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Thread: The First Global War

  1. #21
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    1756, On the edge of War

    Although Austria had actively prepared for a renewed war with Prussia ever since 1748, it was still taken by surprise when Prussian forces invaded Saxony on 29 August 1756.



    Her alliance with France, including French subsidies had been agreed in January 1756 and the French had also entered into an agreement to fund Bavaria in March. Bavaria had suffered badly in the War of Austrian Succession and had reduced its army to 5100 Infantry and 1190 Cavalry (who only had 270 horses between them). The French subsidy allowed the recruitment of the 10,000 strong Auxillary Corps.

    Equally France and Britain had been in an undeclared war since 1755 in North America. This was steadily escalating and both sides had sent fresh regular battalions to reinforce their armies on the continent. In Europe, itself, the two clashed at Minorca where a French force under the Duc de Richelieu, with 20,000 men, seized Fort San Filipe that guarded Port Mahon.


    (Fort San Filipe, a classic example of the star shaped fortresses built in the early years of the Eighteenth Century)

    To celebrate, de Richelieu ordered his personal chef to prepare a new dish, Sauce Mayonnaise, and the British responded by shooting Admiral Byng. Byng was blamed for being defeated despite having superior numbers (13 ships to the 12 French) when his formation was disrupted at the start of the battle.

    However, the Prussian invasion of Saxony caught Austria ill-prepared (and also surprised Prussia's British ally) but not completely unprepared. Browne, at Prag, had 2 corps to hand and a third under Piccolomini nearby. Equally substantial forces were marching towards Wien from Hungary, Italy and Croatia. The hope was that the large, if ill-trained and poorly led, Saxon army would delay Frederick long enough for Austrian reinforcements to reach the front and France to enter the war In Europe.


    (the forces available to Browne at, and around Prag, when the Prussians entered Saxony)
    Last edited by loki100; 25-03-2012 at 17:22.

  2. #22
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal View Post
    The Prussian troops have one main advantage : their speed. All their troops move 35% faster than their enemy.

    Also, Austrian troops tend to be considered "heavy" for frontage purpose when the equivalent Prussian troop would be "medium".
    which given the evidence that for all their improvements in fire drill etc, the Austrian battle line remained inflexible, sounds perfectly correct ...

  3. #23
    Historically plausible Dewirix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loki100 View Post
    To celebrate, de Richelieu ordered his personal chef to prepare a new dish, Sauce Mayonnaise, and the British responded by shooting Admiral Byng. Byng was blamed for being defeated despite having superior numbers (13 ships to the 12 French) when his formation was disrupted at the start of the battle.
    Poor Byng. There was quite a spat surrounding the case, and I think even the court martial advised the King to pardon him, but George wouldn't have any of it. There was a BBC documentary on the Royal Navy a while back which suggested a link between the fate of Byng and the subsequent aggressive behaviour of British commanders, as evidenced by Quiberon Bay. Pour encourager les autres, indeed.
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    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewirix View Post
    Poor Byng. There was quite a spat surrounding the case, and I think even the court martial advised the King to pardon him, but George wouldn't have any of it. There was a BBC documentary on the Royal Navy a while back which suggested a link between the fate of Byng and the subsequent aggressive behaviour of British commanders, as evidenced by Quiberon Bay. Pour encourager les autres, indeed.
    aye, there was little he did wrong, he put his ships into the admiralty approved battle order and then part of his flotilla got ahead of the rest, so he broke off rather than lose the entire squadron. It wasn't the Soviets who invented the idea of killing relatively innocent commanders in order to concentrate the minds of the others ... & given the awesome record of the RN in the period 1756-1815 its hard not to argue that it failed to have the desired effect.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal View Post
    The Prussian troops have one main advantage : their speed. All their troops move 35% faster than their enemy.

    Also, Austrian troops tend to be considered "heavy" for frontage purpose when the equivalent Prussian troop would be "medium".
    I must have played more than half a dozen RoP campaigns in multiplayer alone, yet I didn't know that. One new thing I learned from you guys.
    Checked the model files, it seems this advantage only applies to Prussia itself. Its allies (GB, Hannover, ...) don't profit from this exception. This provides a valid reason to keep them in seperate armies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal View Post
    That was a nasty surprised. I always wondered how the Saxons could have a chance to survived except with a Prussian blunder ; now I know.

    It is still not solved, and I believe the Saxons will still disappear from the map. Loki100 has not thought of all the parameters (or so I believe).
    I am very interested to see whether you will succeed in escaping the Pirna trap. In the previous versions the event was written in a way that made it impossible. I have yet to try the latest patch. Has the event been overhauled?


    Good luck to both of you. I love how one can already feel the plotting between you two.

  6. #26
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bornego View Post
    I am very interested to see whether you will succeed in escaping the Pirna trap. In the previous versions the event was written in a way that made it impossible. I have yet to try the latest patch. Has the event been overhauled?


    Good luck to both of you. I love how one can already feel the plotting between you two.
    Totally by accident, I've found a game breaking problem. In effect a small Hussar force just next to Prina cannot be detected (it has a hide of 5, 2 base, 1 small, 1 mtn, 1 passive), so the whole Prussian juggernaut comes to a halt while they hunt 300 Hussars around a mountainside. In effect, I can cut any mountain pass in the game. We've modded up the detect values so that other light cav can catch Hussars in poor terrain and Dragoons can catch them in clear terrain and agreed a couple of house rules (around not exploiting the passive stance). I still think the Saxons are doomed & that if they run to Austria they will surrender, so I'm trying to make Narwhal have to fight them to finish them off, or sit in a siege over winter (every Prussian killed in Saxony is one less outside Prag in 1757).

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by loki100 View Post
    To celebrate, de Richelieu ordered his personal chef to prepare a new dish, Sauce Mayonnaise, and the British responded by shooting Admiral Byng.
    I like the juxtaposition of that sentence: it reads like a slightly demented dialogue (the French: "Hear, we won this great victory over you British! Let's celebrate with some nice new food!" The British: <Shoot Admiral Byng> "That to your stupid little sauce!") And must say, the British sound like sore losers here.
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  8. #28
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuyvesant View Post
    I like the juxtaposition of that sentence: it reads like a slightly demented dialogue (the French: "Hear, we won this great victory over you British! Let's celebrate with some nice new food!" The British: <Shoot Admiral Byng> "That to your stupid little sauce!") And must say, the British sound like sore losers here.
    actually the sauce (no the source, must not do bad puns as this is a serious AAR ) for the French cuisine goes on to claim that for the next 7 years under French rule, Minorca effectively had a long rather fun party till the British turned up again and spoilt all the fun ...

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by loki100 View Post
    actually the sauce (no the source, must not do bad puns as this is a serious AAR ) for the French cuisine goes on to claim that for the next 7 years under French rule, Minorca effectively had a long rather fun party till the British turned up again and spoilt all the fun ...
    I seem to remember the wiki page for mayonnaise saying that the Port Mahon origin story was tenuous at best. The rest of it seems about right though: Britain was hitting its stride at the turning up and wrecking people's fun business.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bornego View Post
    I must have played more than half a dozen RoP campaigns in multiplayer alone, yet I didn't know that. One new thing I learned from you guys.
    Checked the model files, it seems this advantage only applies to Prussia itself. Its allies (GB, Hannover, ...) don't profit from this exception. This provides a valid reason to keep them in seperate armies.
    I noticed the speed difference a long time ago (and used it quite a lot in my game versus Baris - you can see that when I need to go fast I never mix forces) but just discovered the frontage thingie by looking at Loki100's pic.

    I learned quite a few from you, especially the "division" trick to create units quickly : add the created unit in a division, and now you have more free space.


    I am very interested to see whether you will succeed in escaping the Pirna trap. In the previous versions the event was written in a way that made it impossible. I have yet to try the latest patch. Has the event been overhauled?
    Spoiler : even the wizard hussars could not allow them to escape (so far). We have quite broken the game already - see AGEOD's forum, and we are starting to stack a bit too much house rule + mod for my taste.
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  11. #31
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal View Post
    Spoiler : even the wizard hussars could not allow them to escape (so far). We have quite broken the game already - see AGEOD's forum, and we are starting to stack a bit too much house rule + mod for my taste.
    Ok, some general info. We've decided on a fresh start (no big deal as we'd only played 3 turns) as this was proving game breaking. What I've done is to mod the unit values so all cavalry except Cuirassiers and Guards have a +1 bonus on detect, that plus agreeing not to use the passive stance will make my light cavalry a real threat, but one that can be dealt with in the confines of the tools the game gives you. I suspect Narwhal is going to have to pay quite a lot of attention to rear area security which in turn will slow his onslaught in 56-57. I've also agreed as a single rule not to put those Hussars into Dippo_place (I forget the name) on turn 1, but I think I can see another way to keep open communications to the Saxons.

    The second thing we've noticed is the new patch really changes siege work. Since this is WAD we've decided to go with it. What we find is you can't get MC easily over 95% in a province with a fort and that means the garrison still pulls in fresh supplies for quite a while after you open the siege (it may, we're not sure, be a product of besieging army size so a large army will suppress province supply more quickly). Either way, if you want to take a fortress by starvation, it looks like it'll take an entire campaign season, so concentration of siege guns and being tied to the siege will become a feature of the campaigns (I think this sounds right). This will harm us both at different stages, Narwhal obv at the start but my French campaign in the Rhineland and Russian around Koenigsburg will be hampered too, as well as making it harder to retake any key fortresses if I do loss them.

    If anyone wants the files with the revised model values feel free to pm me and I'll send them to you.

  12. #32
    Alien Space Bat PrawnStar's Avatar
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    I'll subscribe, I'm really getting into the current AGEOD AARs - without ever playing a game.

    Enjoyable writing as always loki


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  13. #33
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrawnStar View Post
    I'll subscribe, I'm really getting into the current AGEOD AARs - without ever playing a game.

    Enjoyable writing as always loki
    thank you ... I'd have thought with your anti-rebel skills that you'd be a superb RUS player (make some mistakes in that one and the map turns green with rebels). The system is ideal for MP and that gives the AARs a certain flavour (I think). Unlike in the main Paradox games where MP is great fun but you have to simplify your play style, in the AGEOD games its every bit as considered as SP and you have to worry about a very creative imagination plotting your demise ...

  14. #34
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    The Saxon Treachery and the initial moves in Bohemia, 1 September 15 October 1756

    The Prussians moved quickly to exploit the command differences between the Saxons and the Austrians. Despite their notional alliance, there had been little contact and little trust after what Marie Theresa saw as their treachery in the earlier War of Austrian Succession.

    As Browne organised his forces at Prag and prepared to move to join the Saxons, it was clear that at least 3 major Prussian armies ringed Northern Bohemia with the capacity to threaten Saxony, drive towards Prag and to invest Koenigratz in the east. Browne, badly outnumbered, had to choice the correct response and quickly.




    While the main forces prepared for active campaigning, Lobkowitz with several Dragoon battalions was ordered to join the Hussars of the Advance Guard, if possible they were to establish contact with the Saxons and guard the east bank of the Elbe, keeping a line of communication open between Browne and Rutowski



    By mid-September it was clear that the Saxons had avoided battle by retiring into the fortified camp at Pirna. With a well supplied army of 15,000, Rutowski was expected to hold for months and accordingly Browne moved north from Prag, halting at Budin while his reserve brigades caught up



    Unfortunately, the Prussian force to the east of the Elbe was strong enough to deter the planned Cavalry raid but Browne estimated his force would be able to engage the Prussian force screening Prina at Dippoliswalde by early October.



    However, in act of quite stunning treachery, Rutowski chose to capitulate on 2 October 1756 abandoning his Austrian allies. Even worse, the bulk of his army was incorporated into the Prussian army, Browne had lost an ally and seen his main enemy grow in strength overnight.



    The march to Lobositz was called off, and Picolimini was ordered to join the main force in an attempt to deter a direct Prussian attack on Prag. Hopefully Koenigratz would prove to be strong enough to stand on its own.




    (the layout of the Prussian forces)

    Kollowrat with 4 Infantry brigades was ordered back to Prag to cover the city [1] in case the Prussian outflanked Browne and the bulk of the army took up a defense line at Budin. Palisades and ditches were dug in the pouring rain [2] while a Prussian attack was feared at any moment.



    [1] - I have to thank Baris for this warning, he reminded me of Narwhal's habit of slipping a force down the east bank of the Elbe to threaten Prag and/or your supply lines
    [2] - which rain fortunately delays Narwhal's abilty to exploit the stunningly early Saxon collapse, they could have lasted to the end of October and they unlocked in early Oct (ie I could have used them to kill some Prussians)

  15. #35
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    And so it started... Unfortunate those pesky Saxons chose to give up so early, though.

  16. #36
    Losing the Saxon army is a huge blow. There was a lot of artillery and supplies there, and Austria can't build arty( you can build Saxon arty in western bohemia though). I'd try to hold Prag at all costs and hope for an early winter.

  17. #37
    Field Marshal Stuyvesant's Avatar
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    Ouch. Seems Maria Theresa's misgivings about the Saxons proved to be well-founded. I don't know if it throws a spanner in the works, but it certainly puts you firmly on the defensive (even more firmly than to begin with).

    Good luck and let's see how quickly winter will come to your aid. I'm also looking forward to your future actions with the Swedes and the Russians, and how different they'll be from the last AAR the two of you did.
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  18. #38
    Historically plausible Dewirix's Avatar
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    You were always going to be on the back foot, but it's unwelcome news to lose the Saxons without at least doing some damage to the Prussians. Still the rains seem to have taken the sting out of the defeat.

    I take it the plan is just to hold on in Austria and try to do something with the French and Russians?
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by De_Spinoza View Post
    And so it started... Unfortunate those pesky Saxons chose to give up so early, though.
    it almost can't get any worse, not only did they surrender at the first option making Prag a very plausible target in 1756 now, the weather clears to a nice dry autumn, so Narwhal can march as fast as he wants ..., things are very tense at Prag and I'm on my 8th iteration of a block of orders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Searry View Post
    Losing the Saxon army is a huge blow. There was a lot of artillery and supplies there, and Austria can't build arty( you can build Saxon arty in western bohemia though). I'd try to hold Prag at all costs and hope for an early winter.
    Well I'm near to the classic dilemna, do I preserve the army or the city? On balance I can lose Prag and survive, if I lost most of Browne's army then even the mass of Austrian units that pile up at Wien over winter won't really give me a powerful Austrian army to carry on the war ... choices, choices ... & if by some fluke I pick right, Narwhal is badly out of position as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuyvesant View Post
    Ouch. Seems Maria Theresa's misgivings about the Saxons proved to be well-founded. I don't know if it throws a spanner in the works, but it certainly puts you firmly on the defensive (even more firmly than to begin with).

    Good luck and let's see how quickly winter will come to your aid. I'm also looking forward to your future actions with the Swedes and the Russians, and how different they'll be from the last AAR the two of you did.
    Winter is late ... very late. Swedes, will stay snug and warm in their fortresses till I have a really good use for them, Russians I've been playing around a bit with the options. With the new patch you can now get them across Poland in force, but I've seen all sorts of odd Prussian units wandering off to Koenigratz/Kalingrad, so I suspect Narwhal wants me to stay in E Prussia in 57 and possibly 58.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewirix View Post
    You were always going to be on the back foot, but it's unwelcome news to lose the Saxons without at least doing some damage to the Prussians. Still the rains seem to have taken the sting out of the defeat.

    I take it the plan is just to hold on in Austria and try to do something with the French and Russians?
    The ideal version is to fend off any threat to Prag this campaign year, the Austrian army will more or less double just with the scripted reinforcements (that is before anything I raise), so if I can meld that new force with the opening Prag army, I think I have enough for 2 operational groups (& can get these formed up by May-June 57). The relatively useless Bavarians give me another column. So if I ride out 56-57, I can put pressure on everywhere and if Narwhal is still up to his armpits in Austrians, then the French at least can operate relatively freely in the Rhineland, even if (as above) Russia is blocked in E Prussia.

    One of the many delights of this game, esp PBEM, is you have to think relatively long term, positioning troops and leaders for where you may need them later etc, but also you need to deal with the alligators currently chewing away at you as you drain the swamp.

  20. #40
    Lt. General Narwhal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loki100 View Post
    [1] - I have to thank Baris for this warning, he reminded me of Narwhal's habit of slipping a force down the east bank of the Elbe to threaten Prag and/or your supply lines
    In retrospect - LoL. It is exactly what I did.

    I hope Baris did not tell you TOO much.

    it almost can't get any worse, not only did they surrender at the first option making Prag a very plausible target in 1756 now, the weather clears to a nice dry autumn, so Narwhal can march as fast as he wants ..., things are very tense at Prag and I'm on my 8th iteration of a block of orders.
    Except for that round of rain, and Keith failing a forced march I could not have been more lucky at this point : shortest possible surrender of Pirna (2nd turn), excellent weather all around and not snowing even though we are in November.

    Prag is within grasp of my main army, and 50% to 75% of the Austrian army is not where it should be, i.e. fortified at Prag. Too bad Keith's column is lagging behind, it makes my decision making a bit more complicated.

    I am not so much out of position as in case of failure I can evacuate through the East. It would not be a good position for the 1757 campaigningopening, but my force will still be full strength and I could strike either Koeniggratz... or further South


    Winter is late ... very late. Swedes, will stay snug and warm in their fortresses till I have a really good use for them, Russians I've been playing around a bit with the options. With the new patch you can now get them across Poland in force, but I've seen all sorts of odd Prussian units wandering off to Koenigratz/Kalingrad, so I suspect Narwhal wants me to stay in E Prussia in 57 and possibly 58.
    I perfected the method I used against Baris... and also found a few possible counters.
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