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Thread: Damn Germany!

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ericB View Post
    Alasce-Lorraine are as much German as California is Mexican!!!!!

    Or, if we agree on your proposition, then a good part of Burgundy proper + Franche Comte shall also be add (As Himmler wanted that for his SS).

    You are confusing btw population speaking dialects linked to old german, population with german culture, and german population! While Alasce-Lorraine do have population with german culture, most of the population were/are NOT german (the german population moved back after 1648 ... long ago it is not). While half of franche Comte dialectes are originating from germany; the population there is of french culture (since 1648 and La Couzon).

    No reasons to adapt the map, but to deeply hurt a lot of people; none of the French provinces you named (and those I added ) were core province of Germany (But yes were part of HRE, as all provinces East of Rhone River ... 500 years ago).
    One of the major points Germany made against France was the loss of these territories at the end of WWI (17 years prior). They form a very strong natural barrier and were coveted for strategic (not cultural) value when originally annexed after the Franco-Prussian war in 1870. The loss of these territories was seen as an insult to Germany (France felt very much the same in 1870. The fact of the matter is, during this century, both Germany and France had claimed the Alsace-Lorraine region as part of their rightful domain.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericB View Post
    Or, if we agree on your proposition, then a good part of Burgundy proper + Franche Comte shall also be add (As Himmler wanted that for his SS).
    The demand for Burgundy/Franch Comte was not nearly as strong or widespread as the demand for the return of Alsace-Lorraine, which had in fact been a part of the German Empire for approximately 48 years only 17 years prior.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericB View Post
    Alasce-Lorraine are as much German as California is Mexican!!!!!
    Qute, but Mexico sold its claims to California to the US. And it only ruled the land from 1821 till 1847. Also, California declared independence and Mexico realized that it couldn't hold the land so they sold it to the US, to make it a US problem.

    Germany on the other hand, owned and controlled Alasce-Lorraine from 1870-1918 and Germany surrendered to the Allies because the US guaranteed that no territorial changes would occur at the peace table and no reparations would be paid.

    The UK and France did not agree when the Germans showed up at Versailles. And after having both taken land and demanding war-reparations, they set up the future for another World War. But Germany had not given up its claims to Alasce-Lorraine. Even in December of 1936, the French offered to give back Germany its colonies in Africa in return for Germany giving up all of its claims in Europe. Obviously the French thought that the German claims were strong enough that they did not want to give them up. And trust me, I literally was looking at the Los Angeles Herald from December 26, 1936, just 2 hours ago at my parent's house and reading the article. So YEAH, GERMANY had CORES on the region.
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  3. #23
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    Don't CORES reflect the willingness of the population to be a part of the claimant as much as the actual claims maintained? That's what is implied in giving the full IC, MP and leadership; the population works diligently for their new masters, as opposed to sabotaging and only cooperating because of threats of violence and imprisonment. None of the territories mentioned had cooperative populations, Alsace-Lorraine least of all. Much like their counterparts in the Eupen-Malmedy in Belgium, they identified more with the France and had to be forcibly conscripted into the German armed forces.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogitor View Post
    Don't CORES reflect the willingness of the population to be a part of the claimant as much as the actual claims maintained? That's what is implied in giving the full IC, MP and leadership; the population works diligently for their new masters, as opposed to sabotaging and only cooperating because of threats of violence and imprisonment. None of the territories mentioned had cooperative populations, Alsace-Lorraine least of all. Much like their counterparts in the Eupen-Malmedy in Belgium, they identified more with the France and had to be forcibly conscripted into the German armed forces.
    The same issue existed in Germany. Not everyone liked the NAZIs and lots of people worked against their regime. The question is, was the population as a whole in revolt or was it single individual factions? With the Communists in some parts of Germany, before the rise of Adolf, you could make the same argument that 1/3rd of the German population in Germany, was not CORED.
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  5. #25
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    Isn't that what dissent is for?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogitor View Post
    Don't CORES reflect the willingness of the population to be a part of the claimant as much as the actual claims maintained? That's what is implied in giving the full IC, MP and leadership; the population works diligently for their new masters, as opposed to sabotaging and only cooperating because of threats of violence and imprisonment. None of the territories mentioned had cooperative populations, Alsace-Lorraine least of all. Much like their counterparts in the Eupen-Malmedy in Belgium, they identified more with the France and had to be forcibly conscripted into the German armed forces.
    Quote Originally Posted by cogitor View Post
    Isn't that what dissent is for?
    He's right on both accounts. A core is not the same thing as a claim. A core is a claim, but a claim is not always a core. There's a subtle yet very important difference between the two. Often whenever the inevitable "Germany needs more cores!" argument comes up, the person arguing for more cores is always forgetting what cogitor said in post #23.

    Now, having said that, I tried to fix the situation in the CMP to do what's been suggested, and Paradox vetoed the cores in France, but the cores in Poland were added in the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact events. So, hopefully in the next patch Germany will get cores in Posen, Upper Silesia, and West Prussia.
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  7. #27
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    Well, until PI gives us a working Blitzkrieg that doesn't require 4-6 months to take France, they can give Germany some COREs to make up for the massive manpower losses that are taken, attempting to take those lands.

    May 10, 1940 to June 14, 1940. That's how long it should take to go through the Low Countries and obliterate French, Dutch and Belgian resistance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_France So, if they don't wish to hand some COREs to Germany then they need to add some sort of a bonus to Germany for the Danzig Corridor, that reduces the time delay by 24 hours or something. Because currently Germany blows if its not player controlled.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by SonofWinter View Post
    Well, until PI gives us a working Blitzkrieg that doesn't require 4-6 months to take France, they can give Germany some COREs to make up for the massive manpower losses that are taken, attempting to take those lands.

    May 10, 1940 to June 14, 1940. That's how long it should take to go through the Low Countries and obliterate French, Dutch and Belgian resistance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_France So, if they don't wish to hand some COREs to Germany then they need to add some sort of a bonus to Germany for the Danzig Corridor, that reduces the time delay by 24 hours or something. Because currently Germany blows if its not player controlled.
    you need 5-6 months to beat france? even the AI is usually faster then that. you can easily beat france while still fighting in poland. i would suggest you take a look at the latest beta lua files. they are a huge improvement but be warned they have a couple of problems at the moment especially in asia.
    the problem with a bonus or a modifier is that the human player does also get it and playing germany is already far to easy.

  9. #29
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    I don't need 5-6 months but it sure feels like 5-6 months.

    Also, playing any nation as human player is easy. I can take the UK and defeat Germany. Does that mean that the UK is easy, I certainly say its much easier to play the UK than Germany.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by SonofWinter View Post
    I don't need 5-6 months but it sure feels like 5-6 months.

    Also, playing any nation as human player is easy. I can take the UK and defeat Germany. Does that mean that the UK is easy, I certainly say its much easier to play the UK than Germany.
    another reason not to add modifiers that makes playing those countries even easier.

  11. #31
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    Doesn't that mean that US, as an Allied member, should gear up for an epic struggle with the USSR?

    If the USSR controls all of German Europe, than I think the allies will wind up losing as the game score goes.

    I do think part of the strategic challenge of the allies is to play the Soviets and Germans off against each other...

  12. #32
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    you could save the game, reload as Russia, take auto control off and move all of their forces (detached from Theatre HQ because thaey will just cancel the order) to a distant place in the Far East or (to be a jerk) you could DISBAND all of their forces in the field and in production tab (takes time and is worth it). However, if when you reload back as the U.S. you will have to straighten things out.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonofWinter View Post
    Well, until PI gives us a working Blitzkrieg that doesn't require 4-6 months to take France, they can give Germany some COREs to make up for the massive manpower losses that are taken, attempting to take those lands.
    If you play on harderst, that may be true. But I've never known the AI as France lasting more than two months - right now, France is insanely nerfed, in my opinion. Historically, France did indeed fall pretty quickly, but that doesn't mean it should be inevitable in-game. Far from it, if the French command had taken only a few different decisions (not sending all their best troops into the low countries to get surrounded), the accidental Blitzkrieg might have never happened. All alt-history seems to focus on "what if Germany had done this-or-that, they might have won the war". Why can't France ever do "this-or-that" and do better than they did in real life...

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonofWinter View Post
    Well, until PI gives us a working Blitzkrieg that doesn't require 4-6 months to take France, they can give Germany some COREs to make up for the massive manpower losses that are taken, attempting to take those lands.

    May 10, 1940 to June 14, 1940. That's how long it should take to go through the Low Countries and obliterate French, Dutch and Belgian resistance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_France So, if they don't wish to hand some COREs to Germany then they need to add some sort of a bonus to Germany for the Danzig Corridor, that reduces the time delay by 24 hours or something. Because currently Germany blows if its not player controlled.
    This is bogus. I take France down in 3-5 weeks on normal, 6-8 weeks on very hard settings.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmChairAttila View Post
    This is bogus. I take France down in 3-5 weeks on normal, 6-8 weeks on very hard settings.
    Not France, all of it. The Low Countries included.

    Fall Rot, the attack from the Low Countries against France, literally took place from June 5 to June 14. In 9 days, France fell to the Germans. This is not being represented.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonofWinter View Post
    Not France, all of it. The Low Countries included.

    Fall Rot, the attack from the Low Countries against France, literally took place from June 5 to June 14. In 9 days, France fell to the Germans. This is not being represented.
    When I play Germany I only use the DiG mod. I only play Germany on very hard these days. I attack the west when I have researched Fall Gelb. This is a event that DoW's all the Benelux countries at the same time. I use the original attack plan through Luxemburg. Even if I run into troubles I still will have Paris surrounded at the latest of 8 weeks. Key is focused air superiority, 2 well placed para-drops and all your mechanized force in reserve in Bitburg. Let your MTN/INF punch two holes through Luxemburg and unleash the panzers + paras. Patience is key in taking France fast.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmChairAttila View Post
    When I play Germany I only use the DiG mod. I only play Germany on very hard these days. I attack the west when I have researched Fall Gelb. This is a event that DoW's all the Benelux countries at the same time. I use the original attack plan through Luxemburg. Even if I run into troubles I still will have Paris surrounded at the latest of 8 weeks. Key is focused air superiority, 2 well placed para-drops and all your mechanized force in reserve in Bitburg. Let your MTN/INF punch two holes through Luxemburg and unleash the panzers + paras. Patience is key in taking France fast.
    Why are you even responding to anything I write, if you don't play FTM 3.05. Your mod has nothing to do with this conversation. And calling anything I say, bogus is only vaild if you actually play the same game I am.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonofWinter View Post
    Not France, all of it. The Low Countries included.

    Fall Rot, the attack from the Low Countries against France, literally took place from June 5 to June 14. In 9 days, France fell to the Germans. This is not being represented.
    France only fell because their army was encircled in the battle for the Low Countries. If that hadn't happened, they would have fought a bloody fight. If you fail to encircle the French Army, you have to fight it. If that's too much tor you to handle, start the game in '41. What do you want, an event that would make France collapse after a set time? They already have no national unity, no industry and nerfed manpower and leadership, and an AI that will send its troops to the Netherlands to get encircled. How much easier does it have to be?

  19. #39
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    What I want is for Germany to have decreased delay to represent their ability to outpace their enemies, showing up in places where their enemies were retreating to. It is what the Germans excelled at. They broke through and moved on forward with their tank divisions without having a 72 hour delay because an HQ unit got in their way.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by SonofWinter View Post
    What I want is for Germany to have decreased delay to represent their ability to outpace their enemies, showing up in places where their enemies were retreating to. It is what the Germans excelled at. They broke through and moved on forward with their tank divisions without having a 72 hour delay because an HQ unit got in their way.
    If a HQ unit is encountered, there shouldnt even be a battle, the HQ retreats and the Armored division carries on...
    Obstacles do not exist to be surrendered to, but only to be broken.

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