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Grell74

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May 5, 2004
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The current CK2 game engine assigns several random traits to every character at game start or when new characters are spawned. This creates very bizarre and unhistorical results, this has no gameplay benefits and to my mind is immersion breaking and works against the roleplaying aspects which makes CK2 such a good game. Characters are no longer defined by a couple of traits. It becomes less "Oh thats my sneaky brother in law" and more "Oh its my 21 intrigue courtier with an absurd list of silly icons."

Not only are modders adversely effected where the engine decides to assign Ned Starks and Aragorns “ambitious” and “deceitful” and Cerseis and Saurons “honest” and “modest” but the Vanilla game suffers from some ridiculous and implausible random result.

On my first vanilla game I went straight to check out William the Conqueror and was shocked to see his traits were “temperate” and “content”… wtf this is the brutal instigator of the “Harrowing of the North” and man who was so corpulent that his body could not fit in his coffin.

When using "Invite a Debutante" it always amusing to see what mish-mash of several implausible icons the poor girl arrives with (hunchback, duelist, knowledged tactican… ).

Since there is the wonderful ability to start at any time I can see that it is important for the game engine to create random characters. However I think it would be preferable if:

-there were archetypes of plausible character trait combinations
-there were LESS traits added to each new character, new characters don’t need to come with 7 icons (especially since they may gain more later in the game).
 
I thought Williams traits were weird too. They need to edit the traits of some of the more well known characters, also the most interesting characters of the campaign starts at the least.
 
Well, the traits that people have at game start aren't completely random. I often play as william the bastard and he always has at least good stats (and he should, since he did, after all, go from duke to king and quite successfully too). As for creating new courtiers...well, it's like picking a random person off the street, the chances are infinite.
 
As for creating new courtiers...well, it's like picking a random person off the street...

When you pick a random person off the street, you don't usually end up with a Temperate Drunken Modest Deceitful Inbred Hunchback... let alone two of them (Twins).

That said... patch v1.04 did indeed reduce the number of traits for randomly generated characters.
 
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Well, the traits that people have at game start aren't completely random. I often play as william the bastard and he always has at least good stats (and he should, since he did, after all, go from duke to king and quite successfully too). As for creating new courtiers...well, it's like picking a random person off the street, the chances are infinite.

The chances are not infinite... people live in cultures with values and norms. People are not a hodgepodge of completley unrelated traits. A "kind" person is more likely to also be "generous", just as a "greedy" person should be more likley in CK to also have the "gluttonous" trait. This is not the case.

I knew there would be posters of the ilk: "No! how dare you CK2 is completely perefect the way it is now and nothing at all should be changed." I realise such posts are common on all threads and I realise some people possess the "obsequious" trait irl. Please stop and consider that I am arguing from a point of liking the game and wanting to see it improved even more before you derail my point into silly tangets.
 
That said... patch v1.04 did indeed reduce the number of traits for randomly generated characters.

Reduced?
I thought they did the opposite...

1.04 CHANGE LOG:

- The game will now also auto-generate an appropriate number of traits for children with not enough scripted traits

In any case, as much as I enjoy the game, I kinda agree with the OP. The number of traits gets a bit overwhelming.

I'm working on a mod for some time exactly on this! See if there's a way to curb the traits spamming and tie the traits to certain archetypes...
 
The chances are not infinite... people live in cultures with values and norms. People are not a hodgepodge of completley unrelated traits. A "kind" person is more likely to also be "generous", just as a "greedy" person should be more likley in CK to also have the "gluttonous" trait. This is not the case.

I knew there would be posters of the ilk: "No! how dare you CK2 is completely perefect the way it is now and nothing at all should be changed." I realise such posts are common on all threads and I realise some people possess the "obsequious" trait irl. Please stop and consider that I am arguing from a point of liking the game and wanting to see it improved even more before you derail my point into silly tangets.
Right, because what I posted was exactly that... In case you haven't noticed, traits on all start dates are not completely random. Also, not all people are the same. Now, I'm not saying it's possible to be kind and rude at the same time, or something like that. What I AM saying is that you cannot say stuff like 'greedy people should be gluttonous'. The choices may not be infinite, true, but they are quite close to it. I also never said that CK2 is perfect, especially when the engine will spawn people that are both cellibate and lustful . Nevertheless,for what it's worth, I will stop posting here, I find your attitude less than appealing to be honest; apparently, I possess the 'honest' trait IRL, yet I do not possess the 'kind' trait, go figure...
 
Sorry Moldeh I didnt mean to be so harsh to you in particular.

In the absence of any official statement I assume Paraodox think the random traits are fine, Moldeh thinks its fine. Not many others have cared one way or another to post so I guess myself and a handful of modders who it also irritates will each work on our own workaround/fixes.

To get around the hardcoded randomising, my current line of thinking is to completely revamp the events granting character traits through out the course of the game, especially education events... not a task im looking forward to... and this will still leave spawned characters and the entire 1st genertaion of characters at game start with a copious cocktail of absurd traits. Has anyone any better sugestions? Someone in another thread mentioned dummy "blannk" traits but I am not keen on that idea.
 
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Agreed, there should be less traits so that those few traits actually define the character.

Yes exactly. Its not a case of greater depth = greater number of traits. With too many traits on a character I find they no longer become a relatable or identifiable personality type but a 12 intrigue 2 martial abstraction. This doesnt help in roleplaying or keeping in the spririt of what makes this game so enjoyable.
 
Men tend to "drool" after females they find good looking and attractive but sure, it could be what they mean ;) I often get the random option in this game to go to some woman other than my wifes chambers and very rarely have the lustfull trait.
 
Men tend to "drool" after females they find good looking and attractive but sure, it could be what they mean ;) I often get the random option in this game to go to some woman other than my wifes chambers and very rarely have the lustfull trait.

AFAIK, that is because the other side of equation is lustful.
 
I guess our experiances are different :) it states in the pop up the she "cought my eye". This tells me that she probably is good looking hehe. It's just a game anyways so who knows what they meant by this.
 
I fully agree with Grell's point, particularly on the deceitful Ned Stark part. Please devs, if you are reading this, let us at least use "random_traits = no" on the character definition files. It should be an easy thing to add, particularly since it already exists when creating a character by event. The absence of such an option is going to end up forcing us to create custom events for each starting character in our mods just to make sure they have the appropriate traits and only these.
 
Please devs, if you are reading this, let us at least use "random_traits = no" on the character definition files.
+1

To get around the hardcoded randomising, my current line of thinking is to completely revamp the events granting character traits through out the course of the game, especially education events... not a task im looking forward to... and this will still leave spawned characters and the entire 1st genertaion of characters at game start with a copious cocktail of absurd traits. Has anyone any better sugestions? Someone in another thread mentioned dummy "blannk" traits but I am not keen on that idea.

Not too keen on the "blank" traits as well. For now, all I have is this idea of creating an event that removes traits once a certain threshold is reached (like 5 traits, for instance). Kinda crude, I know, but for lack of better options...:sad:


Any other ways to go about this?