It is very impressive how you managed to stay this aggressive for the entirety of the game. Hat's off!
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I think you should annex the holy war targets in europe, Although they will be harder to defend, they cover more area for boundary disputes, and so you get more cores and gain less infamy that way. I also support going into japan, so many provinces that will be hard to do later on.
Brunei, Japan, and Manchu would be my picks but for sure getting onto both islands (ok island chains in the Japanese case) to maximize the chance of boundary disputes occurring after 1650. But you have to be able to get to the islands and it will pin down garrison troops. Cleaning up India (Hindustan, Punjab, Delhi) would be good but then again, you'll have to keep a field force in the area for rebel control anyways so wait for popping a Boundary Dispute would be my choice. Same as the European OPM's.
Go with the provinces with land connections. I mean you are used to rebels, but still they would be easier to cope with.
Why would he go for provinces with land connections? He could eventually get cores there and receive them for 0 infamy.
Keep in mind that Prawnstar has a very high skill level. Being smart infamy-wise is way more important than making things a little easier.
Its almost unfair watching you destroy Trollhemia like that, what are we going to do for a big final baddie? Completely unacceptable work. 
Also now prepare for another Dauth brand maths spam (lets hope I don't screw this up, I've been writing and rewriting this post to make sense for about 45 mins now). Warning maths may contain *SPOILERS*!
Onto the BB issue you say 60 bb before 1650 (others reckon 65) and 94 to collect. This leaves 34 provinces at IMP or REV (see below for definitions). These provinces are more effeciently taken during REV era (half cost relative to IMP).
There are 56 povinces owned by natives in new world, at 0.8 bb each which gives 43.2 bb (call it 45 for ease) overall.
Your average bb burn rate appears to be 2bb/year meaning you have ~340 bb to burn. When we add Cabinet at about 1655 this number is closer to 500 bb.
Can you take the rest of Europe (and any colonies they spawn) while not spending more than 500 bb? There is some wiggle room here as you don't have to end on 0 bb.
Imperialism CB (Now called IMP) will be used until Revolution / Counter Revolution (Now called REV).
REV due at 1760 (assuming you give priority to Gov 53 which I'm postulating is likely).
IMP between 1650 and 1760.
BB burn in REV era: 60 years at 3 bb/year = 180 BB. 180 BB from REV = 180 provinces (34 of which must be from the former Holy War targets which leaves 146 European provinces)
We still need to deal with the BB from Pagans, this is best burned before REV arrives so 45 bb at 3 bb/year is 15 years of IMP lost to burning BB from the pagans.
BB burn in IMP era: 110 years (5 at 2bb/year, (105 - 15(Pagan BB) ) at 3bb/year) = 10+270= 280 BB from IMP = 140 European provinces
Total European provinces worth of BB burnable is 286
So assuming this is all correct (unlikely given that its taken me three quarters of an hour to write, and I've already fouled up basic maths in this thread once)
The million ducat question is. Are there more or less than 286 European provinces. I think that its close but doable and this doesn't take into account the 6 bb bonus from High score diplomats. The total number of European provinces that can be taken can be increased by going over 3 bb/year burn rate or by bringing REV foreward.
Also now prepare for another Dauth brand maths spam (lets hope I don't screw this up, I've been writing and rewriting this post to make sense for about 45 mins now). Warning maths may contain *SPOILERS*!
Onto the BB issue you say 60 bb before 1650 (others reckon 65) and 94 to collect. This leaves 34 provinces at IMP or REV (see below for definitions). These provinces are more effeciently taken during REV era (half cost relative to IMP).
There are 56 povinces owned by natives in new world, at 0.8 bb each which gives 43.2 bb (call it 45 for ease) overall.
Your average bb burn rate appears to be 2bb/year meaning you have ~340 bb to burn. When we add Cabinet at about 1655 this number is closer to 500 bb.
Can you take the rest of Europe (and any colonies they spawn) while not spending more than 500 bb? There is some wiggle room here as you don't have to end on 0 bb.
Imperialism CB (Now called IMP) will be used until Revolution / Counter Revolution (Now called REV).
REV due at 1760 (assuming you give priority to Gov 53 which I'm postulating is likely).
IMP between 1650 and 1760.
BB burn in REV era: 60 years at 3 bb/year = 180 BB. 180 BB from REV = 180 provinces (34 of which must be from the former Holy War targets which leaves 146 European provinces)
We still need to deal with the BB from Pagans, this is best burned before REV arrives so 45 bb at 3 bb/year is 15 years of IMP lost to burning BB from the pagans.
BB burn in IMP era: 110 years (5 at 2bb/year, (105 - 15(Pagan BB) ) at 3bb/year) = 10+270= 280 BB from IMP = 140 European provinces
Total European provinces worth of BB burnable is 286
So assuming this is all correct (unlikely given that its taken me three quarters of an hour to write, and I've already fouled up basic maths in this thread once)
The million ducat question is. Are there more or less than 286 European provinces. I think that its close but doable and this doesn't take into account the 6 bb bonus from High score diplomats. The total number of European provinces that can be taken can be increased by going over 3 bb/year burn rate or by bringing REV foreward.
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Dauth, you should really tag your post: *SPOILERS*
I believe the main factor you missed, is the freebies from border disputes. Hard to predict exactly but clearly significant. The number will go down significantly not only because wonder boy Richard Ansom will die someday but also because the Imperialism CB requires a form of government without elections, so PrawnStar will be stuck with whatever diplomacy value he gets (except of course for sending bad leaders to the frontlines and keeping the good ones safely at home). He could postpone switching governments a little, while he finishes up the Holy Wars started before 1650 and, more importantly, while he pursues Colonial Wars. After that, it's mostly luck. Other than that, I think the BB burn has generally been a little above 2bb/year, more like 2.2bb/year.
I believe the main factor you missed, is the freebies from border disputes. Hard to predict exactly but clearly significant. The number will go down significantly not only because wonder boy Richard Ansom will die someday but also because the Imperialism CB requires a form of government without elections, so PrawnStar will be stuck with whatever diplomacy value he gets (except of course for sending bad leaders to the frontlines and keeping the good ones safely at home). He could postpone switching governments a little, while he finishes up the Holy Wars started before 1650 and, more importantly, while he pursues Colonial Wars. After that, it's mostly luck. Other than that, I think the BB burn has generally been a little above 2bb/year, more like 2.2bb/year.
He's going to eventually control the entire curia which gives about 1.5 burn a year. He has 3/15 cardinals right now for 0.3 burn. SO he should have more than 500 burned.
Now that Trade 27 and level 6 buildings are possible, I imagine Prawnstar will target Govt 30 for Cabinet and -1 infamy per year. I expect him to have that sometime between 1635 and 1640.He doesn't have to change govt types in 1650 as soon as Hholy War stops. He can use the oolonial CB to MOP up Mutapa, Kongo (1 provincealready taken), Huron/Iroquios, Creek/Cherokee/Shawnee, Aztec/Maya/Zapotec and Inca. if there's another DIP 9 administrator, Prawnstar may keep the adm rep for more than a decade for the boundary disputes to pop up. Lower DIP rulers get a lot of border friction. Poor dip dictators leaders will not, I am sure be goingto the frontlines. It's far too gamey and cheesy for my taste.
FEEDBACK
PdoxNewbie - No, it'll be Republican Dictatorship which also gets Imperialism CB so I can stay in the Republican track. I think that in the end game a Republic using Revolution/Counter Revolution CB wil have more targets than a Monarchy using that CB.
Northcutt - No idea but I have absolutely no intention of taking on the entire world at once this side of 1810.
Barsoom - It's looking likely there won't enough Holy War targets left by 1649 to make cheese a problem.
Selenimar - Nice.
Aminti - Exactly, Pagans will be targetted straight after the Holy War CB runs out. I haven't even discovered any of the new world pagans yet.
no7892142 - Ming has a COT in the capital, I doubt they'll build another before I make it irrelevant!
Gibskov - I'm struggling with monopolies simply because there are still a lot of good trade European countries left. They keep placing merchants even if they don't ften boot my merchjants out. The situation will get easier as my trade efficiency starts to rocket.
Nidoa - Thanks and it's not easy - quite often I'm doing stuff that doesn't feel sensible but is needed to keep the BB flowing.
sprites, Dragonmansd, Ricardo Rolo, Aminti, Barsoom, mottwww, homy_dog34, Franconian, Tallfellow, The Arch Mede, Chief Ragusa, Poulern, blsteen, il_loco, Dauth, Kingepyon: Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and feedback on how to use the last period of Holy Warring - lots of interesting points and good if conflicting advice. We'll just have to wait and see how it all pans out
My thoughts on how to use the Holy War CB.
Annexations are cheap - it makes sense to kill a two province minor for 2BB now rather than 4BB later.
This is a very cheap way of annexing an OPM if consolidation doesn't look likely.
Mainland borders allow for Boundary disputes.
The European OPMs are part of the Empire where internal warring has been refoprmed away and theocratic so they're not likely to be annexed or absorbed diplomatically.
Japan needs to be handled carefully to make sure they are war leader so I can use the Holy War CB on the daimyos.
The western Ming provinces should be left to the nomads.
sprites - Agreed the Trade buildings are very powerful if you build enough - and I plan to. I think I'll go after the OPMs.
Dragonmansd - Boundary disputes won't help in Japan since I can't DOW the daimyos directly.
Ricardo Rolo - I definitely agree with Japan and I know I'll take land from Brunei and Manchu but they're also my best option for Boundary Disputes. I'm gpoingto for my cores in Europe, hopefully I'll only need a low war score for a single province.
Aminti - Agree 60BB is reasonably conservative but I'd rather be cautious in my assumptions. Your assessment of Japan is good but the war score problem is even worse than that - as far as I can tell each province is costed by daimyo rather than as part of Japan as a whole. I'm going to try and clean up the minors while annexations are cheap.
Barsoom - You've hit what I see as a very important point, if I don't take these provinces with Holy War how much will I have to pay for them later? Holy War is a very cheap way to annex and I intend to go with that.
mottwww - I think I need to be a little bit more cunning than that
homy_dog34 & Franconian - Focus on Japan is good, my reasoning on OPMs is different as I've explained earlier.
Tallfellow - Japan definitely but Brunei has several boundaries with the possibiilty of disputes...
The Arch Mede - Yes, there's no need for anything very clever here. Hit them hard and often.
Chief Ragusa - Good points and I'm trying that on the two Hindu OPMs! Manchu have already annexed Korea.The various Japanese fleets aren't as scary as Brunei's and they don't have that uber Admiral.
Poulern - Pretty much agree with that.
blsteen - Brunei, Japan and Manchu all need to go dopwn but I want the minors as well. Brunei and Manchu are my realistic candidates for Boundary Disputes - not sure they'll be useful in Japan.
il_loco - The islands all have to fall at some point though...
Dauth - Very interesting numberrs although I think it's a bit early to try that sort of calculation - I don't normally bother until after 1750. The things that I see as throwing the numbers out is how many OPMs will I have to annex and how many countries will I not get a good CB on? I'm certainly hoping for more than 3BB a year burn rate though.
Barsoom - Yes Boundary Disputes need to be factored in but I tend not to worry too much about that as it's not really under my control. I will be keeping eleted leaders for as long as I can so the colonial wars wil start straight after the Holy Wars finish - not likely to be an exact science but it'll be good to get what I can.
Kingepyon - I 've never been able to get all of the curia but yes as the game goes on my numbers should be high so fingers crossed better than 3BB a year burn rate.
Chief Ragusa - Absolutely right Gov't 30 is the next big target for Cabinet - not sure when I'll get it but definitely before 1650! If I don't need the Imperialism CB I will keep a high diplo ruler as long as I can.
CHAPTER THIRTY EIGHT
It stays quiet until January 1626 when I get another Boundary Dispute, this one on Manchu’s Gangwon province in Korea.
A little later I get another boundary dispute, this time on Timurid Balkh.
By June 1626 BB is 7.00 / 24.00 falling at 1.90. It’s time to go to war.
The eventual target is Japan but before then I need to make sure their guarantor Manchu won’t be involved in that war - potentially taking the war leadership. So a DOW on Manchu to grab that new core solves that problem. That starts wars with Hindustan and Ming so a couple more wars there (Holy War and Reconquest) make sense as well…
The DOWs go in as planned, OPM Punjab joins Hindustan so I’ll try knocking them out and breaking all their ties with OPM Delhi while I’m busy…
Even as I’m fighting Ming I manage another Boundary dispute on Hefei!
The wars are completely without interest, enemy armies too primitive to survive more than a couple of battles although assaults don’t always work first time.
Peace in India - December 1626
I’m hoping Delhi will take out Punjab but if I need to annex them as OPMs probably best done using the Holy War CB. BB is 9.05 / 24.00 falling at 1.90 a year.
Peace with Ming - December 1626
Ming is down to two provinces in the East while nomad forces are spreading across the western provinces - let’s hope they succeed.
War with Japan - January 1627
I’m not expecting too much here - the Japanese are generally around Land 11 - 14 & Naval 10.
Peace with Manchu - January 1627
Early Battles
The various Japanese armies are all chewed up by the end of summer and I’m simply killing new units as they build while storming a province every month or so.
Peace with Japan - February 1628
Storming Japan’s one province gives 100 point war score which I can use with the Holy War CB to take provinces from any of the daimyos. That’s 100 points of provinces, just six, disappointing and it means Japan will not fall to Holy Warring alone.
BB is 12.80 / 24.00 falling at 2.10
The low amount of BB available from a successful war with Japan is a problem, I need to pick up BB elsewhere so a new plan is needed. Attacking Bohemia for my core would open the possibility of easy wars against Sunni HRE OPMs Riga and the Livonian Order. Riga is allied to Mali who’s allied to Sunni DotF Brunei.
- DOW Bohemia on a Reconquest CB for Polesia - 0BB
- DOW Riga with Holy War to annex the province of Livland - 2BB
- DOW Livonian Order with Holy War to annex the province of Riga - 2BB
- DOW Mali with Reconquest for the province of Kanem - 0BB
- DOW Brunei with Holy War to see what’s available…
The DOWs go in at the start of March 1629
Mali is peaced out at the start of May.
They are now a two province minor so I’ll Holy War to annex - there’s no cheaper solution.
A Burgundian lead coalition is also now at war with Bohemia but I’ve got the entire 200,000 soldiers of Bohemia’s alliance pouring over my Russian frontier. Time to retreat and let attrition do some work.
Peace with Brunei
This war at least was straightforward just adding 60 war score of provinces. The Chinese picture has changed again with Brunei forcing Ming to release OPM Qin. Ming has also fought the nomads to a stop for now but the capital, the single province on the coast, looks vulnerable…
Days later Peace with Bohemia
Despite the eastern front turning into a reasonably fluid march to the guns affair fought on my territory I was just holding on - so a strike column made an end run for Prague from the Rhine.
Riga and the Livonians annexed in September 1630
Richard Anson passes away on the 18th September 1630. Replacement stats more than acceptable.
End of an era.
Very good progress against China. It's also good that you've starten working on the daymios and Japan. But isn't it impossible to annex the whole Japan because it's not possible to disband the shogunate?
Good progress so far. Shame about Japan, though.
Hopefully 20 years i enough time to make some substantial gains.
Hopefully 20 years i enough time to make some substantial gains.
all thought out , Brunei/Delhi/Punjab/manchu can be revolution'ed when it is discovered , for the same BB price ...
peacing Japan in 1428 means you can still declare 4 holy ward on it , but the daimos OPM can be a serious nuisance
peacing Japan in 1428 means you can still declare 4 holy ward on it , but the daimos OPM can be a serious nuisance
Gone after 53 years...but the 5 points of ADM are worth the 1 DIP...btw, how much has your realm expanded during Anson's rule?
53 years is extremely impressive, like Clinton's 56 years. Are you running an elective monarchy by any chance?
A couple of long lived high DIP rulers, that's certainly huge. WE shouldn't be much of an issue under Benbow.
Just out of interest, why not engineer a Mali capital move into Kanem for 1 BB saved through reconquest annex (same thing with Hindustan earlier)? Do you find it cheesy or just not worth the extra war?
Just out of interest, why not engineer a Mali capital move into Kanem for 1 BB saved through reconquest annex (same thing with Hindustan earlier)? Do you find it cheesy or just not worth the extra war?
Haha Riga was in Livland and the Livonian Order was in Riga.
On a serious note, another amazing prawnstar AAR. My hat goes off to you sir, fantastic play!
On a serious note, another amazing prawnstar AAR. My hat goes off to you sir, fantastic play!
Very nice progress, too bad you won't be able to take all of Japan with Holy War.
Also a having the same ruler for 53 is pretty awazing in it self.
Also a having the same ruler for 53 is pretty awazing in it self.
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