanic anyway as it's been said already.

As you said I only wanted to become HRE not add provinces to the empire. I'm pretty sure you can still become emperor without imperial territories in vanilla.

[LockeCarnelia]

Just a little nitpicking, nothing big.

First off, fun mod, but I gotta say, the massive negatives BYZ gets for the entire game (Not talking about the civil war/infighting thing, that's justifiable) is kinda nuts, after all, numerous other countries get as big, if not bigger, and don't have such disadvantages to them. Perhaps when the Renaissance starts in earnest, in the 1450's or such, the entire Rome Difficulties modifier could be disabled?

Also, although deleting the rebel file helps a little bit, especially with the Vinland Rebels, something is still up with the rebels I fought as BYZ. I usually have to take a 20-30 troop army just to take down a 7 troop rebel army, both of us with commanders (Me usually with a very good one).

[redgreen99]

Just a little nitpicking, nothing big.

First off, fun mod, but I gotta say, the massive negatives BYZ gets for the entire game (Not talking about the civil war/infighting thing, that's justifiable) is kinda nuts, after all, numerous other countries get as big, if not bigger, and don't have such disadvantages to them. Perhaps when the Renaissance starts in earnest, in the 1450's or such, the entire Rome Difficulties modifier could be disabled?

Also, although deleting the rebel file helps a little bit, especially with the Vinland Rebels, something is still up with the rebels I fought as BYZ. I usually have to take a 20-30 troop army just to take down a 7 troop rebel army, both of us with commanders (Me usually with a very good one).

Regarding the tough rebels when playing BYZ. I have no idea what is causing that, as the rebel_types.txt fro the mod is the same as the stock file now except for one additional rebel type, but that type requires a country to have an imperial government. Which BYZ does not. Also with that file deleted, the game is pulling the stock file. I fixed a bracket issue that should have resolved any issues related to that file in ver 1.3

Its possible that some event is spawning a particular type. I'd almost have to see this for myself to know exactly what is happening and how to isolate it. All I can say is that if needing 30k troops to defeatt 7k rebels is not by design. I hope to be able to locate what is causing that.

Regarding BYZ. I personally cringe when I see maps of Rome rebuilt because they were so destabilized starting in 1340 onward that BYZ had no hope of ever recovering.

I have 3 triggered modifiers for BYZ to represent thier inane desire to destroy themselves. One for the civil war, one after the civil war, cause they were picked apart by Bulgaria after being weakenedd by the cival war, and one just to make it difficult for them if they ever get 15 cities back. These are all in triggered_modifiers.txt within the common folder. I'll list them here and if you want you can lower the penalties or delete them however you want. I'm keeping them as they are now because one of the mod goals is to have things play out relatively historical for hands off tests. It would be tough as hell now to build Rome, that part is intended.
Here are those modifiers:

##################################################
# Rome Difficulty RTG
##################################################

rome_challenge = {
	trigger = { 
		tag = BYZ
		num_of_cities = 15	
	}
	trade_efficiency = -0.05
	merchants = -0.5
	infantry_cost = 0.05
	cavalry_cost = 0.05
	global_tax_modifier = -0.2
	icon = 18
}

##################################################
# Byzantine Civil War RTG
##################################################

byz_civilwar = {
	trigger = {
		tag = BYZ 
		year = 1341
		NOT = { year = 1347 }	
	}
	trade_efficiency = -0.1
	production_efficiency = -0.1
	merchants = -0.75
	land_morale = -0.2
	discipline = -0.1
	global_tax_modifier = -0.3
	global_revolt_risk = 8
	icon = 18
}

##################################################
# Byzantine Unrest RTG
##################################################

byz_unrest = {
	trigger = {
		tag = BYZ 
		year = 1350
		NOT = { year = 1384 }	
	}
	trade_efficiency = -0.1
	production_efficiency = -0.1
	merchants = -0.5
	land_morale = -0.2
	discipline = -0.1
	global_tax_modifier = -0.2
	global_manpower_modifier = -0.2
	global_regiment_recruit_speed = -0.2
	global_revolt_risk = -3
	global_regiment_cost = 0.1
	global_revolt_risk = 1
	icon = 18
}

It isn't only to make the BYZ behave historically when the AI controls them, but also the Ottomans, Serbia and Bulgaria. I may very well tweak these a bit yet, like maybe revolt risk could be dropped in the one from 1350 to 1383 or the time changed to give then a break by 1370. I will play BYZ myself next as time permits. Its meant to fall when the AI controls it and probably the best a player could do is maintain the starting provinces from a 1337 start.

Oh and back to the rebels again. I need as much feedback on those issues as possible, like which rebel type are the toughest ones? Are they always heretics? Was it part of an event choice? Its puzzling as like I said, the stats are now all stock except for secularists.

I may have to start seaching all events/decisions for rebel to see if I come across something specific that is making certain rebels tougher than intended.

EDIT -Oh WAIT!!! If the rebels are now only a problem for BYZ, it might not be a rebel type problem. It could be there minus disciple/land morale modifiers factoring into this. -0.2 to land moral isn't that significant in the middle game but it could be more of a factor in the early game. So I will lower that BYZ penalty in an update, they have enough other penalties.

@LockeCarnelia One thing to try is when playing BYZ. The next time rebels spawn, save the game before attacking them. Using the same size stack, try attacking them with the negative BYZ modifiers in place. Note results, Then exit the game, delete those negative modifiers being sure you have a clean copy of that file 1st so you can restore original settings. Then start the game, load the save just before attacking the same rebel stack with the same # of troops and see how mucg difference there is.

I'll be doing this type of stuff as well.

[LockeCarnelia]

Now that I see you are going for the more historical kind of thing, I understand your reasoning. I personally don't like the deterministic approach, but it's still a mighty fun mod to play, so I really can't complain. Haven't got much of a chance to test your things out, due to serving onboard a US Navy vessel, and therefore having about as much free time as a worm has wings. That is, to say, none.

It seems to be nationalistic rebels that cause the most problems, peasants are peasantly, and noble rebels are fine. The number one thing I have noticed is the fact that the morale bar starts off in the fight at half, or below half (Vinland included), and the enemy takes almost no casualties while my own forces are inflicted horrible damage. Commanders seem to make no difference. Perhaps AI Bonuses are affecting rebels?

[redgreen99]

Now that I see you are going for the more historical kind of thing, I understand your reasoning. I personally don't like the deterministic approach, but it's still a mighty fun mod to play, so I really can't complain. Haven't got much of a chance to test your things out, due to serving onboard a US Navy vessel, and therefore having about as much free time as a worm has wings. That is, to say, none.

It seems to be nationalistic rebels that cause the most problems, peasants are peasantly, and noble rebels are fine. The number one thing I have noticed is the fact that the morale bar starts off in the fight at half, or below half (Vinland included), and the enemy takes almost no casualties while my own forces are inflicted horrible damage. Commanders seem to make no difference. Perhaps AI Bonuses are affecting rebels?

I do have a 0.1 hidden AI bonus. Why it should affect rebel AI more thane regular nation AI, I'm not sure. THough certain AI's are naturally tougher and the bonus may be too much for those. I don't think there is way to limit a trigger bonus to specific rebel types.

Think what I might try is dividing up my AI bonus into 3 tiers and the stuff that makes it harder would trigger later on, perhpas in 1450.

When you start with halve moral and your maintenance is maxed, that means that those rebels probaly have twice the moral as the player. Now I have a better idea of what is going on. The difference in moral is too large at the game start vs certain rebels. I'm not sure how to correct this as I'm not sure how unit type for rebels is determined when they are not thier own country, but simply spawn. I'll have to start a new thread and ask, hopefully someone knows.

For starters I will simply remove the 0.1 morale boost for the AI. Maybe that would be enough.

Regarding determanistic settings. All mods are really deterministic. England starts out with England, Castille starts out with over half of Iberia. So assigning territory that countries held on a specific date is really deterministic. Because Castile always will have an advantage over say Flanders. So if the territories reflect history, the troop strength then also does, the generally stability or instability of the country is set historically to some extent even in vanilla. Perhaps the only thing I might add is I keep the instability duration going as it generally lasted historically for a nation. So if BYZ was basically screwed historically for 150 years, then in game they probably will be also.

I may relent a bit for BYZ, like if they can hold 20 cities , I could remove some or all of its instability penalties. That would still make it hard to play BYZ, but give them a fair chance if they can hold on long enough. I think the Ottoman's were too weak in Vanilla, and part of that was Vanilla set BYZ territory but didn't really reflect all there inner turmoil that prevents them from threatening the Ottomans.

I'll adjust some of the AI modifiers to try to even out the morale issue. Will have version 1.4 out in a week with some balance corrections. Really appreciate the feedback.