A Venice Divine Wind 5.1 AAR

[Chief Ragusa]

I like how you are using the colonising missions to generate the colonists for you for the next mission.

Oh that cash event can be for a whole lot more. I wish there was a conquer caribbean mission. From the looks of it, your infamy would stand 3 or 4 points each from Trindad and the Bahamas. You have cores on Byzantine and Styrian territory and had to rescue the Byzantine army in your last war. No doubt you'll be waiting for an intergate mission for each of them. Your core against Naples, though, is one you could soon press. The Netherlands is really eating up the Horde.If they continue with an eastern policy, they could end up having the opportunity to form Russia. How did they get a border with the Horde in the first place?

That war with Spain and Portugal looked a darn sight easier that the first one. Spain still has a lot of territory in Africa though and it looks like you;ll have a lot of wars to take that off them.

You have an Explorer and after he's discovered the Hudson Bay, he could go and uncover St Helena's port for you.

[Ricardo Rolo]

He already uncovered St Helena harbour ( in fact he hired the explorer for that and then he gone north )

About the Netherlands Horde issue: I assume they ( or Holland ) got into a war with the Teutonic Order while the Horde was also pushing the direction of the Baltic. Netherlands ( or Holland ) grabs a Teutonic province that borders the horde and ... the rest is what we see. The fact that diegoami bashed some of the usual GH eaters ( Austria, Hungary, OE, Bohemia ) + not eating it himself ( the vassal issue prevented him of doing so even if he wanted to ) also helped Atleast is what I assume to have happened based on the last maps on the Russian area. And you don't need to have Russian as primary culture to form Russia ? :/

Oh and I know that the cash events can be far bigger ( currently running a game with Vij/Hindustan ( really yuck colour ) ). Just pointing that in other contexts, there would be blood about this

[vasziljevics]

Civ4 random events are just kinda annoying you know...

and I promise I will try not to start historical lessons in AARs from now on

[Ricardo Rolo]

Yeah I know But to not clutter this thread with OT ( as a fellow mod, even if from elsewhere ... ) , I'll just point to my already posted opinions on the subject: just got to Civfanatics and search for post on random events by r_rolo1 ( moi meme )

Back on the game and @ diegoami: how are you going to move east ? Via Mutapa + hop into India using Holy way ? Via Judea + Syria and eat through Iraq/Persia ? Just good ol'fashion island nitpicking in Indonesia and then work from there ?

[Chief Ragusa]

Oh, now you mention it, the use of an explorer to uncover St Helena's port was explained in a previous post. The Netherlands would need to move their capital to a russian province, culture shift to make Russian their primary culture and have taken the right provinces necessary to form Russia. I see the Netherlands already existing in a 10 Feb 1433 screenshot owning Warmia, which the Horde must have reached. The actions ot Netherland AI will make an interesting subplot.

Given your House rule about infamy, the taking of Trinidad and Bahamas would need two wars to acquire set far enough apart to eat up the infamy form the first province.

[Ricardo Rolo]

He might do a embassy in either/both Slavonia/Osijek to cut the interval time, but yes, will be hard to get a suitable CB for getting those provinces with reduced infamy unless Spain goes Protestant/Reformed or if he can adopt a governement that allows Imperialism CBs ( diegoami, can you adopt Republican Dictatorship or Rev Republic BTW ? Obviously the rev Empire, the Enlightened Despotism and the Abs. Monarchy are clearly out, but the first two are not clear by the ruleset in the OP ) or Rev. Wars ( that are far far into the future )

P.S I've located that screen on Netherlands owning Warmia ... another screen in the same post shows them near 1428 in war with a bunch of eastern powers ... maybe it was then ?

P.S II Looking back even more, it looks that it was before than 1422, when it was still Holland ( see the border outline in pic #16 ,the last one ). It was surely a war vs the Teutonic Knights .. a alliance with Denmark/Sweden ?

[diegoami]

Hi everybody, thank you for the feeback

Ricardo Rolo : My mother tongue is Italian, I was actually born not far from Venice. But I am pretty sure the right spelling is Maurician, they are named after Maurice de Nassau, as vasziljevics pointed out.
I am reaching the East by sea, and I will use the DoTF title - now Spain has low prestige and should not be able to steal it from me.
The fort 2 in Cartagena has been built, I got another "Colonize" mission.

Chief Ragusa : I haven't really been watching the Netherlands, but I'll have a look at the older save file and post some screenshots.
I am interested in Spain's other provinces in Egypt, I will probably let them keep the Subsaharan ones. Trinidad and Bahamas are not worth the trouble IMHO.
I will relax my infamy rule (and other rules) as soon (and if) Italy is formed.

[Ricardo Rolo]

It is Mauritian because of the pseudo-latin for Maurice ( Mauritius ) from where the name is derived in English :/ Or atleast it was what I was taught

DoTF ? Will see how it goes ( taking notes )

[diegoami]

In January 1410, Holland was a just small trading nation, with 2 provinces.

But as part of an anti-Teutonic coalition, it was occupying the Osel province.

In August 1411, the province Osel had become part of Holland.

In February 1414, the Dutch Reconquest of Friesland was in progress.

In July 1414, Friesland had been annexed by Holland. But the country was still at war with Oldenburg, among others.

In May 1415, Oldenburg had been annexed by Holland as well.

In January 1417, the war was not over yet, and Utrecht had joined the anti-Holland coalition.

In August 1417, Holland is in the war of Reconquest of Gelre. Gelre has already been annexed...

While Utrecht is a vassal.

The war isn't over in October 1419, and Holland has taken the war to the Teutonic Order.

In July 1421, the war is over and the province of Warmia has been ceded to Holland. But Oldenburg is lost, probably because of rebels.

In June 1423, Holland is at war with Novgorod, It is the War of Dutch Aggression. It is not obvious why it started.

But it is obvious that Novgorod has a Horde problem and cannot fight two wars.

In November 1425, the province of Ingermanland belongs to Holland.

In May 1427, the Netherlands has been formed. Utrecht belongs to the Netherlands as well.

In 1428, Oldenburg is reconquered.

[Ricardo Rolo]

My instincts were correct, I guess Aliance with Sweden/Denmark brought them to the baltic and the rest is history

P.S In the penultimate line , it is the Netherlands, not Holland

[diegoami]

My instincts were correct, I guess Aliance with Sweden/Denmark brought them to the baltic and the rest is history

P.S In the penultimate line , it is the Netherlands, not Holland

Thx. Wait, it is not as straightforward as it seems...

[diegoami]

In 1440 - 1441, Holland suffers a major setback. The province is Gelre is lost to Burgundy, in a short war that lasted only 0 years according to the log.
In February 1441, it was at war with the Hansa that was occupying most provinces.

In June 1441, Ingermanland was about to fall.

In December 1441, Ingermanland belongs to the Hansa.

After that, another war against Münster. We are in December 1441.

In January 1443, the war is over, but Oldenburg had to be released.

In February 1453, the Netherlands are at war again. This time it is the reconquest of Estland.


During this war, Warmia is occupied by Denmark.

In August 1453, Warmia is lost and belongs to Denmark. The Netherlands owns just 4 provinces.

In July 1459, the Netherlands are in the Reconquest of Osnabrück. They have annexed Münster and are active in Hesse.

But Brandenburg's intervention sets them back.

In May 1462, the war is over. The Netherlands have lost another province, Friesland. They just have three provinces now.

But in June 1464, the Netherlands are still at war. A small stack is sent to the Teutonic Order, which is just an OPM now.

The Netherland's army is pathetic by now.

In October 1464, OstPreussen belongs to the Netherlands.

In July 1470, the Netherlands are trying the second reconquest of Osnabrück.

At the end of this war, the Netherlands have reconquered Friesland and Osnabrück

In April 1473, the Netherlands get a core on Trakai and start the reconquest of Trakai.

In September 1473, Trakai has been conquered.

[Memento Mori]

The second post should be named "The fall of Netherlands (2)", unless you are planning "The rise of Netherlands (3)"...

On a related note, I love how the AI manages to go from a minor to a world power. I once had a game in which Mecklemburg managed to form Germany without my help, and actually despite a few wars with me

[diegoami]

The second post should be named "The fall of Netherlands (2)", unless you are planning "The rise of Netherlands (3)"...

On a related note, I love how the AI manages to go from a minor to a world power. I once had a game in which Mecklemburg managed to form Germany without my help, and actually despite a few wars with me

Yes, I find it interesting myself. It is good that I kept the save files so I can now reconstruct how they managed to reach world power status...

[diegoami]

In September 1473, the Netherlands are involved in the Dutch reconquest of Oldenburg.

During this war, they lose Ostpreussen.

In March 1475, the situation in Holland is unclear.

But the war ends with status quo. But Ostpreussen has been lost.

In July 1478, Netherlands is the defender in the Danish Reconquest of Preussen. Probably Ostpreussen was in the Netherlands's sphere of influence.

In the mainland, the Dutch are invading Utrecht.

While a small stack is invading Denmark's and Finland's provinces in the Baltics.

In May 1479, Estland, Pskov and Utrecht have become Dutch. The Netherlands owns 9 provinces.

Many years pass. In 1491, The Netherland try another reconquest in Oldenburg and are at war with the Hansa and Lithuania.

By Janaury 1493, it is clear that they won't be able to conquer Oldenburg and in the Netherlands it looks like a draw.

But in the Baltics, the Dutch manage to overcome Lithuania.

In February 1494, the war has ended, and Lithuania has ceased to exist. All their provinces now belong to the Dutch. But Oldenburg hasn't been conquered.

But the Netherlands are at war again. This time, it is the 2nd Dutch Reconquest of Gelre.

It is obvious that "Holland" has no chance against the Netherlands.

By October 1495, Holland has been annexed.

So in October 1495, the Netherlands have 15 provinces. But they are still at war with the TO.

In fact, in the east, the situation is not clear.

But by June 1496, a major Dutch stack has popped up.

In August 1496, the war is over. Danzig belongs to the Netherlands, and Warmia to Poland.

[gremlok]

Is France a OPM in 1495?

[diegoami]

Is France a OPM in 1495?

Yes, it is, it gets completely globbed by Great Britain.

[Malurous]

This look at the Netherlands is very interesting. It's funny how long they kept going up and down, and that most of those Baltic gains resulted from simple wars for provinces in the Netherlands region.

As far as Venice goes, well done throwing the Iberians out of continental America. I also like the move to remove the last Cherokee coastline, leaving you to conquer them at your leisure instead of having to worry about other Europeans moving in.

[diegoami]

This look at the Netherlands is very interesting. It's funny how long they kept going up and down, and that most of those Baltic gains resulted from simple wars for provinces in the Netherlands region.

As far as Venice goes, well done throwing the Iberians out of continental America. I also like the move to remove the last Cherokee coastline, leaving you to conquer them at your leisure instead of having to worry about other Europeans moving in.

Thank you. It is also funny that they seemed to live in a different world from Venice most of the time.

[diegoami]

In January 1507, the Dutch have started the Reconquest of Volhynia.

The war does not seem to go well for Netherlands. By January 1507, the war score is at -9%

In June 1507, it is at -10%

In November 1507, it is at -15%

May 1508, Wenden is recovered, but we are still at -12%

In October 1508, The Netherlands's main stack, after liberating Wenden, Pskov and probably killing some minor stack on the way, is engaging one Polish stack in Ösel.

In May 1509, the war has turned. Holland has killed Poland's stacks and recovered the occupied provinces.

In August 1509, it is seiging Warmia.

By April 1510, Ostpreussen and Warmia belong to the Dutch, while Vilna and Grodno are occupied by the Polish.

Mecklemburg has also fallen and belongs to the Dutch,

In May 1510, the Netherlands have taken Memel, Hinterpommern and Torun as well. War score is now at 28%. But a Polish stack sits unchallenged in Wenden.

In August 1510, Poland and The Netherlands are at peace again. The Netherlands have achieved their war goal, Volhynia, on which they have a core. They now have also a border with the Golden Horde.