How many times do i have to say it? nerf muslims and nerf blobs

gman551 · Mar 19, 2012

Nerf them both into space, I'm sick of blobs and I'm sick of getting stomped by Muslims. Stupid caliphate, hre, ere, mauretania, Africa. Ilkhanate and timurids and golden horde later. This game would be so much more fun if it was more possible to have blobs be unstable. Instead I always end up starting as an Italian in south either salerno capua or napoli bc they're fun and they start in a place where getting squashed is a LITTLE less likely. But for the love of Pete let's nerd large nerf large kingdoms, make it easier for me to backstab and become king or breakaway myself please. Instead they're practically countries and don't feel like decentralized kingdoms like they're supposed to!

Raph · Mar 19, 2012

You know, I heard the mongols and the arabs pretty much beat the crap out of the christians in most of this time period...

gman551 · Mar 19, 2012

You heard wrong, and since that doesn't exactly make for s fun game then your argument is invalidated
. I'm okay with ahistorical as long as its fun, but with Muslims and blobs its just not

Comradebot · Mar 19, 2012

You know, there are games where the Caliphate breaks apart and the Mongols fail to get past Rus.

Raph · Mar 19, 2012

gman551 said:
You heard wrong, and since that doesn't exactly make for s fun game then your argument is invalidated
. I'm okay with ahistorical as long as its fun, but with Muslims and blobs its just not

So you mean that the crusades in fact succeeded, and the Middle East is full of christian nations? And the Mongols hordes didn't dominate the steppes for hundreds of years?

Hardeknut · Mar 19, 2012

Try playing with Bella Gerant mod. It makes rebellions more likely. In my game the mongols conquer all in their path but are constantly plagued by rebellions.

I really dont think muslims are so overpowered. I am in 1286 in my game and the only muslim nation left are 2 small ones in Libya and Egypt. The rest is divided between mongols, England, Wales, HRE and Denmark. There are even a few dukes with small holdings.

gman551 · Mar 19, 2012

Obviously you have completely missed the point of the thread buddy, at no point in my op did I say it was supposed to be historical. If you played ck1 the fun part was that anything could happen. On the second the same things happen every damn time.

However instead you decided to whine about how it is just like history, which has nothing to do with my topic. I'm talking Bout making the game FUN, not HISTORICAL. So I'd be fine with Christian states in the middle east or none at all as long as the game is fun but certain parts of it aren't

So enjoy your pathetic splitting of hairs thinking you've won a victory when in fact you haven't even read my op and like an idiot missed the point entirely. If you have something constructive go say about the gameplay mechanics that's great but if you just wanna piss and moan about how historically this happened and that happened go to another thread. I happen to have a degree in history and studied extensively in this area so don't go getting all snotty on me. Try reading the posts and get with the spirit of the topic, moron

Raph · Mar 19, 2012

gman551 said:
Obviously you have completely missed the point of the thread buddy, at no point in my op did I say it was supposed to be historical. If you played ck1 the fun part was that anything could happen. On the second the same things happen every damn time.

However instead you decided to whine about how it is just like history, which has nothing to do with my topic. I'm talking Bout making the game FUN, not HISTORICAL. So I'd be fine with Christian states in the middle east or none at all as long as the game is fun but certain parts of it aren't

So enjoy your pathetic splitting of hairs thinking you've won a victory when in fact you haven't even read my op and like an idiot missed the point entirely. If you have something constructive go say about the gameplay mechanics that's great but if you just wanna piss and moan about how historically this happened and that happened go to another thread. I happen to have a degree in history and studied extensively in this area so don't go getting all snotty on me. Try reading the posts and get with the spirit of the topic, moron

Ignoring the part of your post that might get you banned, you're right. I didn't respond to all of your post, and I'll tell you why. In my opinion, the game is more fun if it's historical. And I don't think muslims and mongols should be "nerfed into space" because that would take out challenge and historical accuracy from the game. I disagree that it's impossible to beat them in the first place.

However, I do agree that strong powers aren't weakened enough by civil wars. In realizing that, I tried to come up with ideas of why this is, and solutions to the problem. Then, I went to the bug report forum and wrote a proper suggestion instead of raging on the forum.

Veldmaarschalk · Mar 19, 2012

gman551 said:
So enjoy your pathetic splitting of hairs thinking you've won a victory when in fact you haven't even read my op and like an idiot missed the point entirely. If you have something constructive go say about the gameplay mechanics that's great but if you just wanna piss and moan about how historically this happened and that happened go to another thread. I happen to have a degree in history and studied extensively in this area so don't go getting all snotty on me. Try reading the posts and get with the spirit of the topic, moron

Insulting other forumites is not allowed. Please try to behave more civilized !

Ensiferum · Mar 19, 2012

Is not that hard to beat either the muslims or the Hordes if you have a strong and stable kingdom, like France, unified Iberian Peninsula, Italy, or HRE. Is somehow hard to believe that the King of Ireland, Scotland, Norway, Poland, etc should ever be able to beat the Muslim Caliphates. But is not impossible if you extend enough to field sufficient men to do blitzkrieg wars against them (like being able to destroy one of their main stacks and having enough other troops to siege your targets). This works every time, if you conquer all the provinces in a crusade and beat a doomstack or two, the AI gives up before war score reaching 75%)

MasterofMagic · Mar 19, 2012

gman551 said:
Nerf them both into space, I'm sick of blobs and I'm sick of getting stomped by Muslims. Stupid caliphate, hre, ere, mauretania, Africa. Ilkhanate and timurids and golden horde later. This game would be so much more fun if it was more possible to have blobs be unstable. Instead I always end up starting as an Italian in south either salerno capua or napoli bc they're fun and they start in a place where getting squashed is a LITTLE less likely. But for the love of Pete let's nerd large nerf large kingdoms, make it easier for me to backstab and become king or breakaway myself please. Instead they're practically countries and don't feel like decentralized kingdoms like they're supposed to!

I don't get stomped by them.....you must just be playing it wrong.

Comradebot · Mar 19, 2012

gman551 said:
Nerf them both into space, I'm sick of blobs and I'm sick of getting stomped by Muslims. Stupid caliphate, hre, ere, mauretania, Africa. Ilkhanate and timurids and golden horde later. This game would be so much more fun if it was more possible to have blobs be unstable. Instead I always end up starting as an Italian in south either salerno capua or napoli bc they're fun and they start in a place where getting squashed is a LITTLE less likely. But for the love of Pete let's nerd large nerf large kingdoms, make it easier for me to backstab and become king or breakaway myself please. Instead they're practically countries and don't feel like decentralized kingdoms like they're supposed to!

Fun fact: in my current game, the Sultanate of Africa got wiped out. The Aegean Islands beat the ERE for their independence, and went on in the coming years to conquer enough land to crown themselves the Kingdom of Africa. See?

Cyprus is also independent, and the only wars in the ERE at that moment were some Counts trying to take over Duchies.

darviathar · Mar 19, 2012

I am not in favor of weakening the Muslim nations. The problem with them isn't their strength, simply the fact that they stick together through thick and thin. If you start anywhere near 1066 the Seljuk Dynasty tends to rule pretty much every Sunni state. Start a war with one of them, and they whole gang piles on. This isn't so much a problem for Byzantium, as they can stand on their own, but I've yet to ever see the Crusader states last more than a few years against the United Muslim front. The Crusades wouldn't have had a prayer of success had the Muslim world been so serious about destroying them in 1100. It wasn't until the time of Saladin around the Third Crusade that they really begin to "strike back" at the Crusader states. This isn't represented at all in the game. I've yet to start a game in the 1187 scenario, but it seems that it is exactly what I'm going to have to do if I want to get a more historical representation of the time period.

Zorlond · Mar 19, 2012

I'm kinda annoyed with England in my current Navarra game. I don't deal with them personally, but I am becoming more and more concerned about their blobbing. France is nearly non-existant right now, and while I acknowledge that France got the crap beat out of it by England in this time period, it wasn't this extreme. And neither did France end up with two Mulsim Dukes as part of it's kingdom... I've seen a bunch of rebellions go off in England's borders, but the whole blob is still together and still eating France. I'm concerned because once that meal is done, it's either HRE, or Me. And the Iberian area looks a lot tastier.

(EDIT: Sorry about the pic size... But at least my concern should be visible now.)

Ran Miller · Mar 19, 2012

Raph said:
Ignoring the part of your post that might get you banned, you're right. I didn't respond to all of your post, and I'll tell you why. In my opinion, the game is more fun if it's historical. And I don't think muslims and mongols should be "nerfed into space" because that would take out challenge and historical accuracy from the game. I disagree that it's impossible to beat them in the first place.

However, I do agree that strong powers aren't weakened enough by civil wars. In realizing that, I tried to come up with ideas of why this is, and solutions to the problem. Then, I went to the bug report forum and wrote a proper suggestion instead of raging on the forum.

I totally agree with this.

As to the OP;

"How ignorant,
How entitled,
How sad."

First of all, there are so many variants so that one games "powerhouse" might not be the in another. Its called "repleyability".
Im fairy confident you based your post on 1 or 2 play's, in which you got owned by Muslims.

Because, I had quite a different experience in my games.
Judging by the mods made to actually "buff" pagans and Muslims id say more people share my view.

As for you getting tired of this and tired of that, why not pick a modding guide and "fix" the game.
Show paradox how they should have "nerfed" those blobs that pawn you, im sure many would like an easier game.
Perhaps adding an event "You win" will make you feel this game is more "balanced".

Say what you want, not many games give you the opportunity to change 90% of its content as easily as paradox (try) to do it.

As for your original question
"How many times do i have to say it? nerf muslims and nerf blobs?!"

I'd answer;
ONE MORE TIME!
With more passion this time, show us you really care!

No idea · Mar 19, 2012

In my games the little Christian kingdoms of Spain are wiped out, then France conquers half of Spain, becoming a monster. In the rest of Europe, the HRE becomes totally hegemonic, conquering left and right (well, perhaps it is just due to marriages). Basically, we get irrealistic big blobs, on that the OP is right, IMHO. The thing is that the HRE should not be as strong as it becomes. It was a political entity (if it might be called like that) interested in itself only. There was no expansion of it. Only the emperors looked beyond its broders, and only when political situation in the HRE allowed it, which was not very often. About France, it should not start with so many territories, Occitan culture ones (at least Toulouse and the mediterranean french coast), were totally independent of Paris in this time frame. The King of France only had a purely nominal title in those lands. This should be reflected in the game making at least Toulouse and Provence duchies independent (in fact, it would not be until the albigensian crusade, early in the XIII century, when these lands would be controlled by France).

With these changes, I think blobs would form with more difficulty.

s1234567890m · Mar 19, 2012

looks like OP might be intoxicated

RedRoverMan · Mar 19, 2012

Not entirely sure about the HRE, but yeah the ERE really does need to be nerfed into space. In all the games I have played (8-10), they have expanded ATLEAST steadily everytime, 4/5 times Doukas have no problem keeping control over them for the whole time and in my latest game the Byzzies were at the ARAL SEA by 1150.

Mightypeon · Mar 19, 2012

I think a simple elegant solution is to make revolters the defenders in their wars, who aquire warscore from holding their stuff.
I recently had Alger, rebelling from Mauretania, together with several other states, sign white peace, rejoin the Moor Kingdom and get imprisoned and executed.
Why?
A) I was also attacking Mauretania and killed their armies, as well as occupying stuff. They could not geet the neccesary war score
B) The other rebells divided the war score between them, meaning nobody actually got enough warscore to win.
C) Plots of "become independent".

A war of indepence should be fought defensivly by the rebel. If I rebel as Duke of Saxony, I should not have to invade the HRE Emperors Egyptian Holdings.

I do not think the Muslim are overpowered. As a matter of fact, there will nearly always be some weak ones on which you can pound. I am also worried that the Muslim land in North Africa etc. are by far to profitable for a christian conqueror.

Zorlond · Mar 19, 2012

I think there already is that sort of mechanism in place, at least for War of Independance revolts. Which makes sense. If the King can't get in there fast enough to smack the rebels around, they're effectively independant already.

Problem is, I don't think it works anywhere near fast enough, in relation to how quickly a King can assemble a doomstack and march it right on top of the Duke's home town. The vast majority of WoI rebellions fail absolutely miserably, from what I've seen.

How many times do i have to say it? nerf muslims and nerf blobs

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