Rubber, and where to find it

[mbrasher1]

Considering the importance of rubber in the late game economy, I figured it'd be good to have a list of exactly where the world's rubber is. The rubber events start kicking it in 1880, with MTTH of 36 months in. Early rubber can be found here:
province_id = 1354
province_id = 1364
province_id = 1367
province_id = 1382
province_id = 1384
province_id = 1385
province_id = 1386
province_id = 1389
province_id = 1402
province_id = 1404
province_id = 1827
province_id = 1829
province_id = 1833
province_id = 1836
province_id = 1837
province_id = 1848
province_id = 1850
province_id = 1890
province_id = 1891
province_id = 1923

These provinces include
Siam - 1
Cambodia - 2
Dai Nam - 1
Johor Bahru - 2
British Singapore - 2
Jambi - 2
Egypt - 5
Ethiopian Asmara - 2
Liberia - 2
Lagos - 1



In 1890, more provinces get rubber. Later rubber can be found in:


trigger = {
year = 1890
or = {
province_id = 1926
province_id = 1929
province_id = 1931
province_id = 1932
province_id = 1957
province_id = 1986
province_id = 1988
province_id = 1989
province_id = 1996
province_id = 2192
province_id = 2317
province_id = 2318
province_id = 2319
province_id = 2321
province_id = 2402
province_id = 2404
province_id = 2405
province_id = 2549
province_id = 2550
province_id = 2600

These are translated into
Lagos - 1
Benin - 1
Warri - 2
S Cameroon - 1
Congo (Kasai, Katanga x 2, Congo Orientale) - 4
USCA - 1
Bolivia - 4
Brazil - 6


Of these rubber producing regions, the following draw strong GP interest (meaning you have to fight for them with DPs or military might)
Egypt
Brazil
Siam
Jambi (assuming the Netherlands is not a GP)

These produce some interest:
Johor Bahru
USCA

These produce minimal GP interest
Cambodia
Bolivia
Dai Nam
Ethiopia

I never realized that Egypt had rubber (in Halaib and Khartoum regions). Usually, I only entered the Egyptian scrum for Dumyat/Suez Canal. I don't know if the Kahrtoum and Halaib rubber is worth the infamy, but if you crippled Egypt during the seizure of Dumyat, it'd make a nice addition to Ethiopia (if Ethiopia was on the menu next). Bolivia's rubber is half in La Paz region, which is often targetted by Brazil. So Brazil can end up with 8 rubber regions. Looking at the rubber provs that have little GP interest, it might prove a good return on DPs to sphere/annex them. The other provinces are all colonial regions, mostly concentrated in West and Central Africa.

Given that no rubber producing land (with the exception of Dutch and British colonies) will produce automobiles, sphering these places is pretty much the same as owning the resources.

[Sakkura]

The GPs often stalemate in Egypt because they're all so obsessed with it. Then it's easy to roll in and conquer whatever you like (rubber in the south + Suez, usually).

Sphering is not fully comparable to owning, for two reasons:
1. You only get 100% access if the owner is an unciv.
2. With better tech you can dramatically increase the rubber production.

[Risa]

2. With better tech you can dramatically increase the rubber production.

In case of rubber, not necessarily. Rubber provinces are usually jungle provinces, so there is inherent -40% on province RGO size. Event modifier from electricity, tractor, and retailer each applies a -15%. And there are several -1% from various tech and invention. In the end the RGO size can shrink to as small as 4% of original. Even with 1000% output efficiency, its total production is still lower than the same province under unciv's control. (4%*1000% < 60% * 100%)

[Secret Master]

Most uncivs will civilize by the end of the game now, if they manage to survive and not succumb to 20 reactionary rebellions. That means that once they civilize, they are going to require foreign investment in order for you to retain your 100% market share even if they are in your SOI.

And since denying someone else rubber is the same as killing their production of late game valuable stuff, taking the rubber hit for conquest is preferable to letting some rubber slip out to other countries because a revolution removed them from your SOI or you got bored and stopped micro-managing your SOI and someone else snagged them.

[GAGA Extrem]

Regarding rubber - I don't know if it is related to the "output -> throughput" change from AHD or other stuff (mentioned RGO size penalty above?), but there seems to be an ENORMOUS rubber shortage during the late game.
I recently played a game as Belgium and was able to take over most of the African rubber provinces in W Africa plus egypt and sphered the South American and Asian nations, so I controlled roughly 30-40% of the global rubber production, yet I was barely able to supply more than 30 combined levels of rubber-using factories.

In fact, it seems that automobiles, planes and tanks are no longer worth tech rushing or even producing with AHD. Most of the time I had a healthier and more profitable industry when I focused on synthic oil / fuel / electric gear / radio / telephones. And after more than a dozen playthroughs, I conclude that this is not coincidal behaviour.

Did anyone else run into these rubber shortages?

[Risa]

I have only one game past 1900+ so far, and I didn't encounter that rubber problem in that game. Also, in that game autos and planes were quite profitable.

Regardless, I think there should be a synthetic rubber factory in late game. Industrial synthetic rubber began mass-production in 1920s to 30s in real life, after all.

[Secret Master]

Yeah, I see rubber shortages late in the game with the beta patch.

The amount of rubber is so short that I have to slip back into interventionism from LF sometimes to reallocate some labor. My capis will export hordes of electric gear to the WM, but I'd rather they just produce enough to cover my needs and spend the rest of the rubber on cars and planes.

I was going to bring it up once my current game as France was over. I've practically got 90% of Africa blocked off and should have it completely colonized by the 90s. We'll see how much rubber I can extract with Africa colonized and the Netherlands in my SOI.

[Biges]

Hm. In the RL the economomy would come up with a substitute or increase the rubber utilization. Any way to portrait this in V2?

[Secret Master]

Increase the RGO size of rubber provinces?

That way, when demand goes up, at least people can migrate and work at those rubber plantations. The pay would be great, considering how high the price of rubber gets once demand spikes.

[mbrasher1]

I was going to bring it up once my current game as France was over. I've practically got 90% of Africa blocked off and should have it completely colonized by the 90s. We'll see how much rubber I can extract with Africa colonized and the Netherlands in my SOI.

The Dutch might go an make their own auto factories, then their rubber would be mostly used. Getting "Place in the Sun" CBs might be useful for this. It is possible to get the entirety of Africa colonized, if you start with a base in West Africa (Danish Ghana is useful for this) and block off the entry points by colonizing the coasts north and south, while working over from Egypt's rubber provinces plundered early in the game.

I do try to get alot of rubber, but I do draw the line on infamy. Taking states from USCA, Brazil, Bolivia involve alot of infamy. I think I'd rather have 2 Chinese concessions for the infamy involved.

[Deadlybaker]

well Egypt must be everyones first country to declare war, especially if you are greece, italy, spain, portugal. not just for rubber but there are many nice stuff you can earn from it. siddi barani is definetaly best to get in ur first war, and rest later. Ottomans can never defend their african lands coz egypt will never give them military access.

[Secret Master]

I've just finished my France game. It looks like I have discovered what is probably the realistic "peak rubber" point. I colonized all of Africa, sphered Brazil and the Netherlands (built lots of infrastructure, too), and conquered Egypt//Sokoto/Ethiopia. My rubber RGOs are full, and have had max technology for some time. (All those province modifiers have already fired for all of them.)

The results:






The UK has more rubber than normal because they conquered part of the Dutch colonial empire before I could sphere them.

At the end of the day, you can't realistically budget on more than 800 units of rubber a day. And if you want most of that, you need to colonize/conquer Africa and sphere/conquer Brazil, Bolivia, Siam, the Netherlands, Johore, Liberia, Peru, and probably a few other places I am leaving out.

[paulthebug]

Secret Master,
Yeah, rubber is the bottleneck resources for late game.
I owned 100% of rubber producing provinces, my supply number is about the same as your pictures, but my demand is twice as high as yours. My automobile/ electronic gear / etc factories are all losing money because of the resource bottle neck. Yet demand remains unsatisfied.
Should had a synthetic rubber invention...

[mbrasher1]

Would it be worth an NF on a rubber producing province to increase immigration (for more workers in the RGO)? Also, is it worth not converting a colony that has rubber into a state (since some of the RGP workers would migrate to factories)?

[Vaya con Queso]

I think there's a small problem with your list; "Ethiopian Asmara". Doesn't that province belong to Egypt, initially?

[Secret Master]

Would it be worth an NF on a rubber producing province to increase immigration (for more workers in the RGO)? Also, is it worth not converting a colony that has rubber into a state (since some of the RGP workers would migrate to factories)?

RGOs only fire workers when they aren't selling all their goods, so I don't think turning it into a state would be a bad idea. Those rubber plantation workers make good money because rubber has a great price thanks to high demand. There's no reason for those rubber workers to change over to another job (since you aren't going to NF that state for craftsmen, I presume). You might lose a few workers due to promotion here and there (some farmers are going to turn into aristocrats since they are making good money), but I don't think changing it to a state will hurt your rubber production significantly. If I am wrong, let me know, as its a big decision.

An NF for immigration might help, but most of my rubber RGOs were sitting at 100% anyway. I think I had 2 that were not 100% in my last game, but they were damn close. With the right techs, though, you should have plenty of POPs moving to your colonies anyway.

[mbrasher1]

I think there's a small problem with your list; "Ethiopian Asmara". Doesn't that province belong to Egypt, initially?

Yeah, in the game I was looking at Ethiopia had conquered it from Egypt. You are right; it starts as an Eggy province.

[marnues]

Note that Asmara also has a precious metals mine, so after the Suez is built someone in Europe is likely to take it.