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Thread: CORE 0.60 Dev Diary

  1. #21
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    There are two sides to this:

    1.) Soviet susceptivility to attack in case of no M-R pact:
    As far as I know this behaviour is already coded, either via vanilla or via CORE.

    2.) German deployment / Barbarossa Ai:
    As far as I know this is a potential problem, since there are very refined events that deploy Germany along the M-R line and attack Russia when deployment is sufficient, but none that cause similar behaviour along the former Polish/Soviet border.
    That´s actually the first thing I have to check when I come around to doing this.

    T.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  2. #22
    Colonel Dichromate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegetthoff View Post
    There are two sides to this:

    1.) Soviet susceptivility to attack in case of no M-R pact:
    As far as I know this behaviour is already coded, either via vanilla or via CORE.

    2.) German deployment / Barbarossa Ai:
    As far as I know this is a potential problem, since there are very refined events that deploy Germany along the M-R line and attack Russia when deployment is sufficient, but none that cause similar behaviour along the former Polish/Soviet border.
    That´s actually the first thing I have to check when I come around to doing this.

    T.
    Well tbh 'no M-R pact' is a major deviation, far more so than the west abandoning Poland, since it all but ensures an early Soviet-German war.

  3. #23
    Colonel Dichromate's Avatar
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    Also just wanted to ask:

    are you keeping the 6 battalion/9 battalion divisions? I really hope not personally because the way AOD deals with concentration of firepower (stacking penalty based on number of *divisions*) means having slightly more numerous but weaker infantry divisions really hurts compared to ARMA where it was mostly flavor, since as far as the stacking penalty is concerned, a division is a division.

    Also you might want to look at revising some of the beach provinces in North Africa - at the moment there are way too many places along the Libyan/Egyptian coasts that can be invaded, which tends to result in some really stupid things happening when the AI fails to garison them. Third Reich Mod ended up getting rid of most of them, keeping beaches only at the port provinces - Triopoli, Benghazi, ect. Italy as an AI *should* fail in North Africa, but not because the British land without resistance 300 km behind their lines.

  4. #24
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    The 6bat / 9bat divisions are just too deeply imbedded in the mod to change them. Getting rid of single ships already was hellish.

    But you may put your finger on one of the remaining problems: while we now have the initial phase of Barbarossa under control and the Germans penetrate a fair distance and are then stopped in an ai/ai confrontation, they currently have a tendency to suddenly break through in 1943. That is a phase when both sides are moving 20-30 division stacks around the map and where the AoD combat logic might cut in.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dichromate View Post
    Also you might want to look at revising some of the beach provinces in North Africa - at the moment there are way too many places along the Libyan/Egyptian coasts that can be invaded, which tends to result in some really stupid things happening when the AI fails to garison them. Third Reich Mod ended up getting rid of most of them, keeping beaches only at the port provinces - Triopoli, Benghazi, ect. Italy as an AI *should* fail in North Africa, but not because the British land without resistance 300 km behind their lines.
    Agreed. I also see this in the reverse: British initial success in North Africa tends to be crushed when Italy lands on the coast of Libya or Egypt and takes Alexandria when nobody's watching...
    Most Serene

    (Currently working on: Mod1914)

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Tegetthoff View Post
    The 6bat / 9bat divisions are just too deeply imbedded in the mod to change them. Getting rid of single ships already was hellish.
    Hellish ... but worthwhile
    To be honest I am pretty impatient to try the new CORE, especially as my main gripe with CORE will be gone away.

    But you may put your finger on one of the remaining problems: while we now have the initial phase of Barbarossa under control and the Germans penetrate a fair distance and are then stopped in an ai/ai confrontation, they currently have a tendency to suddenly break through in 1943. That is a phase when both sides are moving 20-30 division stacks around the map and where the AoD combat logic might cut in.
    Good luck on it.

  7. #27
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    The whole purpose of writing Dev Diaries is to make you impatient! ;-)
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegetthoff View Post
    The 6bat / 9bat divisions are just too deeply imbedded in the mod to change them. Getting rid of single ships already was hellish.
    So how did you guys resolve this and have you had a chance to see how it impacts naval AI? Did you go for something like 4 ship divisions/flotillas for destroyers and submarines, stack the IC and time costs and take something like the median of the combined ship values for combat roles? Curious because I've wondered myself how to transition them. 1:1 ship representation sounds like a much better way of modeling the naval aspect of the time, just a shame that it hampered the AI.
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  9. #29
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    The naval AI now handles flottillas a lot better. With single ships, there were huge super-stacks sitting in reserve for any nation.

    Flottillas are now 3 - 4 ships, with new unit icons and symbols that show how many ships are represented by the unit.

    Stats are along the lines you mention above, but Dec152000 did the details.



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    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  10. #30
    Colonel Dichromate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegetthoff View Post
    The naval AI now handles flottillas a lot better. With single ships, there were huge super-stacks sitting in reserve for any nation.

    Flottillas are now 3 - 4 ships, with new unit icons and symbols that show how many ships are represented by the unit.

    Stats are along the lines you mention above, but Dec152000 did the details.



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    noice.

  11. #31
    War is over! if you want it Titan79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegetthoff View Post
    Flottillas are now 3 - 4 ships, with new unit icons and symbols that show how many ships are represented by the unit.

    That's a nice addition, Tegetthoff, but - before you start making all the models - wouldn't it be more eye-saving (especially for us astigmatics ) to write that figure in arabic numbers (maybe in brackets, in order not to mistake it with the tier level of the unit) while the tier level itself would be written in roman numbers?

    An example of what I mean:

    “Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized: in the first it is ridiculed, in the second it is opposed, in the third it is regarded as self-evident” (Arthur Schopenhauer)


  12. #32
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    That´s a good suggestion, but the model icons are already done. Of course any alternative download is welcome, as an add-on to CORE.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  13. #33
    War is over! if you want it Titan79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegetthoff View Post
    That´s a good suggestion, but the model icons are already done. Of course any alternative download is welcome, as an add-on to CORE.
    Of course . We'll see. Currently it would be too time consuming for me, but maybe later...
    “Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized: in the first it is ridiculed, in the second it is opposed, in the third it is regarded as self-evident” (Arthur Schopenhauer)


  14. #34
    Well have to see them in game to tell witch one is better, but the titan's one look better initialy especialy the roman tier numbering, but thats just me.

  15. #35
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    March 28, 2012 Dev Diary

    Ok, I guess you guys want a dev diary. Much of the changes made were to brigades, and since Dec made them I am still just beginning to understand them. So maybe writing up the naval brigade changes will help you and me ....


    naval_antiair_l ... AA Cruiser Conversion (this used to be a separate tech if I am not mistaken)
    naval_antiar_s ... AAW Destroyer
    naval_asw ... ASW Escort Carrier air group
    naval_fire_control_l ... BC fire control
    naval_fire_control_s ... Fleet destroyer optimisation
    naval_improved_hull_l ... Cruiser fire control
    naval_improved_hull_s ... Scout destroyer
    naval_mines ... Heavy submarine
    naval_radar_l ... BB Fire control
    naval_radar_s ... ASuW destroyer
    naval_sa_l ... BC and BB secondary batteries
    naval_spotter_l ... Light AAA batteries (BB/BC/CA/CV/TP)
    naval_spotter_s ... ASW destroyer
    naval_torpedoes_l ... Submarine Euqipment
    naval_torpedoes_s ... Torpedo Destroyer
    b_u1 ... Escort Carrier Air Group
    b_u2 ... Capital Ship Design (enables certain Capital Ship features for existing/dormant units)
    b_u3 ... Cruiser Design (like b_u2, just for cruisers)
    b_u16 ... Large Submarine Equipment
    b_u17 ... 610 mm Torpedo Destroyer

    You can guess that b_u4 to b_u15 are used for other brigades we´ll cover later, though some of them are the air brigades already covered.

    So you see that now you can build seven types of destroyer:
    AAW, Fleet, Scout, ASuW, ASW, Torpedo and 610 mm Torpedo (JAP only)
    And you can attach AA batteries to Carriers and Transports
    And you have two different specialisations for Escort Carrier Air Groups
    And a battleship can have four attachments in CORE

    You may also realise why Dec has spent several weeks modifying the attachment preference and research AI, because also the AI should know when to build and how to use those attachments.

    As an extra, let´s work through b_u2 (BB/BC systems):

    models 0 to 2 are 1910, 1920 and 1930 type BB/BC (non buildable, but for existing units)
    model 6 is "Commerce Raider"
    model 8 is "Large Battleship" (ITA: Vittorio Veneto)
    model 10 is "Fast Batthelship" (ENG: Queen Elisabeth)
    model 12 is "Heavy Armour" (GER: Scharnhorst)
    model 16 is "Heavy Armament" (USA: New York)
    model 20 is "Improved Fast Battleship" ( USA: Iowa )
    model 24 is "Improved Heavy Armament" ( USA: Montana )

    And here is a screenshot of the naval tech tree. No basic changes, just some rearrangement and clarification:



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    Last edited by Tegetthoff; 28-03-2012 at 20:16.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  16. #36
    Lt. General
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    There are so many possibilities to add AA guns, even to TP However, will CV attacks still count as "long range guns" thus ignoring the AA value?

  17. #37
    Major The-Doc's Avatar
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    Are those all the naval brigades? Sounds simple and sensible.

    Could you tell me, in general terms, what the difference is between the destroyer types? Most of them sound pretty self explanatory, but what about the torpedo, scout and fleet destroyers?
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  18. #38
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    This is going to be awesome!

    It's a shame we can't have in-game descriptions of those techs - it can get quite confusing for all of us who are not WW2 savy. Thus I would ask if you plan to implement simple descriptions of all the techs and models in the manual - that would be so much more helpful...
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  19. #39
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    Well, modding is a lot more fun than manual-writing, believe me. Which sort of explains the state of the manual.

    T.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  20. #40
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    Any planned changes to whether a country can change it's economy type?

    For example, no matter how many IC Finland builds or captures, it never is considered for an upgrade to Semi-Industrial economy.
    Should this be able to change depending on the number of IC a country can produce? Maybe with earliest potential upgrade years etc.
    Depending on other factors, this may also be able to work in reverse (province captures, strategic bombing etc).

    IMHO, there should be a potential upgrade path from Agricultural > Pre-Industrial > Semi-Industrial > Industrial.

    #C

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