Yeah it doesn't seem like implementing it would be a big deal. The only real question is who's eligible to be an elector and who's eligible to be elected. Maybe the top 20-30 bishops (approximate size for the time period), where "top" is done first by rank (so a bishop-prince would outrank a bishop) then, by reign length (seniority), then by Learning stat.
Who's eligible to be elected Pope is actually a much trickier issue. Layman could be elected pope (and at least one was, to my knowledge, John XIX) and would just be ordained before taking office as Pope. So it's actually kind of arguable that the "cardinals" should be able to elect any Catholic man as Pope... but I think for purposes of the game it'd be fine if they just elected one amongst themselves.
I was a little disappointed when I played as the Count of Orvieto and found that there was little I could do to influence the papal elections, as I was actually wanting to basically re-enact the Rule of the Harlots (Pornocracy) mentioned earlier. But I can see why they didn't focus on it on the core game.
However, being able to get people in your family uplifted to positions in the clergy very much fits into the dynastic aspect of the game, in my opinion, even if it's not core. It was common for second or third sons to be encouraged to take up such a career in order to protect the inheritance and gain alliances with the Church. It is not essential to gameplay, for certain, but it would enhance it as an add-on.
As far as modding it in (as opposed to waiting for a DLC), the matter of a titular duchy is a bit antsy because you cannot have two lieges and that means Cardinals would be sworn to the Church, which would result in the Papacy (or Ecumenical Patriarchy) scooping up Prince-Bishoprics across the map. This is more a question for the modding forum, but I wonder if an event can be triggered for all Cardinals for the election.
In the idea of simplicity, we have a decision for the Pope to name a Bishop or other ecclesiastical character (the game files have a "priest" modifier so that helps it along) as a Cardinal. Making this trigger for the AI may be a bit tricky, but it would increase relations between the two and give a prestige/piety bonus to the Cardinal. A decision like asking for a papal indulgence can be added for a ruler to nominate their court chaplain as a Cardinal (increasing relations between ruler/pope or decreasing them if the request is denied, probably requiring an amount of gold and piety as well), and one can add an ambition for priestly characters to become a Cardinal (with an associated event tree where they request the Pope to give them the cardinalate.)
Then, whenever a pope dies, there's a series of events wherein three candidates are chosen from the pool of cardinals: the one with the highest piety, the one with the highest prestige, and the one with the highest gold. Each of the options gives a bonus to the related trait (the voting cardinal thus gains piety, prestige, or gold from his choice), and represents the different reasons the College would support one of the candidates. The votes are counted and in theory the pope chosen from the one with the most support.
I don't even know if it's possible for a leader to be chosen via event like this, or if an event can be coded to "count" votes, but on paper it sounds simple. The key is to keep it simple in the basic setup, stuff like interregnum might overcomplicate it (as I don't think a leaderless state is quite possible with the game as-is).
About the Prince-Bihopriocs issue, It's probably possible to have the freshly elected pope giving up his previous titles and causing a normal bishopric succession for those holdings.
That would be ideal, if only to avoid little Papacies appearing all over the map.
I think we should have a set number of cardinals (appointed by the Pope based on his relations with those holding bishoprics and their lieges, and the canidates piety). Once the Pope dies, the cardinals elect a new Pope based on their relationships with the possible canidates and the canidates piety (among other cardinals and maybe some of the top bishops). Possible you could get events of canidates asking that you support their bid for Pope with a monetary contribution (which would give a permanent relations boost) or a cardinal who is your liege asks for your advice on who to support depending on how much he likes you or his traits. Any holdings vacated by the newly elected Pope stay within their realm and are inherited as if the previous holder died. I would be very happy with that and it would provide more opportunity to have dynamic relations with the Pope.
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Election in church, christian one, has been more about politics than anything else.
Virtue ever only a un-draw factor, especialy if you consider the actual line of popes Are a line of usurpers since Avignon popes.
The anti Avigon pope wasn t even elected he was put on power by peasant revolts who wanted an italian pope, and they put the most popular one on it.
But a college of cardinal were election is based on a serie of factors would be awesone.
Could be something like:
Becoming a cardinal, must be bishop:
Average of Knowledge and Diplomacy
Average of personal prestige and Piety
Sum of 0.1 to each dinasty prestige point +1 point for evey virtue trait, and -1 to every sin trait + .1 to every gold donated to church by dinasty
Same rules can be applied to pope alection among cardinal or a mix
Apart from list of existing bishops that the game would have to compile i don t think this would be too hard to implement, or would it ? No idea.
The Lord is as a man of war, Almighty is his name.
The rest is marketing.
I really do agree with this idea, i would love to have my son as pope
"Luzos às armas, pela Fé, pelo Rey, pela Pátria."
*Lusitans to arms, for the faith, for the King, for the Homeland.
But, maybe I can't forget that the Pope who calls for Crusade...
The last game I made, popes were often ridiculous teenagers: these "elections" seem to forget the Gregorian Reform period.
Please, note I didn't say that I think the election mechanism need to be "historical", but only "logical".
It's not the case at this time.
And you are right...
But with the previous version of the game, I have often tried to put a character from my dynasty on the Holy See.
So, it isn't clearly off topic.
(More than knowing, as we read regularly, if you can play with a pagan or republican family).
I'm not asking for substantial changes, but at least the return of a more logical system, as we could found in the first version of the game.
I can understand that this issue doesn't concern your opinion about this (moreover, always interesting) game, but I don't see how you can think that it's almost irrelevant...
Of course, that doesn't make me stop playing the game, but this issue seems more important to me that other minor problems, because it's hard coded and can not be resolved by any mod (as I know).
While I am all for a College of Cardinal system for the election of the Pope, the problem here is that In Nomini Domine limited the actual voting electors to the 7 Suburbican Sees of Rome. Voting by the whole College (Cardinal-Bishops, Cardinal-Priests & Cardinal-Deacons) didn't occur until the late 1100s. Unfortunately, the Cardinal System we think is Medieval is actually more Renaissance. Even in this period it was rare to find a Pope that was from outside of the Roman Province let alone outside of Italy. These Cardinals were actual Bishops, Priests or Deacons of their churches/dioceses in Rome, not just titular holders like they are now.
"David received the kingdom of Saul his persecutor; and Jesus received the kingdom of Israel His persecutor...David handed over the kingdom to Solomon, and was gathered to his people; and Jesus handed over the keys to Simon, and ascended and returned to Him who sent Him."
~ Aphraates the Persian ~
Unless otherwise specified, everything is my opinion and should not be construed as fact.
The same goes for the Ecumenical Partiarch and any other head of religion you might want to add- I've added Catholicos-Patriarch of the Church of the East (nestorians) and Pope of Alexandria (monophysites) and they all elect various morons.
Elder Kings: An Elder Scrolls Modification for Crusader Kings 2
Well the Dark ages to early middle ages saw people put into the Papacy including Silvestre II right before game start so as long as it doesn't interfere with the anti-pope mechanic I am all for some sort of system where you dont get a syphilitic inbred freak with learning of 2 as the Pope.
If they implement Cathedrals as an upgrade church holding for capitals, which I hope they do at some point then they could chose the best candidate from them automatically with the highest learning and piety. Dropping that title and assuming the Papacy. Could do it now with the highest learning/piety Bishop who loses land but I would rather see Cathedrals.
It would be a great thing to add. Fully support the college of cardinal
this is an area of crusader kings 2 that has dissapointed me, i.e. the total exclusion of any religious mechanics! its madness! lol....... there should deffinately be an inclusion of the college of cardinals, i doubt it would be that hard for the devs to create considering the already indepth dynasty system they have made. Or even if they made a comprehensive religious dlc, i would buy it (only if it was indepth though, nothing hollow).
so yes +1