I (Nerdator) am in the game lobby.
I apologize for not reading it Enloc, just went over it and I guess I was... SLIGHTLY, wrong. Test it out extensively but im still partially against it.
1) Infantry. 60 cards, 18 factories. 10 obstacle/fortification units, 5 artillery units. No tanks, no SMG, Partisans, NKVD. No more than 3 ZiS-3.
2) Naval Brigade. 60 cards, 18 factories. 10 obstacle/fortification units, 5 artillery units. No tanks, no NKVD, no more than 1 Partisans. No more than 3 ZiS-3.
3) Stationary. 60 cards, 15 factories. 25 obstacle/fortification units, 5 artillery units. No non-fortification supports. No land doctrines. Tank and infantry restrictions — as in Infantry.
His decks didn't have any tanks or airplanes, we tried his Wespe deck, but he didn't even have to use Wespe to win, and managed to win against my Stationary deck in 13 turns. We didn't try my Naval Brigade deck, I also wonder if anyone would try to make a Romanian deck following the conditions I described above (no tanks except Armoured Infantry and no airplanes).
i would do a romanian deck, but i only have 2 of those pesky 25pdr´s so i think im missing to much firepower for a serious test
Put together a Romanian deck... cant do much besides a weak arty deck without air or tanks, pretty much stuck with 2 doctrines, probe and inf attack (waitin in lobbdy to try it out right now)
The limitations for Axis are fine.
Maybe some less restrictions for Comintern (have 1-2 NKVD or Partisans in deck)?
Even without Tank or dual ?/Tank Axis has a lot of good units to face Comintern.
My decks were very simple, with a combination of Infiltration Tactics, Infantry Assault and a lot of battle phase units: 88mm, Nebelwerfer, MG...
Combined with 81mm, Engineer and some nasty surprise (like Counterbattery Fire) I was able to crush enolc defense.
We could wait for Romanian deck and then revise the rules.
We are strong, we are patient, we'll win
what do you think of such rules for axis light infantry
1) max 3 copies of each card - "light divisions were reduced in size compared to standard infantry" - wiki
2) only light armour tanks + stugs/wespe
3) no fortification cards
4) ME, Inf probe, Infiltration, Stoss, Kessel, or command confusion
5) Must have at least 15 cards with the ability to swap
15 swapping cards...wouldn´t it be too much? Also, that would make easier to guess which cards will the opponent use, IMO.
right, that was M4j. M. proposal for normal deck building so maybe 9 swap cards? I don;t know how much types Axis have
15 swap units sounds way to much, especially with only 3 of each.
Krads - ok useful to some degree
PSW 222 - very limited use
Rommel, Feuerbrigade, Counterattack - all 3 very limited use without heavy tanks.
Organisation Todt - useless.
105mm, prep bomb, preemptive,counterbattery and wespe - They have there use, but effectivly u would turn the *light division* into a forced arty deck.
you know, "light" means that there are smaller not arty-free : ) and that's just proposal I can build something like this from my cards and try it with commies infantry deck
Real - Game u know, although they had arty in real, focring a deck to pack as many will turn it into a arty deck for the most part, without having the doctrine for it.
though my comment was made with 15 swaps required, which in most cases would have been 3 krads and 12 of those arty cards (and if we keep wespe limited as suggested befor, therea no real choice anymore)
with 9 required swaps its down to 3 krads and 6 arty cards, much more playable, but in the end it doesnt realy reflect the *Light* for me personally.
Why dont you just limited the # of battle ranged kill power? This would put more emphasis on using Kessel to make up for kill power which would represent the lack of heavy equipment hence "Light" while still allowing flexibility in deck design.
The 3 of each card restriction is very controlling. The 15 requirement was designed with 5 Krads in mind. perhaps just simply allow 5 Krads, since they would make up the most of a recon group.
Light divisions are not recon though so that is an important point to be made.
I (Nerdator) will be around the game lobby for some time today and in the evening tomorrow, so if anyone has made up a Romanian deck (Narfi? Nymet?), feel free to hit me there. I have updated my decks a bit since the matches with Dugrim, but without violating the initial restrictions. I also would be interested in seeing someone make an air support deck for the Axis Infantry.
As to the Light Divisions: as far as I know, these formations were restricted in manpower and heavy weaponry, having fewer regiments and much less artillery than line infantry, while having some specialised and better-equipped units, including tanks and other armoured vehicles (essentially, it was a clumsy mixture of an infantry division and a tank division). There was one such division in this battle -- 28. Division (left flank), and it had very limited success.
I like Nymet's idea about restricting units according to their damage since it would make a close enough approximation to how this unit would act IRL.
I propose that for the Light Division there should be the following conditions:
1) No supports that do kills. Simply, no 88mm.
2) No tanks that do kills, and no Wirbelwind (since it didn't exist until 1944). So, Pz III, M41/14, PSW, StuG, and perhaps Pz IV (if someone itches to spam tanks).
3) No artillery.
4) If Kesselring is used with this unit at all (I think being able to use ME against a player that has no tanks is an advantage enough), there should be a restriction similar to what we had, IIRC, in Op. Overlord -- you can put as many as you like in your deck, but only one is allowed to be played.
Last edited by enolc; 21-03-2012 at 21:12.
Tried a Romanian deck vs Enolc, felt really basic, either you use arty or pray you can get within 2 feet to kill via mech inf/engy. Not only that but since I was using an arty deck and there really isnt much else to use, Enolc brought in some arty himself which he too kind of has to, due to a lack of available unit types so I had a field day picking his arty apart whenever they showed up. Ofc once I walked into a wall of fort regions and MG pillboxes it became a starring match until one of us moved, without priests punching through is impossible, and since I have no 25-pounders I wasnt even at full avilable strength (though I believe 25pounders arent even allowed)
The problem I personally believe is that there just isnt enough card types in game yet for these type of strict restrictions.
25-p. are perfectly fine. Well, as I said in-game, allowing VT should make the whole thing livelier (I didn't really think of VT when I said "no allied-specific doctrines" in the first place).
like i said, without 5x 25pdr theres no point in trying. and yes MG-pillbox can put a hold onto them, but luckly those are just Supports, so u can bring in 2x 25pdr+engi, just need to watch for Maxim HMGs