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Thread: A Venice Divine Wind 5.1 AAR

  1. #521

    Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (13)

    Bohemia's stack is not that big, where are Venice's troops ? There are supposed to be 150k soldiers !

    Venice's troops don't pop up, but Augsburg troops have escaped to Italy.

    Well. Bohemia is meaning business in Italy.

    Some Venice troops appear. We might save Italy after all.

    Meanwhile, Zimbabwe, Luanda and Barwe defect to Tunisia.

    Lot of battles take place in Italy. Somehow we manage to push back Bohemia's main stack, but by January 1750 most provinces are occupied.

    The number are still against us and our allies are helpless. Fresh troops are sighted and will be in Italy soon.
    Therefore Venice accepts a crippling peace with Bohemia. Romagna, Treviso, Siena, Ferrara and Görz become Bohemian. No comment. But maybe there will be revolts in these provinces.

    Bavaria is white peaced soon after that. Now Venice income is 4100k a year. Well, a little good news, Curaco defects back to Venice.

    Meanwhile, Utewe defects to Tunisia.
    Well, a side effect of this war - WE is up again -to 16. Luckily, we have still 3 stability. But rebels start popping up again - in America. And some of them are colonist rebels.

    Venice declares war on Crimea. Map in August 1752.

    Verona defects to Sardinia.

    Well, a victory at last. Kaffa becomes Venetian.

    The situation in North America becomes dangerous.

    Venice annexes Moldavia. Pure genius !

    Loango and Mayumbe defect back to Venice. Colonist rebels are active in South America too.

    In January 1755, Albania declares independence. And this time, it won't be recovered.

    In October 1755, the first colony declares independence : Venezuela. Well, it is just a little island...

    Bone, in the Philippines, defects to Venezuela. They can do that ?
    In June 1756, Colombia declares independence. This country is bigger. It seems a new era has begun, and it is not looking good...

    In January 1757, Paraguay declares independence. Wait... does it mean that Venice is going to be at war with all these countries that declare independence ? Does it mean that War Exhaustion will not go down ? Does that mean - that we are screwed ?

  2. #522

    Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (14)

    In February 1757, it is Brazil who becomes independent.

    September 1757. Quebec.

    Loango defects to Sardinia. Two african provinces defect to Brazil in 1758.

    March 1758. La Plata.

    Peru.

    Haiti.

    Mayombe defects to Sardinia.

    July 1758. Louisiana.

    Our only hope are the peasant rebels who from time to time defect to Venice and become soldiers.

    February 1759. UPCA.

    South America. February 1759.

    There are Venetian troops left in North America, but they are way over their head and not acting in a efficient manner.

    Meanwhile, we have rebel problems in Italy as well and Naples declares war on us.

    But Naples is at war with Bohemia as well. Venice does have troops, but they are cowering in Friuli. At sea, Venice is still unchallanged.

    In 1759, Styria is also at war with Venice. But they are caught between Venice and her vassals.

    Diplomatic maps in September 1759


    In April 1760, Switzerland in a peace treaty demands that the vassalization of Naxos be cancelled. Naxos isn't Venice's vassal any more.

    Venice is at war with ... a lot of countries. Stability is -3. Wrong religion. 70k soldiers total. But still 314 ships.

    We switch to Mentese.
    There must a Venetian stack, here, hidden somewhere.
    Last edited by diegoami; 31-05-2012 at 21:31.

  3. #523
    Colonel Memento Mori's Avatar
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    I can almost hear a voice saying to the Doge at the end of his dream in 1821 "Only you can prevent this from happening. You are the chosen one."

    And Venice becomes a theocracy

  4. #524

    Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (15)

    War exhaustion is stable at 17. We may never get out of this rut. Hey, but Venice is too big to fail !

    In fact, a victory at last. Styria must cede Trent. It is not over yet, we can still win. Or at least survive.

    Well, I guess we will never have the highest yearly income again. Portugal and Great Britain are now richer.

    We have 70k soldiers and 300 ships. Ships are the only lasting legacy, it seems, since they do not suffer from attrition.

    The Mamluks declare war on Venice, but white peace soon. Naples concedes defeats. We lose Kaffa - well, I was sure we would be able to hold on to that province!

    In January 1762, Mexico declares independence. Oh, come on ! Give us a break !

    Wasn't here once all cyan ?

    In Italy, another rebel round starts and we are pretty helpless.

    I have to see this with my own eyes. Where are Venice's soldiers? I am sure I had spotted 40k soldiers in Friuli not long ago. Venice's soldiers are here...

    and here...

    and here...

    but not here. Now, what the hell ?

    Now what is that ? A bankruptcy, around a year before ! I missed that, I guess I removed too many message types from the notifications. Venice has gone bankrupt in March 1761. It is at this time that a little doubt creeps in and I begin to think that Venice may not win this game.

    Well Venice's income is now ... the 6th best. Well, if it was 1400, I would be content.

    Back to Mentese, reloading the same game. We do not want to interfere. We check how many times Venice bankrupted. As far as we can tell from the inflation graph, only once.

    Savoy declares war on Venice, but whitepeaces soon. In September 1764, Venice's income is ....

    hey, where is Venice ? Scroll down... the 18th best in the game. Well, still in the upper half, I guess. But still 285 ships !

    Probably because there is hardly a Venetian province which is not occupied, in the new and old world.



  5. #525

    Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (16)

    The American countries are now building ships, but they are still no match for Venice's fleet.

    Switzerland declares war. Venice 32k troops in 1766. In May 1766, Chile declares independence.

    In July 1766, Venice, that is Württemberg, has to cede Konstanz to Switzerland. The dismantling of the vassals has begun, I am afraid.

    In the same month, Urbino declares independence. It is not the first time, but it might be the last.

    Konian defects to Brazil. Portugal declares war on Great Britain.
    In February 1767, we notice a new country in North America, Canada.

    In April 1767, Ferrara declares independence from Bohemia. Menabe defects to La Plata. Cameroon and Gabon defect back to Venice.
    In January 1768, the USA declare independence. Including Cuba and Bermuda.

    In June 1768, Mantua annexes Ferrara.

    Soon after that, Mantua declares war on Venice. In August 1768, Quebec and Venice peace. Quebec is at war with Louisiana and USA.

    In October 1768, Corfu is annexed by the Ottomans. Not sure exactly when we lost it. And In November 1768, Treviso defects back to Venice! We now have some troops there, it is the patriots who turned soldiers ! Venice's spirit is not dead.

    Mantua and Venice peace in April 1769. Lesser Namaqual defects to Brazil. Venice is now making 1000 ducats a year.
    Naples declares war on Venice and whitepeaces soon.
    Flores, Sumbawa, Sula and Visayas defect to Canada.

    In May 1773 Honduras defects to USA.

    In April 1774, Mahe and Diego Garcia defect to La Plata.

    Mantua declares war on Venice. In May 1774, the Canarias defect to Venezuela.

    Venice has 415 ducats a month, 50k soldiers and 150 ships. We have a colony in New Zealand, we did not know that.

    In June 1775, Gorz defects to Venice. We might build back a viable country.

    Santo Amaro defects to Brazil. Panama defects to Colombia. Bohemia declares war on Venice.

    In Italy we are losing control again.

    Ontario defects to Canada. Situation in North America in November 1776.

    Seneca defects to Louisiana. Meanwhile Bohemia occupies all our vassals north of the Alps.

    Magdalena defects to Colombia. Sant Martin defects to Venezuela. Portugal declares war on Venice !
    Huastec defects to Mexico.
    Other states declare war. Styria, Baluchistan, Syria, Muscowy, Persia, Bihar declare war on Venice. Just a normal day in the office.

  6. #526
    Thank you for the feedback everybody, don't worry, the nightmare will be soon over and it will fit in the story.

  7. #527

    Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (17)

    Tlaxcala defects to Mexico. While the situation in Italy is dire...

    We show off our navy in the Adriatic.

    Well, we are not observer any longer. Pommerania is seiging Mentese after destroying our garrison.

    Concho defects to Louisiana. Great Namaquala to Brazil. Venice peaces Bohemia and cedes two provinces in Hungary.

    Tlapanec defects to Mexico. Damaraland to Brazil.

    Huichol defects to Lousiana. Switzerland declares war. Antalya is now occupied by Portugal.
    Now it is Urbino, Portugal, Switzerland, Ulm and Ansbach who are attacking Venice & Vassals.

    Cape Verde defects to Mexico. Spain declares war.

    Switzerland whitepeaces. We accept peace with Portugal and we cede Vizcaya (Navarra) and Treviso.


    Venice is now making 371 ducats a year. No idea what just happened. Venice has now... 12 ships ! Did Portugal sink our outdated ships?

    Game Over. Now the American countries can sail unhindered to Europe.
    Taiwan defects to Canada.

    The wars drag on. Urbino and Bosnia are occupying our provinces in Italy.

    The Ottomans declare war. We switch to Transylvania, it seems safer. Atikamekw defects to the USA.

    South America and Europe in 1783


    Damaraland defects back to Venice. Jamaica defects to Colombia. Well, we are not safer as Transylvania as well. We are at war with Moldavia...

    Great Britain declares war on Venice. Spain had white peaced at some time. Sao Vicente defects to La Plata. Rio Grande to Brazil. Tucujulandia to Mexico. USA declare war.
    Stadacona defects to USA.

    Bohemia and Bavaria declare war

    Mantua declares war. Barbados defects to Mexico. Salish to Canada. Rio de Janeiro and Sao Tome to Brazil. The occupiers change but not the situation.

    Cayenne defects to Mexico. Venice accepts peace with Great Britain and cedes several provinces in Africa.

  8. #528

    Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (18)

    Venice accepts peace with Bohemia and cedes Pecs.

    Peace with Mantua. Somehow, Transylvania stops being a vassal of Venice. We go back to Mentese.
    Tierra del Fuego defects to Chile. The situation stalls while virtually all of our provinces are occupied but peace cannot be reached.
    In November 1791, Corsica defects to Mexico.

    Delagoa Bay defects back to Venice.

    Venice has 27k soldiers and is making 266 ducats a year. Cumana and Esequibo defect to Haiti. Grao Para defects to Mexico.

    Sayultecas defects to Mexico. North America, May 1794.

    Wars come and go. Switzerland, Mantua, doesn't make any difference since the provinces are occupied.

    Mozambique defects to the USA. Antigua to Venezuela. Cagayan, Manila and Cameroon to Mexico.

    In June 1799, Venezia defects to Venezuela.

    I repeat, in June 1799, Venezia defects to Venezuela.

    I have to see it again. Firenze is now the capital.

    That was too much for the doge. He woke up.
    But not for us. As Mentese and then as Deccan, after Mentese's collapse and integration into the Ottoman empire, we finish the game.

    As Venice, we see there is only 1 unoccupied province. In Europe, only Brescia, Görz and Moldavia are left - occupied in never ending wars.

    Africa. Most provinces defected to Mexico.

    North America. A Venetian North America has survived - occupied.

    South America

    and Asia. Three provinces here too - occupied.

    Austria, Augsburg, Navarra, Hungary and Deccan are still our allies.
    Mexico, the country who stole many of our provinces, isn't in a good condition either.

    Haiti is more interesting.

    World map.

    Couldn't help it - I converted it to Victoria 2. Well, I guess Venice didn't win the game But it survived. The provinces, who were occupied at the end of the game, are just normal, free provinces, I think.

    Don't worry, I won't play it. I am not that masochist.

  9. #529
    Colonel Memento Mori's Avatar
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    This was the single most awesome experiment that I have seen And I hope that some masochist with Victoria will get your save and make an aar about regaining Venice's rightful empire. Hell, that would be even more epic then the Byzantine aars!

  10. #530
    Colonel vasziljevics's Avatar
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    it's a shame PrawnStar is not involved in Vicky2 AARs - he would do a WC with that broken Venice anyways

  11. #531
    Thank you for your feedback, Memento Mori and vasziljevics.
    Save files are here : EU3 and VIC2, using the Converter Mod.
    I made a test run ( as Deccan ) and while Venice is definitely playable, in the first year of the game it is already at war with Great Britain, Styria, Louisiana, Canada and Bulgaria. One twist is that Venice has cores all over America - the challenge would be recover all provinces who have a Lombard culture.

    Options :
    • Someone in this forum accepts the challenge
    • I create a thread in the VIC 2 forum and offer this game as a challenge.
    • I create a mini AAR in VIC 2 and follow Venice as Deccan - most likely, it isn't going to survive, but it will be entertaining.



    I am not experienced in VIC 2, so playing myself is not an option and it would be too time-intensive. I would rather finish this game in EU3 and then maybe port it to VIC 2.

    I am going back to the story now
    Last edited by diegoami; 01-06-2012 at 20:52.

  12. #532
    VENEZUELA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cried the doge. The doge woke up in the middle of night, crying. The servants were alarmed and came into the room.
    "Venezia has defected to Venezuela!" he shouted. His servants were speechless. Slowly, Mose' Moro, the doge, recovered.
    "What year is it? WHAT YEAR IS IT?" He asked. "1612", answered on of the servants. "It is the 4th October 1612".
    The doge understood it had been a nightmare, although a very vivid one. He excused the servants. He thought to himself for a couple of minutes, but being a man of action, he grabbed a pen and some papers and wrote down his nightmare. All the details were there.
    It took him several hours. When he was finished, it was already morning, and he went to Venice's main cathedral, where he knew he would meet the Cardinal Alvise, whom he had known since he was a child. He used to go to him when he needed spiritual advice. And now he definitely needed it. He took the manuscript with himself.
    The cardinal wasn't busy, and led him into his cabinet. And then he listened attenctively to the nightmare. After a long pause, he asked "So? It was just a nightmare!".
    "But it was so detailed and realistic. And the events in it could actually happen if.... ". He did not dare to go on. "...if God stopped being at our side" - finished the Cardinal.
    "I understand what you mean" - continued the Cardinal. "The Venetian empire - all of our success - comes from God. Why is Venice so lucky ? An angel is protecting Venice. Your nightmare came from that angel".
    Mose' Moro was confused. "Tell me - I heard you are planning further expansion. Don't you think you should consolidate your gains ? A day could come - when the angel would not be protecting Venice any more. For real. And you know we are not prepared. Or maybe, the angel may put in less effort - and lead to similar results as in your nightmare".
    "I don't understand. What should we do then ?" replied the doge.
    "You wrote down your nightmare ? Good. Leave me the manuscript, and come back tomorrow. I'll tell you what you should do. But I warn you - you won't like it. And it won't be one thing - it will be many things that you will have to do. Many unpleasant things. But necessary."



  13. #533
    Lt. General Kurblius's Avatar
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    Not as Horrifying in my experience

    I've been playing a Venice game for months and your AAR was too painful for me to read completely. However, because I actually enjoy pain if it's self-inflicted, I decided to try it out on my own game. To my surprise, it wasn't nearly as bad as in your Venice. I watched as Naxos until the game froze about 50 years later. I only lost 4 provinces in Europe and I still have more than a dozen CoTs. Mexico and the Carribbean were overun with particularist rebels, and China, Arabia, and Japan were in the process of being effectively lost. However India remained fully intact, as was South America and most of Africa. Things that helped was continuity in the provinces, and stationing troops in discontinuous provinces before giving them to the AI since the AI will mostly leave them where they are (the AI clearly doesn't know how to use transports). It is quite frustrating however to see a Venetian doomstack of 44 000 sitting next to a rebel force of 8, and have the doomstack do nothing even after the province defects. I mean what the hell...

    This is the game I was playing with:


    I'd upload a saved game if anyone could tell me the best way of doing it. Basically, my point is, the disintigration of an empire if given to the AI isn't a sure thing.
    Last edited by Kurblius; 01-06-2012 at 23:52.
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  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurblius View Post
    I've been playing a Venice game for months and your AAR was too painful for me to read completely. However, because I actually enjoy pain if it's self-inflicted, I decided to try it out on my own game. To my surprise, it wasn't nearly as bad as in your Venice. I watched as Naxos until the game froze about 50 years later. I only lost 4 provinces in Europe and I still have more than a dozen CoTs. Mexico and the Carribbean were overun with particularist rebels, and China, Arabia, and Japan were in the process of being effectively lost. However India remained fully intact, as was South America and most of Africa. Things that helped was continuity in the provinces, and stationing troops in discontinuous provinces before giving them to the AI since the AI will mostly leave them where they are (the AI clearly doesn't know how to use transports). It is quite frustrating however to see a Venetian doomstack of 44 000 sitting next to a rebel force of 8, and have the doomstack do nothing even after the province defects. I mean what the hell...

    This is the game I was playing with:


    I'd upload a saved game if anyone could tell me the best way of doing it. Basically, my point is, the disintigration of an empire if given to the AI isn't a sure thing.
    Interesting. Though 50 years is not much, I would be more convinced if you let the AI play for 200 years like I did. After 50 years my Venice wasn't that bad either. But I agree that my empire wasn't AI compatible, we'll change that...
    I don't know where you could upload, I have my own site...

  15. #535
    Ok, we are going to see a change of rules, right ? Don't tell me that you are going to follow Memento Mori post and go Theo

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Rolo View Post
    Ok, we are going to see a change of rules, right ? Don't tell me that you are going to follow Memento Mori post and go Theo
    Nooo, not a change of rule. Rather a change of philosophy. But the story will tell.

  17. #537
    Colonel Memento Mori's Avatar
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    Heh, I actually thought for a second that you were going to become an archbishopric, kill off the Papal States to become it... and form the Kingdom of God

    But as it is, I can't wait to see what will happen!

  18. #538
    Venezia defects to Venezuela? It's a very nice twist by the game!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela#Etymology

  19. #539

    1612-1614 : The annexation of Cyprus

    The cardinal Alvise was a very educated person. He was also a philosopher, a phisician, an ambassador. He knew the ways of the world.
    When the doge came to him on the next day, he was waiting for him in front of the cathedral.
    "We have work to do - I am coming with you" - he said. The went into the the Doge's office. Cardinal Alvise requested a map of China.

    "What countries can be formed in China ? " - the Cardinal asked. Doge Mose replied : " Well, Wu, Xia and Qin".
    Good. Now, do me a favour and in the next war with the Ming try and grab as many cores as possible for these countries.
    But there is two things that have to be done. I want you to release Georgia. We have all the cores for that country.
    One thing that I learnt reading your manuscript - vassals never betray you. And you know there are other benefits in releasing vassals. Do it!

    Georgia was released. The doge noticed that this way 10 infamy was lost. Not bad. This had the side effect that some territories in the Caucasus became overseas, because obviously even vassals "block" the connection to the territory. But it also meant that there would not be "overextension" if a low adminstration doge were elected - maybe.
    "Now, the next thing I want you to do is this - diploannex Siena". We need to form Italy. And don't tell me Rome must be left to the Pope. We, as Papal Controller and strongest catholic country, need to do what is necessary to become as strong as possible and spread the Catholic faith.
    And I want you to reorganize your fleets and your armies. They are a mess. Do you know what I mean ?"
    "I think so". The cardinal went back to the cathedral.
    In the next months, the doge Moro renamed the armies and the fleets according the their task and composition. "SSS" where siege armies, "A" where main armies, "FF" where support armies, "DDDD" where defensive armies. "CC" where battle fleets, "T" where transport fleets, "PPP" where patrol fleets, "EEE" where patrols stationed in ports, "GGGG" where guarding fleets and "KKK" where kamikaze fleets.
    There would be less fleets and the occasional pirate would be accepted - but he knew that otherwise it would be difficult to keep track of the fleets and the angel could get angry. The angel was confused by the fleets stationed in the ports who had only one ship and they had to go.
    Maybe it wasn't perfect, but life was a learning experience. Barques had also to be replaced with Early Frigates, in the long term, so losing Barques was not a bad thing.
    He had a look at the world after releasing Georgia.

    And God was happy, obviously. A Saint performed a miracle and Venice got even more narrowminded. But reorganizing the fleets was not easy and pirates appeared. Adjusting to this new schema took some months, and pirates became a way of life. They gave also navy tradition.

    Meanwhile, Sarai was converted and God gave us a new mission - build a Fine Art Academy in Uteve. In March 1613 the Doge commissioned it.

    In the same month, Siena was annexed.

    Regrettably, the pirates problem was still there. The doge was wondering whether this fleet reorganization made any sense at all. But the cardinal had told him that the angel was very busy and taking care of Venice's business wasn't his main task in life - it was just a game for him. The Doge Moro couldn't fathom that there could be more important matters that taking care of Venice's empire.
    The cardinal Alvise even told him that the angel also liked to experiment - fancy that !

    In January 1614, the hordes reappeared at the border. Colonization could resume.

    In January 1614, war on Cyprus was declared. Regrettably, France joined the war as well. Maybe it wasn't really a bad thing, though.

    In March 1614, after taking our first province from the Golden Horde, we found out that we couldn't send colonists there. Another side effect of releasing Georgia.

    So, as some territories had in the meantime cored, the doge decided he would get a land connection to the Caucasus after all. Meanwhile France was invading our ally Aragon, but Navarra and Aragon would be able to hold for some time.

    France was about to annex our allies Nevers and Armagnac. It was necessary to act against that - quickly.

    Revolts were supported in France.
    In March 1614, war was declared on Iraq and Haasa. We wanted to cut through Irak to our other Caucasus province, and also through the Haasa, to try and connect the Mecca to our other territories. The Doge kept rereading his manuscript and going through his nightmare all the time - Mecca was one of the first provinces who were lost in his nightmare.

    Cyprus was taken, and as the Doge was about to annex it, he found out that the Casus Belli "Cleansing of Heresy" didn't make him get any Infamy discount - Venice would get 8 infamy. But Venice had 0 infamy, also because of releasing Georgia - the doge Moro was slowly beginning to understand his logic. So Cyprus was annexed in April 1614. A COT was well worth 8 infamy.

    But the doge was still baffled at this new "patroling" policy and was annoyed at the pirates. He had already reached for a compromise and placed frigate fleets in the most important areas.

    Another advice from the cardinal - stop building and use magistrates to get decent advisors. So he hired an ambassador.

    The Irak armi was defeated in Van and then routed.

    As the Aragon engaged the French in Roussillon, we sent there reenforcements.

    In June 1614, as an effect of placing merchant in Cyprus, the "Trading in Grain" bonus came back. So we would be not over the force limit.

    And in the same month, the first French stack was routed in Roussillon.
    Last edited by diegoami; 02-06-2012 at 13:02.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by panormo View Post
    Venezia defects to Venezuela? It's a very nice twist by the game!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela#Etymology
    Nice, did not know that.

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