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Thread: Death will stand grieving in that field of war - A Red Drang Campaign PBEM

  1. #21
    Field Marshal Stuyvesant's Avatar
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    Rumor has it, Budyenny wasn't prepared to share the glory with a man that had a mustache half the size of his own magnificient specimen.
    How could Budyenny ever accept the humilitation of sharing anything with such a half-man who can't even create a proper set of whiskers? Totally understandable, totally acceptable.

    So far, so good. You've wrong-footed the Kaiser (while still tearing up the Polish countryside) and have gained valuable time to crush the Southern Whites (and who would've thought you would've needed as much time as you did? ). I look forward to seeing how this plays out, particularly with Axe27's impressive maulings of Soviet Armies in mind. You have, as you said, the advantage of manpower (and you had some valuable extra time to prepare), but will it be enough to offset the huge (initial) advantage that the Germans have in numbers, quality and leadership?
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  2. #22
    Imam Of The House in Imp. Off. Herbert West's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symple View Post
    This is your tutorial. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...BEM&p=13120971
    You will find this AAR explains and shows so much.
    Thx.

    Though the game seems kinda expensive. Almost 30 euro. (for my budget anyway).
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  3. #23
    Expensive is buying a game you do not play. All the money on something never played.
    Cheap is buying a game you love. You will love this game.

  4. #24
    Field Marshal Stuyvesant's Avatar
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    Herbert West,

    Here's my two cents' worth: it is a rather expensive game, and the mechanics are so very different from the tried and true Paradox games... That said, I never regretted getting it (and I got it when it was 40 Dollars/Euro), even as I'm yet to play more than a handful of turns in any game. For me, part of the pleasure in owning it is that I 'get' the AARs that much better. And another part is that it's truly unique in portraying that particular conflict - there simply is no other choice for the Russian Civil War.

    I will say that I fully plan on eventually sitting down and playing the game substantially, so that weighs in my decision whether it was money well spent.

    All I can suggest is that you play another AGEOD game first (if you've been signed up for the Paradox newsletter sufficiently long, you might have code for a free Wars in America 2), or at least tinker with a few demos. The RUS demo doesn't give you a lot to go on (as far as I can tell, none of the tutorials/scenarios included touch on the longer-term issues of using decisions, or really recruiting troops and forming corps/armies), but it will definitely give you an idea of how the main component of the game (movement and battle) works. So I would say that if you like the vibe from the other games/demos, then you'll probably like the full game. Just be aware that there is a definite learning curve (but then again, you've played Paradox games before, so you're used to that ).
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuyvesant View Post
    So far, so good. You've wrong-footed the Kaiser (while still tearing up the Polish countryside) and have gained valuable time to crush the Southern Whites (and who would've thought you would've needed as much time as you did? ). I look forward to seeing how this plays out, particularly with Axe27's impressive maulings of Soviet Armies in mind. You have, as you said, the advantage of manpower (and you had some valuable extra time to prepare), but will it be enough to offset the huge (initial) advantage that the Germans have in numbers, quality and leadership?
    Excellent summary. I am currently playing the Germans in another PBEM. Time doesn't work as much for the Russians as I thought it did. Germany is not able to build infantry at anything near the same pace as the Soviets due to its limited conscript pool. On the other hand, Germany has an almost unlimited supply of money and war supplies. Artillery and tank units require very few conscripts! The Kaiserreich can pour these things out like candy bars from a schocolate factory whereas they are luxery items for the Reds. It's an interesting race: as the Soviets try to catch up in quantity, the Germans further distance them in quality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert West View Post
    Now thats what I call a grinder.

    You guys seem pretty good at this game, and RUS might be the thing to hook me to AEGOD after the PON disaster. Any chance of a "tutorial" AAR?

    Keep up the carnage!

    (Can you afford to take such losses if you are outnumbered 2 to 1?)

    That was nothing but the appetizer. The main course will offer slaughter by the tens of thousands.

    The casualties I suffered in the South were but small potatoes. (Ouch, that sounds cynical. ) If you play the Drang Campaign, everything below 10.000 men soon seems like a bargain price.


    Quote Originally Posted by Symple View Post
    This is your tutorial. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...BEM&p=13120971
    You will find this AAR explains and shows so much.
    I tried to explain the game concepts that are special to RUS in Who put the stranded admiral in charge? - A Siberian White Short Campaign PBEM. If you want a general introduction into how AGEOD games work, I highlyrecommend Narwhal and loki100's "How to AAR":

    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...a-A-how-to-AAR
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...-for-beginners


    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert West View Post
    Thx.

    Though the game seems kinda expensive. Almost 30 euro. (for my budget anyway).
    The price was never lowered since RUS was released. A bit surprising.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stuyvesant View Post
    Herbert WestAll I can suggest is that you play another AGEOD game first (if you've been signed up for the Paradox newsletter sufficiently long, you might have code for a free Wars in America 2), or at least tinker with a few demos. The RUS demo doesn't give you a lot to go on (as far as I can tell, none of the tutorials/scenarios included touch on the longer-term issues of using decisions, or really recruiting troops and forming corps/armies), but it will definitely give you an idea of how the main component of the game (movement and battle) works. So I would say that if you like the vibe from the other games/demos, then you'll probably like the full game. Just be aware that there is a definite learning curve (but then again, you've played Paradox games before, so you're used to that ).
    I couldn't have said it any better. WIA is probably the most suitable beginners game where AGEOD is concerned. RUS on the other hand, is in my opinion the best game ever made for this engine (but it does have a steep learning curve for anyone who hasn't played AGEOD games before).

  6. #26


    By May 1921, the Red Army had significantly increased its forces, just as importantly it had been thoroughly reorganized. Its best commanders had been assigned to key sectors, its formations optimized*. It was time to take revenge for the humiliation Germany had inflicted upon Russia in January. Thus the Soviet declaration of war was delivered to the Kaiser on May 15th 1921.

    The Soviet strategy was of simplistic elegance: Well aware that the Red Army was still heavily outnumbered by Germany and its allies, it was decided to wage a defensive war. Soviet forces had used the months of peace to prepare elaborate trench systems in easily defensible positions. Hopefully, Germany and its allies would bleed themselves dry in futile attempts to break through. Once Germany's shallow manpower reserves were exhausted, Soviet Russia would strike back and carry the torch of world revolution all the way to Berlin and Vienna.



    Unfortunately, the most suitable defensive positions lay directly on the border. If these were to be lost, it would become very difficult to contain the German flood pourring through.
    In the North, Petrograd could be defended against the Finns along a very short frontline. Lake Lagoda secured this position against flanking attempts. Further south, Lake Peipus greatly shortened the frontline against the Baltic nations. Between Pskov and Polotsk, the terrain was difficult with thick woods, lakes and swamps greatly restricting mobility. For the moment the three Baltic nations and Finland remained on the sidelines of the Great Eastern European War but this would soon change ...
    The obvious corridor of attack was the Minsk area where stretches of open land allowed for a quick German breakthrough. Therefore this sector was given top priority: Tukhachevsky and Stalin were put in charge of 142.000 men to defend it at all costs.
    South of Minsk, the Prypiat Marshes stretched for several hundred miles. This huge march area was deemed impassable for strong forces and thus left undefended.
    The main worry for the Soviet leaders was the Ukraine. Its open countryside offered little natural defensive positions except for its rivers. Moreover, Russian forces had been forced to retreat beyond its borders by the ultimatum in January. With the railroads in German hands, it was feared that powerful enemy forces would push through the Ukraine and threaten Russia's heartland before the Red Army had time to react.

    Luckily Red partisans had thoroughly disrupted Poland's railway network, the Soviet Army would thus have a few weeks to secure defensive positions before German and Austrian reinforcements could bolster the weak Ukrainian Army. It was therefore decided to risk a limited offensive. The overall objective was to reach the Dniepr and form a defensive line on its eastern bank.



    While forces from Kursk and Rostov flooded into the Eastern Ukraine, Frunze was ordered to attack Kiev with his 56.000 men. This seemingly massive attack was nothing but a diversion. It was hoped that it would distract the Germans long enough to enable Soviet troops to secure the Dniepr Line before German forces could cross the river. If some damage could be inflicted upon the Ukrainian army, this would be an added bonus.



    On May 22th, Frunze's attack on the Ukrainian capital began. The Ukrainians chose to retreat rather than fight. Two Ukrainian cavalry regiments sacrificed themselves to provide cover for Skoropadsky's flight. A small Ukrainian garrision remained behind inside the city.



    The fighting in the sky was a lot more intense: Red fighter squadrons harrassed the small Ukrainian airforce mercilessly. On May 22nd, 23 Ukrainian airplanes went down; 5 days later another 9 planes were shot down. Kiev's sky now belonged to the Red Army. Total losses to the Red Airforce: 4 planes.



    Kiev's garrison proved much more resilient than expected though. By mid June, they were still holding out.** Frunze who had been much strengthened by reinforcements*** was ordered to undertake another assault.



    Despite being outnumbered by 10:1 the Ukrainians put up a brave fight. 7.500 of them died that day but they took more than 3.000 Reds with them. At the end of the day, only some river sailors and airforce ground personnel remained to defend the city.



    In the meantime, Samoylo had been dispatched to take Poltava. Again Ukrainian resistance proved to be stubborn. 4.500 Ukrainians were killed but even after this crushing defeat, a single Ukrainian regiment still held out. It took Samoylo until June 24th before he had cleared the city. The 2nd Battle of Poltava was a massacre rather than a battle. 1.700 Ukrainian casualties were recorded, whereas the Red Army didn't lose a single man. Nevertheless, the Ukrainians would be remembered as heros; it was their sacrifice that slowed down the Red Army for two crucial weeks.



    In July, German and Austrian reinforcements finally pourred into the Ukraine. Unexplicably, it had taken the Central Powers 2 months to get German troops onto the Ukranian battlefields but now they were arriving in stunning masses. Days earlier the Ukrainian countryside had been virtually undefended, but now a solid wall of German and Austrian armies stretched from the southern reaches of the Prypiat Marshes all the way to the shores of the Black Sea. Frunze and Samoylo were outnumbered by 3:1. It was estimated that Germany had approximately 350.000 men converging upon Kiev.
    Frunze didn't wait for the German juggernaut to crush him but rather retreated across the Dniepr hastily. His army escaped none too early. Only days after he had abandoned the siege of Kiev, Austria-Hungary's 2nd and 5th Armies entered the city. Even more threatening, German troops under von Beseler and Brecht threatened to outflank Frunze in the South while von Bojna's 1st Austrian Army did the same in the North. Frunze's entire front was now threatened with encirclement.



    Nevertheless, Frunze decided to hold his ground. If the vital Red Dniepr Redoubt was lost, the whole Dniepr Line would become obsolete before it had even been firmly established. To counteract the threat of an encirclement Ordzhonikidze was dispatched to Konotop.****

    In August, the German-Austrian offensive started in earnest. Von Bojna advanced into Frunze's back cutting him off from Konotop. In the meantime, Brecht occupied the railway leading eastward while more German and Austrian troops streamed across the Dniepr. Frunze was now completely isolated.

    However Frunze had little time to worry about his flanks and rear since he was fully occupied fighting off enemies attacking his front. On August 1st, von Beseler's and Frunze's forces clashed. Unfortunately, for the Germans the Austrians didn't send reinforcements in time. The Germans were thus left alone facing 125.000 Red soldiers under Frunze's able command. But even outnumbered 4:1 the Germans were a dangerous foe. Von Beseler's 2nd Army consisted of some of the best troops the Kaiserreich had to offer: its core was formed by 21 tank regiments supported by motorized infantry and artillery as well as 18 cavalry regiments. In command were two of Germany's most promising generals: Erwin Rommel and Heinz Guderian.



    But the German's mobility proved to be of little use in a frontal assault on the Russian trenches. Heavily outgunned, German casualties were horrendous before the men got even close to the Red trenches. Almost half of von Beseler's tank were lost in the firestorm the Red artillery unleashed. When the survivors reached enemy trenches, they were already too battered to achieve a breakthrough. The battle turned into a horrific defeat: Rommel's and Guderian's divisions were almost entirely wiped out. Von Sieger's Reservekorps fared little better. Total German casualties in this futile attack amounted to 25.000 men as opposed to 3.800 men the Red Army had lost. Due to the lack of Austrian support the Germans had experienced a costly fiasco.*****



    When Austrian reinforcements under von Pflanzer-Baltin finally arrived a day later, von Beseler had already retreated back across the Dniepr. Now it was the Austrians who had to face a superior Red force on their own. 122.000 Red soldier waited in their trenches for 87.000 Austrian and Hungarian troops to attack. Again Russian artillery decided the battle. The Austrian infantry was badly mauled and never reached the Russian trenches. Instead of pushing his men further, von Pflanzer-Baltin abandonned the attack. But by this time, he had already lost 37.000 men. Two of his corps, the 9th and the 10th, had been entirely annihilated. In contrast, the Russians had lost no more than 8.900 soldiers.

    Inspite of these victories the Russian situation was dire on a strategic level. The Germans had won the race to the Dniepr and crossed it in force. Even more importantly, Frunze was now entirely surrounded by enemy forces. Both railway lines to the Red hinterland were cut-off. Moreover, even after the loss of more than 60.000 men within two days, the Central Powers still heavily outnumbered Frunze's army. Soon he would have no choice but to throw his men against German trenches in order to break out. It seemed certain that the Central Powers would get their revenge ...


    ------------------------------------------------------------
    * One can improve combat performance greatly if attention is paid to details. Most division had been assigned either a tank or an armoured car detachment, some cheka units (for morale and discipline) and if possible some tachankas (heavy machine guns mounted on chariots which provide an initiative bonus).
    ** Highlandcharge had split it into four seperate stacks. While none of them was big enough to offer any meaningful resistance, this made sure that it would take me several assaults to take the city. I should have ordered an all-out assault this would have taken care of the problem in a single turn. But I didn't want to risk getting caught by German reinforcements in this highly aggressive posture.
    *** He now had 117.000 men.
    **** Ordzhonikidze's force had yet to be assembled. I had dispatched two corps (technically just divisions but in this scenario the naming convention is different) from stacks further east and ordered them to rendezvous with Ordzhonikidze and some freshly recruited units at Konotop. In their ununified state these units were not ready to engage the Germans which is why they were ordered to Konotop and not the region to its south which would have prevented Bojna from cutting Frunze of the next turn. The plan was to dislodge the Austrians with a counter-attack as soon as possible.
    ***** This was a miscalculation on Highlandcharge's part. The battle lasted only one round. Reinforcements from another region hardly ever participate in a battle during round 1. It usually takes them until round 2 or 3 to engage. In this case Red artillery (which outnumbered the Germans 7:1) dealt so much damage during the first round that the battle was over before the Austrians could arrive.

  7. #27
    Wow! Impressive victories. Do you have any idea about German replacements? Can they replace those losses in any way?

  8. #28
    First Lieutenant Fadi_Efendi's Avatar
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    Did the Austrians march to their senseless deaths under the sound of guns? Or was the plan to attack you with combined forces?

  9. #29
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    it says everything about the massiveness of this scenario that 56,000 men are described as a mere diversion.

    Well done Frunze, that was an impressive set of victories (& the impact of Soviet artillery in ensuring it), the only fear is he's going to enact Kirponos' disaster 20 years too early if he holds on and his flanks are turned

  10. #30
    What are Frunze's stats up to now after that slaughter?

  11. #31
    Blood to the blood god! Skulls for the skull throne!

    Now THAT is a massacre. 56 000 men is peanuts, oh dear gracious god! I put forth a motion to rename Lenin to Khorne. And may God Emperor of Germany's hordes' blood paint the borders of Fortress Russia bright red. Kudos for the victories and don't let Frunze get encircled.

  12. #32
    Great AAR O.A Mexican. How are the casualty rates in this scenario? In Rop it is better where battles are less bloody. I'm also looking to play this scenario again.
    Cheers.

  13. #33
    Field Marshal Stuyvesant's Avatar
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    Bloody losses for the Germans - but given their massive armies, they're not likely to slow down anytime soon. That's troubling... If they can continue to push your armies away (either by battle or to avoid entrapment), they might advance too far into Russia for your defensive plan to stand a chance, even with the known lack of future reinforcements for the Germans.

    Speaking of reinforcements: are the Austro-Hungarians similarly hampered by low reinforcement numbers, or are theirs handled separately?
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  14. #34
    New update tomorrow - it's time to take a look further north.


    Quote Originally Posted by Searry View Post
    Wow! Impressive victories. Do you have any idea about German replacements? Can they replace those losses in any way?
    Not if they keep losing units at this rate: Germany's conscript income is ~100 per turn which they can supplement with partial (400 conscripts every 6 months) and general mobilization (500 conscripts).


    Quote Originally Posted by Fadi_Efendi View Post
    Did the Austrians march to their senseless deaths under the sound of guns? Or was the plan to attack you with combined forces?
    As far as I can tell, the Austrian attack was planned and not a march to the sound of guns. Hard to be sure, though.


    Quote Originally Posted by loki100 View Post
    the only fear is he's going to enact Kirponos' disaster 20 years too early if he holds on and his flanks are turned
    Frunze was indeed left in a hairy situation with his supply lines cut off and superior enemy forces surrounding him. You will see soon whether I managed to get him out or if Frunze's victories were the beginning of his doom.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Cleburne View Post
    What are Frunze's stats up to now after that slaughter?
    5-6-6 (he has 6 experience stars by now).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurfürst View Post
    Blood to the blood god! Skulls for the skull throne!

    Now THAT is a massacre. 56 000 men is peanuts, oh dear gracious god! I put forth a motion to rename Lenin to Khorne. And may God Emperor of Germany's hordes' blood paint the borders of Fortress Russia bright red. Kudos for the victories and don't let Frunze get encircled.
    Unfortunately at this point Frunze was already surrounded.

    This scenario piles up casualties that make WW I look like a tea party. It is possible to lose several tens of thousand men in a single day. I played another Drang Campaign PBEM with the Reds almost simultaniously to this one. Casualty rates were even worse. When we ended the match in early 1922. German casualties had risen to over a million men (the Soviets had lost half that number). The horrible thing is that it took only 15 turns of war (7 months) to pile up these casualties.


    Quote Originally Posted by baris30 View Post
    Great AAR O.A Mexican. How are the casualty rates in this scenario? In Rop it is better where battles are less bloody. I'm also looking to play this scenario again.
    Cheers.
    Nice to hear from you Baris.
    Casualty rates tend to be higher than in other RUS scenarios. The main reason is that entrenchment levels go up to level 6 instead of just 4. Still it isn't that much worse than in RoP, I have seen my fair share of complete annihilations there as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stuyvesant View Post
    Bloody losses for the Germans - but given their massive armies, they're not likely to slow down anytime soon. That's troubling... If they can continue to push your armies away (either by battle or to avoid entrapment), they might advance too far into Russia for your defensive plan to stand a chance, even with the known lack of future reinforcements for the Germans.

    Speaking of reinforcements: are the Austro-Hungarians similarly hampered by low reinforcement numbers, or are theirs handled separately?
    My fear as well. If I lose my first line of defense, the next one will be in open territory where less natural obstacles reduce front length and my forces become more vulnerable to flanking attempts.

    All of Germany's allies share its conscript pool. They are handled as one unity. The only limitation is that generals can only have units of their own nationality within their divisions.

  15. #35



    When they declared war, the Red leadership was convinced that the first major German offensive would take place in the Minsk sector. Not only was Minsk the first stop on the most direct route towards Moscow, it was also placed in a strategic bottleneck between Lithuania - still at peace with Soviet Russia* - and the almost impassable Prypiat Marshes.
    The Red Army had planned to defend this sector along two defensive lines. The primary line would run through Baranavichy, a town on the Polish-Belorussian border. This line was extremely short, thus allowing for a high troop concentration but the open territory offered little natural protection. Should this line fall, the Russian armies would fall back behind River Neman to a secondary line. While double the length, it offered the advantage of difficult terrain which would limit the number of units that could attack.



    Stalin and Tukhachevsky had set a trap for the Germans: they had kept their forces back at Minsk rather than occupy positions directly on the German border. The two defensive lines were held by nothing but a few Red Guards, ordered to dig huge trench networks. As soon as war was declared, Soviet forces were loaded on trains and rushed towards the border. The idea was that the German generals would be tricked into attacking apparently weak positions only to find them strongly reinforced.
    Helas, the Germans were too smart to fall for such an obvious trap.** Instead they continued to amass an impressive number of troops facing the border town of Baranavichy. By July 15th 1921, 105.000 Soviet soldiers under Stalin's personal command were manning an elaborate network of trenches. The opposing German forces were estimated to outnumber them 2:1. This had Stalin so alarmed that he requested reinforcements.
    Thus Tukhachevsky railed the last reserves (held back at Minsk for fear that Lithuania would join the war and threaten Minsk from the West) towards the front: 2 corps under Matsiletsky (43.000 men) were to reinforce Stalin's army while 20.000 men under Tukhachevsky's personal command occupied the secondary defensive line.



    The reinforcements arrived none too early. On 19th July, German forces started a massive offensive. 221.000 soldiers were deployed by the German High Command.*** They now faced 150.000 Russians which were extremely well entrenched and supported by a huge amount of artillery.**** Stalin had 1098 cannons as opposed to 387 on the German side.***** As soon as the German infantry left their trenches, they were ripped apart by Soviet artillery. During the first phase of the battle, three German corps were all but annihilated: von Schoch's XVII. Armeekorps, von Kathen's XX. Armeekorps and von Plskow's I. Armeekorps.



    Still von Württemberg, the commanding German Feldmarschall, kept throwing new units into the battle. Only after three more corps (von Werder's I. Landwehrkorps, Kühne's II. Bayerische Armeekorps and von Eberhardt's VI. Armeekorps) had been horribly mauled, did the German prince abandon the offensive.



    Baranavichy now lay in the middle of a crater landscape. Thousands of dead bodies covered the gruesome scenery. Within a single day, 75.000 German soldiers had fallen. 20.000 Soviets shared their fate. Appalled by the slaughter, von Württemberg was heared to reminisce about the civilized ways of the Great War.******



    Stalin on the other hand became an instant hero in Soviet Russia.******* He had won himself military laurels that could be used to overshadow Trotzky's successful leadership in the civil war. The Battle of Baranavichy was later said to have made Stalin's succession upon Lenin's death inevitable. More immediately, it put an end to Germany's attempts to break through in the Minsk sector.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Note on chapter title: Storm of Steel (in German: "In Stahlgewittern"; but in my humble opinion "In Tempests of Steel" is a better translation even if it loses the alliteration) is the title of Ernst Jünger's memoirs about his experience as an officer in WWI. It has often been critized for glorifying war. Nor does it help that his works were soon held in high esteem by prominent National-Socialists many of whom's views Jünger shared. But even if one abhors his politics, his literary talent is hard to deny.
    * And thus locked for movement.
    ** I had to try but knew that chances of success were low. Highlandcharge is a cautious opponent and far too skilled to fall for the obvious.
    *** In the last chapter, Highlandcharge tried quite successfully to outflank me. Here that wasn't possible, thus he resorted to brute force. A classic WW I tactic. Throw enough men into the battle and breakthrough will be achieved ... or not.
    **** These were the crucial factors: level 6 entrenchment protected the Russian units from harm while the Soviet artillery advantage made long range combat devastatingly costly for the Germans.
    ***** Highlandcharge's big mistake in this game was not to build artillery like a maniac during the months of peace. While Germany starts with a huge superiority in armed forces, it is relatively weak on artillery. This can be easily rectified if the Soviet player chooses to delay war. Germany's income in money and war supplies is almost limitless (especially if the German players runs some requisitions). The conscript shortage limits his capability to build infantry, but artillery requires only 1 conscript per element. It is possible to build more than 20 elements of artillery/armoured trains per turn and still put out two or three new infantry divisions as well. The Soviets can't keep up with this rate since their money and war supply income is rather limited, thus Germany is bound to catch up and even overtake Russia's artillery production.
    ****** I was profoundly shocked when I saw this battle result. I couldn't help but feel like a mass murderer. It seemed fitting that Stalin was in command of this butchery.
    ******* Stalin's stats went from 3-1-2 to 3-3-4.

  16. #36
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    bloody hell ... in every sense of the word. That makes the muppets in charge of the British army on the Somme seem considerate in comparison.

    This scenario really is on a different scale. Going back to your earlier comments, I've seen bloody battles in RoP with losses up around 50.000+ and in playing around with the Civil War scenarios in RUS but this is just on a quite unique level. Wonder if you got a late war in PoN if something similar would result?

  17. #37
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    That is bloodshed beyond compare... Almost 100,000 people killed in combat and in a single day... That is just horrific.

    But as far as the game goes, an excellent defensive victory for you. I also see that you didn't lose any elements, so theoretically you could completely rebuild your force, if you were given enough time.

    And such crippling losses (without any attendant territorial gain) must really hurt the German war effort. In terms of conscripts, how many turns' worth of manpower did the Germans leave on the field of battle?
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  18. #38
    ROP is excellent currently. No more repeated battles, and casualty rates are much much better, there is even less corps commitment chance than it was before and game is in very good shape. I wish all of it to RUS game to benefit from ROP game. But it is commonly the bloodiest region in the Drang scenario indeed with huge clash and casualties.

  19. #39
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    Oh my god.... How long do battles last in-game because I have a book on Soviet Red-Army Casualties from the Civil War (terrible records though) all the way to Afghanistan. I honestly think that last battle was one of the bloodiest in Soviet history. Also was having Stalin commander intentional or an accidental quirk? I think you mentioned or someone else mentioned in a RUS AAR he was one of the Red's better generals? His stats though seem pretty lackluster even after the post battle boost or are Russian generals just that inept?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackTheRipper21 View Post
    ... Also was having Stalin commander intentional or an accidental quirk? I think you mentioned or someone else mentioned in a RUS AAR he was one of the Red's better generals? His stats though seem pretty lackluster even after the post battle boost or are Russian generals just that inept?
    Bornego can answer this better (with more insight) than me, but yes, Stalin is out of the better Red generals. Generally speaking they are somewhat lacking in quality (but they can make up for it with quantity and the Cheka - well, at least in the regular Civil War scenarios).
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