2 Problems: HRE far too powerful, and no attrition to large armies
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thats wrong... many elephants survived
he lost about 30% to 40% of his army from (~40.000 to ~26.000 and he lost about 20% of his elephants, from 37 to 24)
it wouldve been lower if he had crossed in summer and even more so if he had crossed in friendly territory. even so artrition is too low in enemy territory and even there is no seasonal effect which would have been the other largest factor. also there should be effect on the morale of troops.
I think if anything attrition may be too high. Playing in the later years after 1200, I see in my game HRE can raise 200k, playing as Spain 110K, seljuks 500k. Try invading the holy land when you can only put 11k soldiers in a province without taking attrition, and the seljuks come at you with 35k stacks and have no attrition.
If I try to go on crusade to holy land, and raise my 110k men, and you try to put 60k men in one province, as the real crusaders did, it would probably be down 10k in one month, it is a little much.
If I try to go on crusade to holy land, and raise my 110k men, and you try to put 60k men in one province, as the real crusaders did, it would probably be down 10k in one month, it is a little much.
Exactly. If you don't get a hold in the Holy Lands early, you don't stand a chance against the Shia Caliphate or any big muslim there. Ship and land attrition (especially in the Middle East) might seem ok-ish early on, but when you need 20k armies and can only put in 7k in a province without getting annihilated by attrition, it makes Crusades hard. Now, on the other hand, the locals can raise troops and gather them to make an army much more easily and without having to deal with sea or even land attrition. The only way to beat them is to get a foothold there early and then have them attack you on own territory, where they'll have to face the same problems you do.
I understand that the Middle East is filled with deserts, that make attrition a big problem, but the numbers stay the same for the whole game. I don't care what the OP thinks, attrition is extremely high in late-game scenarios (not to mention that the HRE can be annihilated if you make them attack you on own land land). 20k => 13k troops in 2 weeks is absurd...not only does it render sieges completely and utterly useless, but it also makes Crusades hard. Just make attrition scale with either technology (like in EU) or date, because having to send 100k troops to Jerusalem, only to have 70% of them die from attrition is just silly.
I love when the HRE rushes to high authority and goes to primogeniture succession in the 1100s. I'll bet the Saliens wished they had thought of that.
I just don't understand why the electors were made so willing to grant higher levels of authority. I would imagine when they were designing the HRE they thought of that happening and how boring (and absurd) it would make the game if you happened to be inside the empire, yet they went ahead with it. All it would have taken is some prerequisite to increase crown authority, like oh I don't know, a war between the emperor and every single prince-elector at the same time.
I just don't understand why the electors were made so willing to grant higher levels of authority. I would imagine when they were designing the HRE they thought of that happening and how boring (and absurd) it would make the game if you happened to be inside the empire, yet they went ahead with it. All it would have taken is some prerequisite to increase crown authority, like oh I don't know, a war between the emperor and every single prince-elector at the same time.
This, changing crown authority is stupidly easy and unrealistic. Oh you want to take away my sovereignty? Oh you seem like a nice guy, go ahead.
Talk about SIMPLIFYING the game. lol that makes the game so easy an 8 year old could play and beat it. I prefer the way the DEVS did it by keeping the BLOBS MORE POWERFUL and STABLE as it makes for a more interesting game of trying to get independence instead of just GIVING it to someone because they asked and got a WHITE PEACE? lmao More power to absolute crown authority so there are more wars TRYING to gain independence instead of just getting it for nothing.
I think you are confused. They do not make the game easier, actually they make it much more difficult. With all of those mods, you cannot declare holy wars without first having enough piety and prestige, and only against neighbors. Also it is much more difficult to raise crown authority. Whilst the AI has a harder time holding together large empires, trust me , they still exist. They just don't turn into huge blobs with no chance of ever collapsing. Every one of them also makes sickness more dangerous, and your character is a lot less likely to die younger. And the only mod that grants independence with white Peace is CK plus (supposedly, thats news to me) the other 2, do not.
And all of those tweaks also make it a lot harder for the player to hold together a large empire. You think vanilla is harder?! LMAO, obviously you have no played any of those mods. Go play them and come back and comment when you know what you are talking about.
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A war of independence is almost always a defensive war, unless you're simply more powerful than your previous ruler.
I've never fought for independence myself, I've only read that they are much too ridiculously difficult to win in some cases.
I hope its not as bad as having to conquer an entire empire to get them to relinquish a single fucking duchy. The devs coded that one too, MoM.
Uh...Well, since you are the attacker you can't just defend until the warscore is 100%, but what you can do is conquer 1/2 nearby counties and then just defend them. Easily doable by human players. Not so much by the AI, though. But do keep in mind that a duke facing an empire is out of his league and should under no circumstances be able to win, unless he has a crapload of allies.
I always fight for independence against HRE. When it is fighting many wars at once. Beat a stack or 2. Rapidly capture the Capital province. Go on defensive. Kill his reraised levies. Soon you have 100% warscore.
If youre powerful enough they cant do anything even if they wanted to. IRL the problem was in large part incompetence, complacency, and lack of foresight. Although I wouldn't mind if raising crown authority cost say 250 prestige for low authority, 500 for medium and so on. It should also come into play during elections somehow.
The problem is, nobody in this time period should be able to raise an army that big. Nobody could raise 500k men until Napoleon.
20k men was a full-size army. A King or Emperor would have one of those.
If you made the levy sizes realistic, attrition wouldn't be a problem.
Probably true, although admiteddly I'm no history expert. But we should also consider that a player can easily make a realm much bigger than those that existed at the time. Honestly, though, I think it would it be cool to have more realistic armies but even if we don't get them, I'm fine with that. I just think that the game should be balanced around the numbers currently used. It's extremely stupid that county supply limits stay the same for the whole game.
So, either we make supply limits scale with tech like in EU, or we go for realistic troop numbers and have military buildings increase troop quality instead of just quantity, which would make static county supply limits fine. But attrition is silly atm...if I can raise 3 times as many troops from one province, then I sure as hell have the supplies to feed them as well. Hopefully, an expansion will fix that. Sooner rather than later.
The real problem is that levies grow in a stupid way throughout the game. From 1066 to 1453 armies didn't triple or quadruple in size, and yet they do in CKII. Growth should be much more modest. If HRE starts out with 30k in troops it should end up with 60k in troops tops in 1453, assuming it stays the same size. Right now armies get 4x as large across the course of the game, and that creates all sorts of stupid problems.
Maybe they could add population. This will make it more realistic, and if you lose troops you also lose population.
That's what I said. Instead of having buildings that increase army size, we should have buildings that increase their quality, that makes a lot more sense and fixes the whole static supply limits/attrition issue.
That was more suited in EU than it is in CK2, imo. It could help with supply limit scaling but, the way I see it, if population's there, it should increase taxes and stuff. But we already have a thing like that, in the game, since some counties have more living space; the way I see it, since that's already there, we can't have both. But yeah, it could solve our supply limit issue as well the issue with troops replenishing too quickly after they die.
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Levies aren t salads. And your right thats the problem. Trrops should be tied to population. Can t remember the game who rightfully did that maybe some TTW but i think not.
I partially agree. But my biggest issue isn't that HRE is too strong , its that vassals pass CA laws like they are nothing.
I watched the HRE get High CA in 36 years of playing..... thats ridiculous. The other vassals just don't care. The emperor even got caught assassinating someone , was a homosexual , deceitful and arbitrary. On top of all of this the AI derped around with troops in Spain and had -50 relations with pretty much every duke through raised levies. Yet despite it all , "oh sure mister emperor sir , id love to give you as much CA as you want my lord". Then i was shocked when i saw 3/4 of HRE rebel 30 years later over the Emperor changing succession laws from elective to primo. I thought for sure something interesting will happen , im sure someone is going to gain Independence. But no , was just a war to depose the emperor and put a new one in. Now we are stuck with primo regardless. Though hey i guess the CA was lowered "yay" ....... for about 5 years than BAM "sure mister new emperor , you want high ca? sure thing baby pie!!! we love you" vassals instant vote yes and pass it again. Uh didn't we just depose the last emperor......................
Overall i think its possible to gain Independence as a player. But for the AI to do it is incredibly rare. ONE thing they really should do is allow players outside the actual de JURE HRE to plot. Germany / HRE is alot smaller than the Territory it controls. Many dukes don't get to vote , and don't get to plot , but are direct and powerful members of the HRE. For example , me and some of the Italian dukes provide 2x the levies the voting dukes do. Do you really think the emperor could just ignore us? but we can't plot so he can.
I agree 500k is overkill, however their empire in game was very large, but still overkill. Even the HRE having 200K, in 1200!? Just a tad overkill to be sure.
However, 20k seems a bit low too. Remember, the first crusaders that took jerusalem in 1099 with 60,000 men. A strong HRE with 100,000 wouldnt be impossible IMO. However, England a place like england should be more like 20k to 40k.