About the perspective

[ProjectAngel]

(it's no accident first-person-shooters are a gaming juggernaut)

First person view works so well for shooters because you don't rely on your peripheral vision as much because your opponents are always at range, also with shooters you tend to shoot directly in front of you meaning a 3rd person view in this situation would be a hinderence. We have already been over why this doesn't work in a melee game setting.

I wish people would stop going on about this now, it's clear that it's something that the community is split on so why can't people come to the conclusion that adding in BOTH first and third person is clearly the best outcome.

Also want to see a zero-HUD option with all the same mechanics in terms of swing and wind-up but with none of the on-screen indicators so you have to become practiced at judging these timings.

Pretty sure your wishes will be granted on that one.

[Kator Viridian]

^ This. There's a huge market available if they can achieve it (it's no accident first-person-shooters are a gaming juggernaut).

I'd like to see a modifier key used which when held switches your mouse from control of your viewpoint to control of your primary weapon (which will slave your viewpoint to the actions you then make with your weapon). Anyone who's used ArmA's freelook will know the sort of hold-to-switch-mouse-function thing I mean.

Also want to see a zero-HUD option with all the same mechanics in terms of swing and wind-up but with none of the on-screen indicators so you have to become practiced at judging these timings.

Definatly played ARMAII and OA and have to say never really use the free look, always better to point your weapon where you are looking (That or use the sight of your gun if it has a scope, usually pick and L8 Susat myself so always have a nice scope on my rifle when jumping into a town). The problem with that free look is you loose a lot of manouverability, most of your movement comes from where you are pointing your mouse without free look, running with freelook gives you only 8 movement directions from the 360 you'd have without it ... dunno about you but freelook has always felt rather limiting in what it could be.

I just personally would never use freelook or find it that useful, afterall spotting someone at 9 O'clock then having to release the freelook key then move to look at the enemy could mean I have my head cleaved from my neck, maybe its because I play with a quite high mouse sensitivity so i'm usually whipping my look around and just find that a lot easier.

First person shooters have been around for a long long loooooooonnngggg time, good old Duke Nukem was always the best, first person shooters have had a lot of time evolving, they even evolved into 3rd person shooters like star wars battlefront (and Battlefront II which is a personal favourite of mine).

I do agree thought that the game has to get its own perspective, what will fit it, and a lot of people will decide when it comes out, wether it be better for 1st person or 3rd having the option to change between would be the better option at the moment, if it has freelook so be it but personally will be unhooking that key as fast as possible.

[d_funkt]

Didn't mean that it should have freelook per se, I was just using it as an example of a game that has a hold-button-to-change-mouse-function bind. What would happen for as long as you held this 'strike' bind (i.e. ALT) is that W/A/S/D would still move you forward/left/back/right but your mouse gestures would now control your weapon's wind-up and swing through any angle. Or maybe A/D's function could also change while held so instead of simply shuffling left/right you circle left/right around a point in front of you based on the length of your weapon. Or you could use ALT/SPACE each for secondary/primary weapon 'strike'. With such gestural controls and a suitably flexible animation system you could really begin to make nuanced melee combat. No idea how well this would actually work in practice (and I dare say all these decisions were made long ago for this title) but I'd like to see them try to innovate in this manner.

EDIT: Actually, no need to bother with ALT/SPACE as MOUSE1/2 could still be used.

[Vent_Gala]

I have to agree that both are needed, since both views have strong supporters. For me, I wouldn't even consider touching it if it was 1st person view only, to me that view is a pure immersion breaker. I need to be able to see my character in order to feel invested in him/her, and I also need things like periphiral vision and a basic awerness of my surroundings, something I've never gotten out of an FPS.

However, I would hate to see someone else, with an equally strong dislike of 3rd person views, be turned away due to a lack of his/hers preferred view. So yeah, both are needed.

As a side note, I don't think wonder woman view is a good term in this case. A shoulder camera view in a melee game can not be compared to the unfair advantage you gain in a flight simulator by turning the cockpit off. If anything, it merely removes some of the unfair DISadvantages a 1st person view present in a melee game. I have fought in full medieval gear irl, and even though the vision slots are minute, reality provides you with a sense of balance, sense of direction and a "sixth sense" periphiral vision (partrly based on sound) that is simply not present in a FPS computer game. Clearly, in this case, the wonder woman term is used exlusively to mock those who prefer 3rd person view, so let's not go there, shall we?

[Destraex]

Wonder Woman view is meant to mock in the simulator world... here I am using it as the most similar thing I know as a similar (imho) conundrum for another game type. To me turning off the cockpit is exactly the same as the peripheral view. I really think its not an over the shoulder view, as from the screenshots and videos at least you are able to see from much much further back. You are able to see your whole body and not only that but a fair portion of the map to the left right and behind. If hearing is part of peripheral vision then let them introduce good sound effects.

[Robin.]

oh and btw.

try comparing the real peripheral vision of your actual eyes with a standard ~60 degrees fps game fov

Then again... if you're wearing an antiquated old great helm you inherited from your great great great great great great great great great great great grandfather whom went on the crusades, then I guess that's a different story

[zenarion]

Feng Zhu on perspective in console and PC games.
User discretion is advised:

[Destraex]

good video

[fanta_a]

Just wanted to mention that it seems like there will be no 1.st person mode. I guess it means that it will be for shooting only.
It's a quite sad, I was looking forward to this game, but that is a great turn off.

(Page in norwegian, but questions and answers is mostly in english.
http://www.gamer.no/artikler/107853/...udioet-svarte/

And I am thinking of this quote:
First person view:
"Will we be able to play in first person view?"
Mike Hunt:
"In certain situations, yes. "

[Kamikazuh]

Question later from the article.

"Are you planning on implementing a first person camera angle?"
"Yes, but only for ranged weapons and couched lances. See reasons above. "



One thing worries me from this article though. Not really on topic but..
"Will War of Roses give the ability to block certain moves? eg. in Mount and Blade the thrust was a hard move to do damage with and even with good mouse control, the attack would still "pop up" at the worst times possible."
"WotR have a four directional combat system, very similar to the one in Warband, the thrust can be blocked as any other attack. My goal is to make all attacks viable in at least some situations, and they should certainly not "pop up" when you don't want them to."

If this means that strikes will never glance off, then it's really bad, It's just stripping another layer from the combat. You can use the glancing off as an advantage in some points too, like "hugging" enemy's sword when he strikes if you don't have enough time to block, so it glances off. It's a risky move but if works sometimes (especially in thrusts) and you can get a free hit in with that.

[Robin.]

If this means that strikes will never glance off, then it's really bad, It's just stripping another layer from the combat. You can use the glancing off as an advantage in some points too, like "hugging" enemy's sword when he strikes if you don't have enough time to block, so it glances off. It's a risky move but if works sometimes (especially in thrusts) and you can get a free hit in with that.

It doesn't mean that, no. It doesn't work identical to warband but the principle is still there. It works better if you have better armour as well. But I think that's been explained how that works before.

[Kamikazuh]

Ah, good to hear. Thanks for clarification!

[ShaunRemo]

Just here to say I personally would love to have first person mode, I play much better this way and the combat actually feels close. the amount of detail in this game already deserves a first person view, and honestly it can't hurt to be implemented along side third person.

[Destraex]

I think first person could work if their was a little man at the bottom of the screen in full colour that you see from the back that is the animation man we normally see in third person. This animated man would show everything a 3rd person guy would see. The only disadvantage would be not being able to see people directly behind you, which I would think should be kinda normal but easily rectified by using a crazy ivan or having friends at your back.
It should be as simple as showing your third person character as smaller and at the bottom of the screen instead of in front of your you. This would then show the angle of blade.
Also the first person view would show your weapon as it swung past you and more clearly show blocks and approaching blades than what I have seen in the videos.
It would also allow more central blocking and hitting and other close in body attacks to be seen. You could make it so the hilt of any sword is always seen as an angle indicator to the side in first person.
This would not affect things since peripheral vision in the videos is so wide anyways.

What you would miss I guess is the character head turns giving you situational awareness. But really the first person head turning could be tethered to the first person camera in the same way the third person camera is. Meaning that your torso turns with your head and get a good look behind.

The little 3D man also means your get to see your awesome armour while playing in first person mode.

See this awesome mock up.

[Ragni]

I like archery as it is. Shooting your bow puts you at a risk because you lose some awareness. It makes pretty good sense to me and it's a good way to ensure that archery doesn't get OP.

[eublefar]

I play warband in first person view and i actually own.
So it would be nice to add as 1st person view as possibility to lock it on servers ,cause cmon those who likes 3rd person will play someother server while i can enjoy the game fully

[MiguelSnake]

Well, to write my oppinion, i think that archers are just perfect as they are now. I actually love the change to first person tu shoot the enemies, making them vulnerables to attacks from their back, and what i like more is the nonexistence of a zoom, which make them to be archers and not snipers.

[Destraex]

Well, to write my oppinion, i think that archers are just perfect as they are now. I actually love the change to first person tu shoot the enemies, making them vulnerables to attacks from their back, and what i like more is the nonexistence of a zoom, which make them to be archers and not snipers.

I agree archers look fine in the gameplay footage.

[d_funkt]

"We have tested a lot of camera positions and our conclusion was that third person works best for melee combat (for the peripheral vision reasons you mentioned amongst others) and first person for shooting and when you couch a lance. We are constantly testing and tweaking and re-evaluating our decisions, but I'm pretty sure that this is the way that we are going for."

What a shame they seem dead set on not allowing players and server-ops to make this choice for themselves. Adding a server-side option to lock perspective to first-person won't lose them any third-person fans since most servers will presumably opt for third-person (or player preference) anyway but including no such option is definitely going to cost them sales (mine and many of the people I play with at least and I'm sure we're not unique).

[Robin.]

What a shame they seem dead set on not allowing players and server-ops to make this choice for themselves. Adding a server-side option to lock perspective to first-person won't lose them any third-person fans since most servers will presumably opt for third-person (or player preference) anyway but including no such option is definitely going to cost them sales (mine and many of the people I play with at least and I'm sure we're not unique).

It would lose us valuable time we could spend improving on core mechanics though.