I hope this game will be as polished as..

[apg]

crusader kings 2, i don't know how many of you have played it but the presentation of the game and its stability are incredibly professional.

Overall i have been very impressed and hope that magna mundi will follow suit.

[Swedish Steel!]

crusader kings 2, i don't know how many of you have played it but the presentation of the game and its stability are incredibly professional.

And it was also a game that bored or perhaps rather frustrated me after a week

[Descri]

CK2 was very well done, it was an incredible experience to play such a polished Paradox game, but it still suffers from the same things that always bugged me about all Paradox games (except Sengoku): They are absolutely game-able and totally implausible. I wish there would be a Magna Mundi mod for CK2 :|

[Arbus]

crusader kings 2, i don't know how many of you have played it but the presentation of the game and its stability are incredibly professional.

That's because it is professional! CK2 is the best looking Paradox internaly developed title to this date, it had great marketing (the deadly sins videos are awesome), the graphics are absolutely great, no stability issues, it runs fast on most machines, and it has only minor bugs. Of course balance can be improved, of course there are gamey exploits and implausible expansion, but all that is moddable and adaptable to everyone's taste.

CK2 has been developed using the best of the best Paradox can offer after years of experience in game development. Magna Mundi is being developed by an entirely different team, by people with little or none previous experience in making games, who are not even full time game developers, and don't even work in the same place. Comparing both games is like comparing a James Cameron movie to that school project you made with your friends in the 5th grade (alright I'm exaggerating, that school project you made in high school).

So don't expect Magna Mundi to have the same level of presentation as CK2, that's unrealistic.
Expect Magna Mundi to be Magna Mundi, nothing more and nothing less.

[Hister]

Meh, Magna Mundi is going to be light years better in it's content then CK2 can ever be.

[Kaarle XII]

I agree that it's unrealistic (and also unfair!) to expect the same level of polish from Magna Mundi.

[Swedish Steel!]

Meh, Magna Mundi is going to be light years better in it's content then CK2 can ever be.

Yeah this is why as someone who is already familiar with the MM team I don't care how well they present it. I already know that Magna Mundi will be far better than CK2.

[Aulus]

I, too, expect it to deliver in content more than presentation, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It means there's room for at least one expansion.

[wolfing]

I, too, expect it to deliver in content more than presentation, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It means there's room for at least one expansion.

The problem is with people (like me, I confess) that sees MM as EU4 so we're expecting something to that level.

[Swedish Steel!]

The problem is with people (like me, I confess) that sees MM as EU4 so we're expecting something to that level.

I think MM would/will for us be better than EU4 because Paradox designs quite ''vanilla'' games whereas UV knows its niche (depth & plausibility pretty much) and does it well. If a guy thinks EU3 is a complex, plausible, enjoyable game then he's gonna think EU4 will be even better but to jaded people like us... Magna Mundi is all there is

[Duckett]

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect Universo Virtual to develop a polished game. Plenty of small studios release top notch games, if I didn't think this game was going to be polished I wouldn't be so interested in it. Even if it can't be perfected to the developer's ideals upon release, I'd expect it to be at least completed to the point where it can feasibly be perfected through patches.
I'm also thinking of Magna Mundi as Europa Universalis' successor, I was unimpressed when III came out but all of the features in Magna Mundi I've heard about so far sound Excellent.

[Johan]

That's because it is professional! CK2 is the best looking Paradox internaly developed title to this date, it had great marketing (the deadly sins videos are awesome), the graphics are absolutely great, no stability issues, it runs fast on most machines, and it has only minor bugs. Of course balance can be improved, of course there are gamey exploits and implausible expansion, but all that is moddable and adaptable to everyone's taste.

CK2 has been developed using the best of the best Paradox can offer after years of experience in game development. Magna Mundi is being developed by an entirely different team, by people with little or none previous experience in making games, who are not even full time game developers, and don't even work in the same place. Comparing both games is like comparing a James Cameron movie to that school project you made with your friends in the 5th grade (alright I'm exaggerating, that school project you made in high school).

So don't expect Magna Mundi to have the same level of presentation as CK2, that's unrealistic.
Expect Magna Mundi to be Magna Mundi, nothing more and nothing less.

Professional developers are those that get paid to do a game. Both teams have gotten paid roughly similar amounts of money by a publisher to create a game, and both will be sold for money to customers.

Both games are developed professionally and will be sold professionally.

I am flattered about being compared to James Cameron, but my ck2 team is about 1/4th the size of the MM team, and had about half the development time. It has a lot of talented individuals, but several devs there had not made any games before CK2 started. With a competent designer and project leader like Doomdark though, a game can truly shine...

Me, King, Besuchov, etc were not involved directly in CK2 other than helping out at times.. And I've logged more hours on Magna Mundi while I was producer for it, than I did on CK2 in the same timeframe.

Magna Mundi will be released as a polished quality product.

[novapaddy]

Well said Johan.

I never really got into EU3, as I'd already been "contaminated" by the Hearts of Iron series, and I found it difficult to get my head settled into a game with a different approach.

That's why I'm looking forward to Magna Mundi. It is going to be my first time to really get stuck into this kind of game. And with the reputation of the Devs, I'm doubly wanting it soon...

[Arbus]

Magna Mundi will be released as a polished quality product.

Of course, I don't doubt that, or that both games are developed and sold professionaly, meaning both have high quality standards. What I meant was, (and I greatly exaggerated the comparison for humorous reasons) that both teams are completely different, and a Paradox internaly developed title has a lot more know-how and expertise, than a team of people who don't work full time on game development, that work from different cities/countries/continents, for a company that is developing a game for the first time. Different people, different stories, different games.

[Hister]

Excellent Johan, thanx for the insights!

[Ran Miller]

CK2 was very well done, it was an incredible experience to play such a polished Paradox game, but it still suffers from the same things that always bugged me about all Paradox games (except Sengoku): They are absolutely game-able and totally implausible. I wish there would be a Magna Mundi mod for CK2 :|

Funny, i see this as a pro not a con. Adds to re-playability when the outcome is radically different.
CKII is a game worth buying. As it is, out of the box.

I am very curious as to how MM turns out.

[Descri]

Funny, i see this as a pro not a con. Adds to re-playability when the outcome is radically different.
CKII is a game worth buying. As it is, out of the box.

I am very curious as to how MM turns out.

But the different outcomes are only really worthwhile if you feel they could really happen. A great Granadan Empire is not what I'd call plausible.
Also a lot of the times the outcomes of game like EU3 are implausible AND repeat themselves, for example the early fall of OE that happens right now, which is really odd from a game design perspective.

Basically I agree with you, but I want the many outcomes to feel as if they could've happened IRL.

[k_merse]

Basically I agree with you, but I want the many outcomes to feel as if they could've happened IRL.

And that's exactly what we're trying to achieve with Magna Mundi. This does not make the game deterministic, because we doN't have features which would determine the fate of a country, we just make things very likely to happen. But if you play enough games, you may see an OE collapsing, a HRE minor Austria, a never-existiong United Kingdom, a missed Reformation, a forever struggling pair of Castille and Aragon etc.
It is not likely that these scenarios will occur, but there is a possibility.

[Dawkins]

In my CK2 game I am currently controlling Britain, Half of France and southern Italy without really breaking a sweat. I really hope this won't be possible with MMtG!

[DanubianCossak]

In my CK2 game I am currently controlling Britain, Half of France and southern Italy without really breaking a sweat. I really hope this won't be possible with MMtG!

Hmmmm i think its a bit unfair to put "everything" into "polished" basket. I think what Johan and Paradox people mean by "most polished" game, is that there is nothing game breaking in it on release date; from technical point of view CK2 had the least CTDs of any Pdox game i tried (on release and even in patched versions in some cases), had practically all game features and mechanics work as designed and compared to some other titles was optimized so well that it makes me wish it was EU4 instead.

What you are talking about could probably be classified into game "balance", where the result of game has tendency to go ahistoric too much in most of the games. But the important thing to remember is that balance can be fixed with couple of patches (it takes a lot of time and effort to get it right, and even then it can never be perfect trust me), while broken mechanics, engine not optimized etc would probably take months if not an expansion to fix / get right.