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Thread: My worst problem in Victoria 2 right now.

  1. #1

    My worst problem in Victoria 2 right now.

    I am writing to you guys today to tell you what I am having the most problems with right now in Victoria 2. And ironically, it's probably the same thing that the AI is having a problem with too: Naval warfare.

    Naval warfare just doesn't seem that interesting to me! The costs are very high and once you've defeated the navy of the enemy you've got not much use for them except to block off trade from their navy ports! And from what I've seen, it doesn't really have that much affect on you even when you're fully blockaded. Sure it brings up your warscore a little bit, but besides that and hurting the economy of your opponent a little bit it doesn't really do much after they have had a chance to build up their economy and war-chest a little bit. So in recent games I have usually just disbanded my entire navy and ignored Navy tech in favor of a large land army capable of slaughtering their enemies easily.

    However, a few games with small nations with port provinces later and I'm starting to wonder if this is the best thing! The problem with having small nations with uber-teched armies is that it is often hard to hunt down and finish off enemy armies. There is just so much delay tactics that the enemy army uses that is coded into the game. For instance, the enemy having artillery units can greatly extend the amount of time needed to defeat an enemy army. It takes a new dice-roll turn for other units with 0 troops to retreat and the same for units with 0 morale. Battles last 12 days before the enemy army can retreat. You cannot attack enemy artillery units until there are no units in front of them. There is only time for two and 2/5ths dice rolls before an army is allowed to retreat. After you've taken this all into account, it can take a several province chase for you to finally defeat a 42k megastack from the enemy. And all of your hard work is for naught if the enemy army suddenly retreats into another 42k army stack! You've got to do it all over again.

    If it wasn't for these things happening so often, I would be happy to field a ubertech Army and ignore the Navy game. But you can't do that in the current build of Victoria 2 AHD. So in conclusion, it becomes necessary to participate in naval warfare and attack weaker uncivilized nations in order to build up your own armies to become equal to the enemy. What are the rules for such? How many frigates are equal to an Ironclad and how many Ironclads are equal to a Deathnaught? What navy ships can carry troops, how many troops can they carry, and how much is a good stack to bring them against the enemy with? Is it a good idea to try to cut a hole through Africa so that you are landlocked with the African land you wish to colonize later, or is it just more land to defend that a small nation like Greece cannot effectively defend against large empires?

    /End OP post.

  2. #2
    First Lieutenant minificelle's Avatar
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    Well, i tend to be like you and concentrate way more on land than on naval...But each time i neglect naval too much, i finally regret it.

    Naval wont help a lot for conquering or defending...
    But any nation that need to come with ships to invade you or help in a war will have hard time if it faces a good navy.
    Its somewhat easy to get some warscore with naval too.
    Naval helps in military score too...good for the score but also as a deterrent versus any country that plans to attack you.
    If you plan to go after England or USA, you need a decent navy too...and those two are, at least for me, priority targets late game as they tend to be well placed in the score.

    Well, thats some reasons why a good navy can help...there are a lot more im sure.

    As for the ubertech army...well, thats great if it goes with ubernumber too...because, lets face it, the 50k ubertech army will get crushed anyday by the 500k lessteched one.

    As for going against the uncivs, you seem to be reluctant to do so...For me thats the whole point of the game...Sure, historically blablabla...But the countries that ignored colonization in this time just failed IRL...If you ignore that ingame, especially as a small country, you fail just as well...

    As a European country, for example, i dont really see the point to fight for an european state, waou, get a state that produces the exact same thing i already produce in my country...I much prefer to go for tea, dye, gold, rubber etc...That will make me rich and able to afford army/navy upkeep...will help industry too...and everything you get, others dont...

    Oh, and you can colonize plenty of stuff, i mean, as much as you can afford infamy wise with like 6 clippers and 18k men, from day 1, so even a very small country can do it.

    Defending Africa with Greece or Great Britain is pretty much the same. You buy the troops there...with some shipping here and there...again, good navy can help there.

    For navy, my own personnal rule is i disband everything 2 techs away...aka, if im at cruiser, i will only keep cruisers and monitors/ironclads + transports (streamers).

  3. #3
    In late-game warfare, the navy is king. Especially if you're fighting a lot of Status Quo wars. The warscore that you get from blockades alone can usually get you Status Quo, and you don't even have to move your army anywhere. Additionally, you will absolutely NEED a good navy if you want to fight the UK/USA/France, unless you really, really want to deal with endless 50k high-teched doomstacks from a total force of over 3 million. I wrote a long post about naval warfare before AHD came out, which you can find in my post history.

    Combat, in general, is kinda slow in AHD. Like you said, land battles take weeks, and even months in the later game, and a really huge doomstack-on-doomstack naval battle might last longer than the war. I think there should be Navy and Army techs that increase the number of dice rolls that happen per day, so that battles end up taking less time as the game progresses. Something like, If you have level-1 Dice Tech, you can get one dice roll per day, and if you fight someone with level-2 Dice Tech, they get 2 dice rolls per day and use the higher of their dice rolls for the battle. This provides an incentive for each nation to research Dice Tech, because they would get better dice rolls when more chances. BUT the number of dice rolls that occur per day is the minimum number of levels for Dice Tech for the opposing sides; so level-2 Dice Tech army against a level-3 Dice Tech army will have 2 dice rolls per day. This makes battles go faster, since the damage/ORG/morale losses accumulate faster.
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  4. #4
    Naval warfare is perhaps one the worst implemented models in V2. It bears little resemblance to naval warfare of the era and represents none of the strategic challenges, it ruins the immersion of the game.

  5. #5
    East vs West developer kunadam's Avatar
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    For me naval warfare resembled the land warfare very much. It is about sending superstack to each other and otherwise "occupy", i.e. block harbors.
    What am I missing? How was naval war in the era in real life?
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  6. #6
    Covert Mastermind Demi Moderator Secret Master's Avatar
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    It's not like that. Armies have width, which regulates how many brigades can be in combat at one time. Navies don't have that mechanics, so there are no limitations to super-stacks (as far as I can see). If you overstack your armies, you are fighting less efficient if your width is at a certain point.
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  7. #7
    Major brycef's Avatar
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    No doubt about it, naval warfare in V2/AHD is just not that realistic, historical, reliable or fun. However if you want to be a Great Power you need a navy. V2 is all about world colonization and conquest of weaker peoples in far off places. To protect the commerce that flows from your colonies and far off territories back to your core country you need a navy.

    If you don't have one, then you're allowing any two-bit power to hamstring your economy by blockading you. If they successfully blockade you then you are starting the war with a negative warscore before you even occupy a province or fight a land battle. So you need a navy to match any other power that might threaten you. My rule is to try to build a navy 1 1/2 times in size to my nearest rival. A big navy gives them second thoughts about attacking you, whereas no navy means they can blockade you, land forces anywhere they feel like it on your coast, occupy all your overseas colonies and territories, etc.

    Yes the naval warfare model in the game is kind of half-baked and ineffiecient, unrealistic and simplistic...but it has a function in the game that is important.
    Brycef
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