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I agree 500k is overkill, however their empire in game was very large, but still overkill. Even the HRE having 200K, in 1200!? Just a tad overkill to be sure.

However, 20k seems a bit low too. Remember, the first crusaders that took jerusalem in 1099 with 60,000 men. A strong HRE with 100,000 wouldnt be impossible IMO. However, England a place like england should be more like 20k to 40k.

It's easy to muster people when "God wills it", but I doubt the King of Eng or even Emperor could muster tens of thousands of men in the 11th and 12th centuries simply to assist his ducal ally in putting down a rebellious count or claimant.

At least I never read about that in a history book.

In CK2 I attacked Flanders as Lower Lorraine and his marriage to Madame Doukas brought 14k Greek soldiers into the North Sea to defend this lowly duke against my claims. Luckily my holy orders were able to turn them into fertilizer for the tulips, but it seems a bit ridiculous for that kind of commitment over a petty ducal squabble.
 
I said this in another thread but I'll say it again.

The numbers advantage is unrealistic. You cannot attack 20,000 men with 200,000 men. It isn't physically possible.
Yet the game doesn't recognize this.

If you have 20,000 men, at best only 20,000 men could assault you from the front if your lines are 1 man deep.
The game thinks that all 200,000 can attack.

And if you're 20,000 men in the center column are being flanked by another 200,000 men, at most only 20,000 men could physically attack their flank if your lines are 1 man deep.

Now 200,000 men will kill 20,000 men, but the head-on columns should average a 1:1 kill death ratio. So if you both only have a center column then you both should lose around 20,000 casualties, without overcomplicating the artillery phase because 200,000 men have far more artillery than 20,000. But for a fair compromise against massive doomstacks, the unrealistic artillery surface area isn't going to ruin the game. The doomstacks are still going to win, but your 20,000 men will just do more hurt to them. Right now a 200k stack against a 20k stack would probably suffer less than a thousand casualties.

The paradox idea of combat wouldn't even allow the roman empire to conquer the mediterranean region cause it doesn't recognize the tactical strength of columns and flanks. In paradox' world, every enemy in the ranks would be able to attack the roman ranks. Nevermind their shield walls and rotating columns. Yeah a large enough disorganized barbarian force could destroy a much smaller roman legion, but not with the ridiculous K:D ratios in CK2.
 
It's easy to muster people when "God wills it", but I doubt the King of Eng or even Emperor could muster tens of thousands of men in the 11th and 12th centuries simply to assist his ducal ally in putting down a rebellious count or claimant.

At least I never read about that in a history book.

In CK2 I attacked Flanders as Lower Lorraine and his marriage to Madame Doukas brought 14k Greek soldiers into the North Sea to defend this lowly duke against my claims. Luckily my holy orders were able to turn them into fertilizer for the tulips, but it seems a bit ridiculous for that kind of commitment over a petty ducal squabble.

Well I won't argue with you there, hopefully someone will add that to a mod. Many of the mods are open to suggestions. I agree. I think the number in 1066 are good, but after a 100 years they get to be way to large.
 
I think you are confused. They do not make the game easier, actually they make it much more difficult. With all of those mods, you cannot declare holy wars without first having enough piety and prestige, and only against neighbors. Also it is much more difficult to raise crown authority. Whilst the AI has a harder time holding together large empires, trust me , they still exist. They just don't turn into huge blobs with no chance of ever collapsing. Every one of them also makes sickness more dangerous, and your character is a lot less likely to die younger. And the only mod that grants independence with white Peace is CK plus (supposedly, thats news to me) the other 2, do not.

And all of those tweaks also make it a lot harder for the player to hold together a large empire. You think vanilla is harder?! LMAO, obviously you have no played any of those mods. Go play them and come back and comment when you know what you are talking about.

Oh I know what I'm talking about alright I can see it CLEARLY how that mod makes it EASIER on the player to destroy the blobs cause he can't handle them in VANILLA lmao. Anything that makes it HARDER for the AI to accomplish makes it EASIER on the player. Come back and talk to me when YOU know what you're talking about. lol
 
The numbers advantage is unrealistic. You cannot attack 20,000 men with 200,000 men. It isn't physically possible.
Yet the game doesn't recognize this.

You misinterpret the battle as it's not a SINGULAR battle it's a PROVINCIAL battle meaning MANY battles are taking place at the same time in that PROVINCE, the game doesn't ZOOM IN like a Total War game to a battle it SIMULATES ALL those battles at once in an ABSTRACT way. So, easily 200k men could be fighting 20k men all throughout that province in those days that pass by on the time scale. Think of it like a WWI assault down the entire line, the whole ARMY is involved in that ONE BATTLE of miles and miles and miles of soldiers. ;)
 
Why do YOU capitalize RANDOM words? Did THEY teach you TO do THAT in your remedial TYPING class?

Also why make back-to-back posts? all that does is annoy people to the point that they care even less about what you were saying than when you were CAPITALIZING every OTHER word.

If you have 20,000 men, at best only 20,000 men could assault you from the front if your lines are 1 man deep.
The game thinks that all 200,000 can attack.

Agreed... mostly.
 
The numbers themselves aren't really a factor.


Like you could times everything in the game by 10 , and it would be the same. 1,000,000 armies in zones with 170k supply and such.


The real problem is the way numbers work relative to game progress. Supply , realistic or not , doesn't increase to match the rate levies increase. The HRE's levies go from 12k to 100k , supply goes from........ 10k to 10k.

Why do YOU capitalize RANDOM words? Did THEY teach you TO do THAT in your remedial TYPING class?

Also why make back-to-back posts? all that does is annoy people to the point that they care even less about what you were saying than when you were CAPITALIZING every OTHER word.

You probably just have OCD tbh , the way he types doesn't bother me at all l0l.
 
The numbers themselves aren't really a factor.


Like you could times everything in the game by 10 , and it would be the same. 1,000,000 armies in zones with 170k supply and such.


The real problem is the way numbers work relative to game progress. Supply , realistic or not , doesn't increase to match the rate levies increase. The HRE's levies go from 12k to 100k , supply goes from........ 10k to 10k.



You probably just have OCD tbh , the way he types doesn't bother me at all l0l.

I often wonder why people READ POSTS of those that ANNOY them? I know I don't. ;) Must be some kind of MAGNET and they just can't not read them. For it is waaaaay too easy to just bypass a post when you know who the poster is and it's right out to the left hand side for all to see who's posting that block of the thread. ;)

For those that think there is no attrition try taking 100k men around the horn on a galley and see how many you have when you arrive at a land destination. Attrition is fine in this game you just have to watch out for the very weak supply zones if you want to bring a strong force to bear against your enemies. With muslims having no attrittion (much like CK1) it gives them the power they actually had for a time and makes crusading what it should be (HARD) to accomplish. ;)
 
Oh I know what I'm talking about alright I can see it CLEARLY how that mod makes it EASIER on the player to destroy the blobs cause he can't handle them in VANILLA lmao. Anything that makes it HARDER for the AI to accomplish makes it EASIER on the player. Come back and talk to me when YOU know what you're talking about. lol

Perhaps your right, but you've presented no argument. All of this is mere assertion.

Also, are you worried if you don't capitalize random words without any rhyme or reason and insult the hard work of modders nobody will understand you? It actually makes it harder to communicate your points (such as they are).
 
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I agree 500k is overkill, however their empire in game was very large, but still overkill. Even the HRE having 200K, in 1200!? Just a tad overkill to be sure.

However, 20k seems a bit low too. Remember, the first crusaders that took jerusalem in 1099 with 60,000 men. A strong HRE with 100,000 wouldnt be impossible IMO. However, England a place like england should be more like 20k to 40k.

Didn't Barbarossa field 150k or so guys for the Third Crusade?
 
The problem isn't that the Emperor is too strong, but that the Papacy is too weak. There is none of the dualism that was present in the Holy Roman Empire, and the resolution of this conflict (The Golden Bull) put a permanent cap on what the game calls "Crown Authority". Vassals who wanted more independence in the Empire didn't just go solo, or gang up with other like minded vassals, but deliberately aligned themselves in the Papal faction against the power of the Emperor.

You misinterpret the battle as it's not a SINGULAR battle it's a PROVINCIAL battle meaning MANY battles are taking place at the same time in that PROVINCE, the game doesn't ZOOM IN like a Total War game to a battle it SIMULATES ALL those battles at once in an ABSTRACT way. So, easily 200k men could be fighting 20k men all throughout that province in those days that pass by on the time scale. Think of it like a WWI assault down the entire line, the whole ARMY is involved in that ONE BATTLE of miles and miles and miles of soldiers. ;)

Don't type like that. Rather than helping you to communicate your points, it makes you sound like a condescending git.
 
I don't mean that 220,000 soldiers could not be fighting in a province at the same time, i'm talking surface area.
Its the same concept as not being to lift a really, really big rock even if you have infinite manpower, theres only so much surface area, only so many men can lift the rock.
 
This is a fun game but even then I have a hard time coming to grasp with the fact that this is a real time game that allows you to make decisons on how to raise your kids and at the same time watch impossibly large armies crawl around all of Europe at all times of the year. :wacko: In this time period armies traveled on their stomachs and most generals and kings could care less about long term logistics (with some exceptions). This issue of logistics is why I don't like seeing the doom stacks some kings can wield as it should not be possible (maybe for a climatic battle but for the length of time, no way imo). Another issue I have is even though battles in provinces are supposed to reflect several battles over a period of time the battlescreen interface does not exactly convey that very well giving the impression that one battle is happening. If it did it for a battle for battle resolution it would be great but for showing a mini 'campaign' in a province of sorts it fails imo. Hell I'd rather just be presented with a static screen that shows how many major/minor and skirmish battles I had won at the end of the province fight. So that said I'd like to see the following pipedream come true. ;)

1. Have supply, recruitment and attrition be based on the season. So to answer why? If you really think you can drive your 20k strong army around half of Europe in the dead of winter and keep it intact as a credible fighting force in this time period you sir or ma'am are smoking the good stuff. :)

2. Revamp the province battlescreen as I alluded to above. Give a more accurate depiction of what is happening in the campaign for the province territory. I like how the sieges are done and think that method would work better. I'd say still allow the player to pick what generals lead what troops so the player can have some input/control over the campaign a bit.

For some general online info this has some good stuff for those who care to read a bit.
http://www.hyw.com/books/history/Logistic.htm
 
I beat the HRE from a start as Lombardia. The key is to gain the kingdom of Italy early on before the CA goes up too high. Once you are the king of Italy you are not bound by the HRE's laws and can attack any HRE vassal but they cannot attack you. A non-de-jure HRE kingdom is one of the most secure positions in the game.
 
I beat the HRE from a start as Lombardia. The key is to gain the kingdom of Italy early on before the CA goes up too high. Once you are the king of Italy you are not bound by the HRE's laws and can attack any HRE vassal but they cannot attack you. A non-de-jure HRE kingdom is one of the most secure positions in the game.
I much did this as well. I eventually managed to fuse the Duchy of Lombardia's territory with the successor state of Matilda's Tuscany (after a few well placed assassinations of some meddlesome childless aunts), and I had enough troops to go for independence. The geography of the Alps forces the HRE to divide its German stacks when they march through the mountains to smash you - hire some mercs, stick everything together into a super stack and wack a mole once they enter the Po Valley. You will likely have some loyalist HRE counts and dukes scattered around the Italian Peninsula - occupy these to get up to 100% warscore. Consolidate once the war is won, and focus on acquiring the whole of both de jure Italy and Sicily. I also had to join in some plots to bring the CA back down to low so I could gobble up some HRE vassals whilst the Kaiser was still my liege, but this is very circumstantial and depends on the popularity of the Kaiser in question.


This is a fun game but even then I have a hard time coming to grasp with the fact that this is a real time game that allows you to make decisons on how to raise your kids and at the same time watch impossibly large armies crawl around all of Europe at all times of the year. :wacko: In this time period armies traveled on their stomachs and most generals and kings could care less about long term logistics (with some exceptions).
I think this wouldn't do much except confuse the ai, provide for exploits, and annoy the player.
 
I beat the HRE from a start as Lombardia. The key is to gain the kingdom of Italy early on before the CA goes up too high. Once you are the king of Italy you are not bound by the HRE's laws and can attack any HRE vassal but they cannot attack you. A non-de-jure HRE kingdom is one of the most secure positions in the game.

Well two is even better ;) Its pretty easy to become King of Italy and King of Burgundy. I did it with Pierre de Savoie marrying Mathilda early on. Ez mode. :)
 
Oh I know what I'm talking about alright I can see it CLEARLY how that mod makes it EASIER on the player to destroy the blobs cause he can't handle them in VANILLA lmao. Anything that makes it HARDER for the AI to accomplish makes it EASIER on the player. Come back and talk to me when YOU know what you're talking about. lol

Have you played CK plus, or Bella, or Prince and Thane? Then why do you pretend that you know? Nothing is clear until you've tried it. Contrary to your beliefs, most people mod P'dox games to make them harder, not easier. That's like saying Magna mundi is easier than EUIII. Ohh wait, you wouldn't know about that would you? because you don't even have EUIII. I have been playing P'dox games and mods of every game for 10 years. P'dox fans almost always make mods to make the game more realistic and more difficult. They DO NOT make it easier, ask anyone who has played them. If anything is easy it is Vanilla. Being able to declare holy wars at will is easy mode.

And I have yet to see HRE or Byzantines just implode in any of those mods, it just doesn't make it easy for them to expand anymore, it makes it more difficult for all realms to expand, including the player.
 
One thing id like to see is that if the AI can continue to raise armies after destruction like its nothing they can at least be of lower quality/morale. It makes no sense that i have to spend wars with one army group conquering while another is on recycling duty.
 
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