CK2 Nonsensical Random Traits

[NCreepy]

I don't care about my relationship with other rulers much If the neighbour is in love with me and he/she has something i want i would still take it. If you only mean the AI then sure

[mst3k]

Agreed, there should be less traits so that those few traits actually define the character.

Exactly. With 5 children, 10-20 vassals, 5 neighbors, it gets overwhelming if they have 10+ traits each. Sheesh. Also, there is too much potential for unlikely, or at least strange, combinations.

I think 3-5 traits is about right, maybe less (1-3) for courtiers and minor figures and a bit more for people with titles. I realize this runs counter to the "simulation" nature of the game that treats everyone the same, but I often wish Paradox paid more attention to the gameplay experience and less to the "realism" of the simulation.

[blackfire83]

While we're making requests concerning traits (and I do agree with the OP here), Dynasty Traits, please! That is all. :P

[ash001]

- Was it a conscious design decision to have as many as 10 traits per character (as seen on the playthrough of the game)? would it be possible to mod/restrict the number of traits per character without hurting the gameplay?

Characters normally have around five traits, plus an education trait. So it's similar to CK. It's easy to mod, since traits are gained by events.

From a Q&A DD some time ago (on the release of the game demo)...

And I have this feeling the number of traits has risen since then... No clue what would be the reasoning behind this, though.

[Kingslanding]

I guess our experiances are different it states in the pop up the she "cought my eye". This tells me that she probably is good looking hehe. It's just a game anyways so who knows what they meant by this.

An attractive, lustful woman probably would catch the eye of half the court :P
As for the topic... I really haven't seen any character in my realm witn an overbearing number of traits (but then again, I don't present debutantes or invite others to my court all that much... But I would agree in making traits that really oppose each other mutually exclusive, like hunchback and duelist... Perhaps introducing a third new option.

[Jaol]

The current CK2 game engine assigns several random traits to every character at game start or when new characters are spawned.

Does this happen even if the character has more than 5 or 7 defined traits (IIRC, 5 is the key number for education trait-gain--more than that and the events slow down a lot--and adults usually have 7)?

For modding, in particular for ASOIF, you can work around this by having a start up event for each character that sets his or her traits manually (i.e. clear everything, then add what you want).

[Andrzej I]

Four, actually, is the number now. I can confirm it with 100% sureness. That said, I agree that four traits to begin with is a lot, and leads to characters not being all too easy to define, and on occasion are bizarrely paradoxical (a temperate drunk, a kind impaler, kind/wroth, etc.). I think reducing it to two traits would be ideal, allowing ample room for gaining more. Three, if one insists upon having more traits, could work as well too. Either way, four seems just like too much, especially with so few trait opposites defined.

[Grell74]

Another odd thing why are women randomly given martial education traits (e.g. knowledged tactician) when they arent even allowed to lead armies or become marshals? In CK1 they were only assigned religious or court education traits.

[-Rodri-]

I´m convinced that less is more in this kind of situations.

[Mr. Capiatlist]

I tend to agree that less is more. Especially when the traits start adding up relationship-wise. I feel my vassals are either -100 or +100... plus I've hired a celibate debutante before... which sort of made me mad.

[Kynaz]

History is just what the people who write it say it is. Who knows , maybe William the conqueror was really a thin , honest , hardworking person!!!




To be honest to me it is not an immersion breaker. In 1266 , im pretty sure france did not control 1/2 the world. Im pretty sure the crusades were failures and im pretty sure Byzantine FALLS apart as opposed to always becoming the strongest empire in the game. You don't play this game to repeat history. What if William was born slightly differently , how would that have changed the world? well know you are much much closer to knowing with this game.




Overall i like the idea that a certain amount of traits are assigned , nothing more boring than getting a king with "honest , Sloth & Detached Priest". Most mundane person in history right there. BUT i do agree that some of the traits are completely at odds , or at least don't paint a very realistic image of a person at times. Like more of a theme would seem appropriate i.e someone with really high intrigue is more likely to develope traits like "paranoid , deceitful and cynical". I have seen an "imbecil" with higher stats than 1/2 the game's people.. . And (on a side note) im also sick of my rulers randomly noticing some knights at the tournament and getting a "queer" feeling P_P.................... ya he realized at the age of 66 , and after having 6 kids he was gay. lol.. suppose its better that way than finding this out before he had kids...............

[Raczynski]

The current CK2 game engine assigns several random traits to every character at game start or when new characters are spawned. This creates very bizarre and unhistorical results, this has no gameplay benefits and to my mind is immersion breaking and works against the roleplaying aspects which makes CK2 such a good game. Characters are no longer defined by a couple of traits. It becomes less "Oh thats my sneaky brother in law" and more "Oh its my 21 intrigue courtier with an absurd list of silly icons."

Not only are modders adversely effected where the engine decides to assign Ned Starks and Aragorns “ambitious” and “deceitful” and Cerseis and Saurons “honest” and “modest” but the Vanilla game suffers from some ridiculous and implausible random result.

On my first vanilla game I went straight to check out William the Conqueror and was shocked to see his traits were “temperate” and “content”… wtf this is the brutal instigator of the “Harrowing of the North” and man who was so corpulent that his body could not fit in his coffin.

You're confusing two different problems here - random generation of traits, and debatable traits assigned in historical database.

[KPJ]

A vote for less traits here.
Think it would make each trait and the characters who possess them more memorable and unusual. I often see most courtiers are one way or the other on each of the 7 sins/virtues, when really most people should be about middle ground on most of them, in my opinion.

[Jaol]

Another odd thing why are women randomly given martial education traits (e.g. knowledged tactician) when they arent even allowed to lead armies or become marshals? In CK1 they were only assigned religious or court education traits.

This doesn't seem odd to me. Since ruler's wives stats affect state scores, why not give them martial boosting education? Think of Sikelgaita rallying the Normans at Dyrrhachium. In-game, that can be represented that by a wife with high martial.

[Baneslave]

You're confusing two different problems here - random generation of traits, and debatable traits assigned in historical database.

Uh, no?

The problem he is describing is that William the Conqueror is given random traits by game, not that developers gave him wrong traits.

[Raczynski]

Uh, no?

The problem he is describing is that William the Conqueror is given random traits by game, not that developers gave him wrong traits.

Umm, he is not? He has about a ton of traits defined in history files.

140 = { name="William" # AKA: William 'the Conqueror' dynasty=752 dna="epdbiohgmkk" properties="ae0000" martial=7 diplomacy=7 intrigue=10 stewardship=6 religion="catholic" culture="norman" add_trait="ambitious" add_trait="diligent" add_trait="just" add_trait="proud" add_trait="cynical" add_trait="brave" add_trait="temperate" add_trait="patient" add_trait="legit_bastard" add_trait="brilliant_strategist"

[Kingslanding]

This doesn't seem odd to me. Since ruler's wives stats affect state scores, why not give them martial boosting education? Think of Sikelgaita rallying the Normans at Dyrrhachium. In-game, that can be represented that by a wife with high martial.

Not to mention the fact that you can easily make it so that they can at least become marshals (not sure about leading armies thought)

[Baneslave]

Umm, he is not? He has about a ton of traits defined in history files.

140 = { name="William" # AKA: William 'the Conqueror' dynasty=752 dna="epdbiohgmkk" properties="ae0000" martial=7 diplomacy=7 intrigue=10 stewardship=6 religion="catholic" culture="norman" add_trait="ambitious" add_trait="diligent" add_trait="just" add_trait="proud" add_trait="cynical" add_trait="brave" add_trait="temperate" add_trait="patient" add_trait="legit_bastard" add_trait="brilliant_strategist"

I am being particularly stupid today, I see. Sorry for trouble.

[Grell74]

You're confusing two different problems here - random generation of traits, and debatable traits assigned in historical database.

No the two main points I wanted to raise were:

1) The nonsencial mixture of traits that are randomly assigned
2) The large number of these traits

I did not want these important and hardcoded issues to get bogged down in debates about which particular trait individual historical people should or should not possess. These are easily moddable anyway. Willy probably wasnt the best example for me to include, at least before 1.4 I am positive despite having that long list of starting traits, the engine was assigning him different traits on each new game. I am at work now so cant check if this is still the case after 1.4c.

[Grell74]

A simple fix might be to mod the "common/traits.txt" file to increase the amount of opposites = { xx }

Currently each trait only has one opposite assigned. With multiple traits assigned this should cut down on the bizarro results the randomising sometimes produces.

e.g.
kind opposites = { cruel }

could be modded to

kind opposites = { cruel impaler wroth greedy ambitious midas_touched }

PS. If you are going to completely miss the point and reply with a troll-like "but I think a kind person could also be an implaer" its just an example, please troll somewhere else.